Cold weather and electric cars

[tmo]

The fast charging thing is only going to be in certain well populate areas. The problem is there are alot of places that people travel like myself that you drive long distances and might have access to a couple of gas stations. There will definitely not be any fast charge stations and be lucky to charge anything.

 

Then in places like where I live there are people that live with no power and have to travel hours to get to power.

 

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That’s not true. There are’s Tesla super chargers all over the nation. And most people charge at home so there is no point in driving “hours to get to power” people with electric cars typically only charge at super stations when traveling. If people are traveling hours to get electricity they aren’t doing it right. Plus you can plug into a dryer plug and it’s level 2 which is 30-40ish miles per hour charge rate.

[Bash74]

That’s not true. There are’s Tesla super chargers all over the nation. And most people charge at home so there is no point in driving “hours to get to power” people with electric cars typically only charge at super stations when traveling. If people are traveling hours to get electricity they aren’t doing it right. Plus you can plug into a dryer plug and it’s level 2 which is 30-40ish miles per hour charge rate.

There is one Tesla charger in my entire state. It is also the largest state in the country. You can drive for hours and hours never find a single place to plug in. Ontop of that the cold lessons the distance on a charge. I will stick with the reliable.

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[Donstar]

The momentum to have us all driving EV's is well underway.  The infrastructure will grow with the increases in demand for fast chargers, greater driving range etc. I'm looking forward to the switch.  The issue I see is there will likely come a point where our gas powered trade-ins will not have a trade-in value.  But, on the other hand, there will probably be some great sales on the last remaining stock of gas vehicles!  I remember when they were phasing out leaded gas and there was huge worry about rendering older vehicles in trouble.  Leaded additives and/or engine modifications became easily available.  I'm waiting for gas to electric conversion companies to become viable!

Edited March 14, 2021 by Donstar

[LDM]

On 3/3/2021 at 8:06 PM, Bash74 said:

The fast charging thing is only going to be in certain well populate areas. The problem is there are alot of places that people travel like myself that you drive long distances and might have access to a couple of gas stations. There will definitely not be any fast charge stations and be lucky to charge anything.

Then in places like where I live there are people that live with no power and have to travel hours to get to power.

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Yeah, there isn't much in the way of fast chargers where I live either.  There is one about 20 minutes away but there are only 4 chargers there in and area with over 140K people.  Definitely going to be an issue when more than a tiny fraction of a percent own electric cars.

 

The next closest one is hundred of miles away.  So you pretty much will have to charge at home every night and never use it for anything but the daily commute.  I'm not even going to get into the issue of replacing a truck that is used all day for work or towing.

[Bash74]

The momentum to have us all driving EV's is well underway.  The infrastructure will grow with the increases in demand for fast chargers, greater driving range etc. I'm looking forward to the switch.  The issue I see is there will likely come a point where our gas powered trade-ins will not have a trade-in value.  But, on the other hand, there will probably be some great sales on the last remaining stock of gas vehicles!  I remember when they were phasing out leaded gas and there was huge worry about rendering older vehicles in trouble.  Leaded additives and/or engine modifications became easily available.  I'm waiting for gas to electric conversion companies to become viable!

It's not just the infrastructure growing. It's that the infrastructure for power needed will be inadequate. It will not be adequate for at a minimum another 20yrs in my opinion. Then with the push for clean energy it makes it even worse. States already have power issues in high heat and cold times. Then in places like where I live a lot of people can't even get power to where they live so they are off the grid. Combustion engine vehicles will be around for a long time to come. I have a vehicle that runs on propane and I see that as a better thing to move to.

 

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[KARNUT]

I imagine like anything else over time. The technology will change to either smaller batteries for quick change or much longer range. And faster charging. What is puzzling is the overall electrical grid for support. I remember gladly pay 700$ for a VCR, 3500$ for that big dish in my yard. Marveling at the fact I’m typing this on my iPhone sitting on the couch. A device that is this small. That has a battery that last all day. The only thing I can think that can disrupt electric vehicles is. The continued evolution of combustion engines. And the potential for future discovery of oil and gas. I read somewhere the thinking is it a renewable resource. Not just fossil fuel.

 

 

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[Donstar]

I agree that the work on how we consume, generate and transmit electricity will need continued and considerable development.  Demand will fuel the speed.  

[Grumpy Bear]

There's more at play. Super-Chargers require a subscription. One that can be canceled without refund. There is nearly zero repair parts. The part that the manufactures and government like is that it is really hard to modify one for more power. End of the aftermarket. If one gets into a fender bender, even if air bags do not deploy...totaled for a few thousand in bumpers or a door. You think insurance is high now? I'm starting to think this isn't about fossil vs electric as much as it is about control over EVERYTHING, cradle to grave. 

[Bash74]

Just wait till mainstream hacking starts with the EVs. Its just a computer on wheels.

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[tmo]

There's more at play. Super-Chargers require a subscription. One that can be canceled without refund. There is nearly zero repair parts. The part that the manufactures and government like is that it is really hard to modify one for more power. End of the aftermarket. If one gets into a fender bender, even if air bags do not deploy...totaled for a few thousand in bumpers or a door. You think insurance is high now? I'm starting to think this isn't about fossil vs electric as much as it is about control over EVERYTHING, cradle to grave. 

Why do you say they are more expensive to repair? The only reason they are more expensive to repair CURRENTLY is because Tesla makes the only “mass market” EV and they are backed up months in orders because they can’t make them as fast as they sell them. Meaning, you can’t get Parts making individual parts more expensive and extremely slow to get. You are a very knowledgeable guy, I know, I’ve read lots of your posts. You should understand this. Besides drivetrain all is the same even down to the 12 volt battery. Just my .02 not that anyone asked lol.

[Grumpy Bear]

51 minutes ago, tmo said:

Why do you say they are more expensive to repair? The only reason they are more expensive to repair CURRENTLY is because Tesla makes the only “mass market” EV and they are backed up months in orders because they can’t make them as fast as they sell them. Meaning, you can’t get Parts making individual parts more expensive and extremely slow to get. You are a very knowledgeable guy, I know, I’ve read lots of your posts. You should understand this. Besides drivetrain all is the same even down to the 12 volt battery. Just my .02 not that anyone asked lol.

When a manufacture makes a car they also are on the hook for repair parts for ten years. If that means they make fewer cars then that's what it means. But isn't what this guy is up to. He's into control. Total control. 

[Bash74]

Why do you say they are more expensive to repair? The only reason they are more expensive to repair CURRENTLY is because Tesla makes the only “mass market” EV and they are backed up months in orders because they can’t make them as fast as they sell them. Meaning, you can’t get Parts making individual parts more expensive and extremely slow to get. You are a very knowledgeable guy, I know, I’ve read lots of your posts. You should understand this. Besides drivetrain all is the same even down to the 12 volt battery. Just my .02 not that anyone asked lol.

They will still be expensive to repair regardless if there are other mass market ev makers. They will continue to make parts expensive. Then when someone comes up with non oem parts they will just pull an Apple move and basically disable the car because of a non oem part being used. They will use safety as an argument. It will hold up because lobbyist will make sure it does. Also authorized repair shops will charge a fortune because they will have to spend fortune to become authorized and stay authorized. Other EV makers will follow the same path. It is about control and money and is just going to get worse.

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[Black02Silverado]

I Googled Tesla charging locations.  Surprised to see where some of them are located.  Sheetz, a local gas station convenient mart is installing them.  Smart on their part.

 

https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bounds=40.49623283900731%2C-78.53486782031251%2C40.01938739289878%2C-79.85322719531251&zoom=11&filters=store%2Cservice%2Csupercharger%2Cdestination charger

[Silverado4x4]

Charging stations charge about 23 bucks to go around 250 miles so roughly a dollar a mile. Depending on what level charging station it can take around 30-60 minutes to charge now who in the hell wants to sit there for 30-60 minutes while your vehicle charges to go 250 miles and hope the stations are not all used.

 

What happens when the vehicle is about 3-4 years old and the battery is getting weak and wont accept a full charge as all batteries do this. Searched this ,It Costs Nearly $16,000 to Replace a Tesla Model 3 Battery Pack,  WOW.

[1454]

Charging stations charge about 23 bucks to go around 250 miles so roughly a dollar a mile. Depending on what level charging station it can take around 30-60 minutes to charge now who in the hell wants to sit there for 30-60 minutes while your vehicle charges to go 250 miles and hope the stations are not all used.
 
What happens when the vehicle is about 3-4 years old and the battery is getting weak and wont accept a full charge as all batteries do this. Searched this ,It Costs Nearly $16,000 to Replace a Tesla Model 3 Battery Pack,  WOW.

Until fast charging can deliver 400 miles of charge in 10 minutes, it's not ready for primetime if you travel. Honestly, more should be done in the hybrid arena. You can cover most peoples usage with a PHEV with 40 miles of range and still have the ability to travel long distances. All these ice bans are shortsighted and stupid. I'm not against EV's, I actually like them. I hate stupidity when it comes to lawmaking with respect to vehicles.

I also don't understand why no OEM has come up with range extender technology. Like a portable tow behind generator that can deliver 300 or so watts a minute. There are so many solutions to the current problems and I have never seen any of the current OEMs attempt to tackle them.

IMO there is no reason an EV should be carrying around a 100kw battery, it's excessive and wasteful. There is at minimum 300kg of extra weight that could be shaved with no more than a 50kw battery and hybrid range extender for use as needed.