For You Electric Vehicle Fans

[KARNUT]

I’d be inclined to buy an electric small p/u only if it was an competitively priced and quick as hell. The range problem for me would be solved with a gas powered generator mounted in the bed. In reality hybrids will probably be more mainstream. For the near future.

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, Donstar said:

I don't believe the move to EV's is being overly forced or pushed. I think we're dragging on the move but understand there is a lot invested into our current way of moving people.  The snowball is simply getting too large to slow or ignore!  For those of us who will only consider trucks, the Rivian is receiving a lot of attention but the F150 (Lightening) will, I believe, remove all hesitancy amongst pickup drivers.  If you haven't watched recent YouTube reviews of this vehicle, have a look.  The performance specs of the base model of the Lightening when compared to the Raptor are shocking. I'm sure the delay/tease of the Silverado EV  is strategic but I'd rather have all choices at their respective dealerships. I think next year we're going to witness the start of a rapid decline of the gas powered vehicles on Dealer's lots.  Personally, I'd be very reluctant to buy a new gas powered truck at this time.

 

Speaking to the audience Donstar, not you  Just liked your 'tee up'. 

 

There was a news story yesterday about California introducing a bill to ban sales of ALL gas powered generators. Even ban the installations of generators in California built RV's. So this isn't about just transportation. This is about the politics of carbon use. 

 

I'd like everyone to take a slow look around the room your sitting in and tell me what is left after your remove all carbon? Okay you can leave yourself in the room. 

 

How many products in you home are made from, run on, rely on the use of carbon based materials and fuels for there existence or manufacture. Not much left in the room is there? 

 

Consider this. This is a planet. A self contained ecosystem. We don't ship out CO2 and import O2 from outer space. One that has worked flawlessly to keep greenhouse gasses in check for as long as the planet has been inhabitable. That is until the carbon cycle was UNBALANCED. You can remove every carbon emitter and not cure the imbalance if you continue to strip the planet wholesale of the vegetation and dump trash into the oceans that are the OTHER HALF of the carbon cycle. 

 

It does not belong to man to direct even his own step. (Jerimiah 10:23). Seems we don't even understand the questions. Not even the situation we are in. What we do understand is power, politics and greed. That we have down pat. 

 

How much of this new all electric truck is left after you remove all rubber, plastic, fabrics, paints and coatings, wire insulation and every other item processed with carbon fuels from it? NOTHING...what got solved? Just traded one set of issues for another.  We are good at that. 

 

On another note. Road is littered with idiots that can't handle the power of a Turbo 2.0 I4 and what to give them all the acceleration of a Top Fuel car? 

 

Let's test the resolve of humans to act in their own behalf. Reduce the world speed limit to 50 mph. That's a move that cuts vehicle emissions 28% with the stroke of a pen. (Providing it's enforced and respected) Worked in the 70's during the embargo. Would work even better now.

 

Just spit your coffee all over the monitor, didn't you?

Yea, ya don't really wan this fixed do ya?

[customboss]

Check out these links here in electric power and varying fuel cell options.   I worked for a OEM engine maker that is earnestly working to employ electric drive systems but based on various fuels sources that are not traditional as we normally think of them.  They are executing that around the world. 

 

https://www.cummins.com/new-power/technology/fuel-cell

 

 

[KARNUT]

One thing the 50 MPH speed limit would do. It would cut the driving population in half. People would be falling asleep from boredom and wrecking all over the place. It would probably be a boom for air travel. I would definitely go back to flying. I hate flying. Airport rage. 

[customboss]

Valvoline an independent company now, since being separated from the former parent Ashland Oil, sees where this trend is heading. 
https://www.lubesngreases.com/lubereport-americas/4_49/valvoline-to-provide-ev-services/

Edited December 8, 2021 by customboss

[OnTheReel]

https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/avoidable-contact/avoidable-contact-126-how-the-hellcat-became-the-only-car-that-matters/

 

Outstanding writing, and many relevant points pertaining to entire automotive market. And giving people what they want.

[BlaineBug]

On 11/10/2021 at 8:00 PM, SILVER SLED said:

I hate how they talk about the trucks having 0 emissions.  There should be some sort of widely used universal scale to compare or be made aware of the amount of environmental damage an ev makes compared to a similar non ev vehicle.  
 

I also wish the batteries would be produced in California and then see how hard the state would push fork electric vehicles. 

[Donstar]

Forgetting about the carbon stuff for a moment, the future with EV's is really quite amazing.  Imagine all of our discussions over the 6.2's and how many of us stop, stare and wish when we see a Raptor?  A base level GM or Ford EV will be heads above in speed, performance and efficiency.  The fuel we will need for the majority of our driving will be from home.  I understand the worries about range and fill-ups for those who often drive more than 300 miles a day, but minimal planning will have you filling up during a needed break from driving.  The changes in the speed and availability of charging stations over the past couple of years demonstrates that demand is quickly eliminating concerns about range.    The materials and infrastructure that go into the switch to EV's obviously have a negative carbon impact.  However, I agree with the belief that, "Electric vehicles create a lower carbon footprint over the course of their lifetime than do cars and trucks that use traditional, internal combustion engines." (CNBC)   If my next truck is flirting 3X more power,  3X cheaper fillups and potentially be kinder to the environment, my love for my gas burning V6 will sadly end in divorce.  

[KARNUT]

Doing a quick search the average cost for a level 2 charger is about 1K. The average charge is about 12$. One really couldn’t replace my trip vehicle. I average 450-500 miles a day driving on a trip. My personal in town vehicle cost me 6700$ and is a fine ride. It replaced my last hot rod truck I had for 12 years that cost me 7500$. I’m not really trying to be contrary. There’s a few Teslas around my area. There’re sharp and fast. I would only be interested in one as a trip vehicle. There’re not there yet. 

[Grumpy Bear]

3 hours ago, Donstar said:

However, I agree with the belief that, "Electric vehicles create a lower carbon footprint over the course of their lifetime than do cars and trucks that use traditional, internal combustion engines." (CNBC)   If my next truck is flirting 3X more power,  3X cheaper fillups and potentially be kinder to the environment, my love for my gas burning V6 will sadly end in divorce.  

 

Three times the power? So nine hundred horsepower and a thousand pounds feet torque.  I'm happy with my third. 

 

Cost per mile energy. 3X? Maybe if the information is carefully cherry picked. Highest voltage rapid charger, cheapest energy market, smallest motor, most efficient battery vs most expensive gas projections in the worst EPA MPG truck going. You do know that there is currently zero road tax on electric, right? And all future energy cost are being compared on the basis of current taxation and cost. Marketing 101. Remember when cable TV was "add free" cause you were paying for it? Now I pay for the dish/cable, then the channel, then the program, then to watch add free a premium and I can catch the last five minutes on some streaming channel for yet another upcharge. Getting it bare bones is easy. Keeping is so is impossible. "We no longer support that platform".  And your reason to believe this will be other is??????????????

 

You are also aware that EV's purchase cost per equivalent vehicle is high enough over the cost of the gas vehicle that ALL energy savings are absorbed in the strike price. Yes, even after tax credits.  

 

All current usgov. reports I've read on this topic show cost of ownership HIGHER  for EV's UNTIL about 5 to 6 years of operation. All "savings" data is collected in the tenth year and treated as the 10 year average. It's okay...go have a look. ISEECARS put the length of ownership of NEW cars about 8.4 years. Any savings is minimal. People toss a phone with every new 'gimmick". You see this being different?

 

https://www.iseecars.com/how-long-people-keep-cars-study

 

Now it could be I'm so far out in left field I can't see the plate. I have the media to thank for that. One shovel of truth mixed with a cement mixer of lies and paid up marketing from all corners of the field. The only way we will know anything for sure is by viewing the data in the review mirror of individual personal experience. Ya know...like a babe new to the world. 

 

 

[customboss]

When EV powered vehicles are mass produced and the primary propulsion driver,  the costs will be lower just from that economy of scale.

 

Regardless of political views the lowest cost, highest profit units will be offered. 

 

Free markets and all....

 

What I am more interested in is the fuel source to make that electricity. My guess is it will be a fully diversified mix of petroleum, nat gas, hydrogen, solar, wind, biogas, methanol, ethanol, micro nuke, you name it.  If it can be made and make a profit good old US will produce it. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by customboss

[customboss]

On 11/10/2021 at 7:00 PM, SILVER SLED said:

I hate how they talk about the trucks having 0 emissions.  There should be some sort of widely used universal scale to compare or be made aware of the amount of environmental damage an ev makes compared to a similar non ev vehicle.  
 

I also wish the batteries would be produced in California and then see how hard the state would push fork electric vehicles. 

Like this?  

https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/22/the-tough-calculus-of-emissions-and-the-future-of-evs/

[Donstar]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Three times the power? So nine hundred horsepower and a thousand pounds feet torque.  I'm happy with my third. 

The all-electric 2022 Rivian R1T has four electric motors that deliver a combined 835 horsepower and 908 lb-ft of torque. (cut & pasted)    As you  know, I'm delighted with my 262 cu.in and not really fair for me to compare it to a Rivian.  It's like comparing  my home phone (landline) to my cell phone.    However if I had to pick one over the other (phone or truck) the decision wouldn't take me very long!  

[BlaineBug]

I feel as though we're glossing right over hybrid technology why I feel can be the very best of both worlds!!!!!  Then again leave it to the government to FORCE something that isn't quite ready yet.  With hybrid technology you'd essentially have something equal to a train locomotive, with an engine driving generators that power traction motors at each wheel or axle.  And then in an automobile you could have the batteries so that the engine may not even have to run at all for errands around town, but if you're going on a 1,000 mile road trip, you won't have to stop for hours to charge before embarking!  For a 1,000 mile trip maybe you'd only have to stop ONCE for fuel for 5 minutes versus stopping 3 times for hours on end to charge your fully electric plug-in vehicle.

[Donstar]

I was once very interested in Hybrids and came very close to owning a beautiful red Hybrid Sierra in '09.  The problem is this technology tends to also offer the downsides of both gas and electric and reduces the impact of either as a dedicated "fuel" source.  I was only willing to go hybrid up until recently but the popularity of EV's in my area are proving my fears to be unfounded.  The speed of rapid charging is something all EV manufacturers strive to improve.  I see a coffee and pee break in the time it takes for my truck receives an 80% charge. (I can't drive more than 300 miles without either anyway!)  The 100% charging can take place at home or my hotel/motel.  I know once I switch to an EV, habits and routines will be forced to change.  This may be even harder than when I first had to self serve at the gas pump and check my own oil!