OCI, not when but why?

[KARNUT]

That brings up a memory. I only remember my grandmother having two cars. A 55 Chevy and a 65 Chevy. My wife got her license in that one in 1974. My barracuda was a stick. She got the oil changed and washed once a year. When she got her snow tires on. 

[elcamino]

OMG, can you believe this?  How is that possible?  How come no other oil companies are doing this?  Oh wait, hasn't AMSOIL been saying this for 50 yrs? 

Quote

Nov. 10, 2022—Mobil 1 has announced the market launch of its new and improved motor oil formulation, according to a press release. 

The Triple Action Formula reportedly allows customers to go 10,000 miles between oil changes. Mobil 1 Extended Performance and Mobil 1 Extended Performance High Mileage motor oils is also offering what it calls Triple Action Formula+, which allows for longer intervals between oil changes and guaranteed protection for 20,000 miles.

"At Mobil 1, we recognize that people have started driving their vehicles, both new and used, for longer periods of time and expect their engines to keep running at peak efficiency – mile after mile, year after year," said Bryce Huschka, marketing manager at Mobil 1. "We continue to push the boundaries in product innovation so more drivers can feel confident that their engines will perform in all conditions. We are proud to launch the Triple Action formulation to help people get more out of any car and spend more time on the fun parts of driving – whether it be a short road trip or cross-country adventure."

 

[KARNUT]

1 hour ago, elcamino said:

OMG, can you believe this?  How is that possible?  How come no other oil companies are doing this?  Oh wait, hasn't AMSOIL been saying this for 50 yrs? 

 

Well here’s the rub. Most people don’t drive more than 10-15K miles a year. They all say change once a year. People who drive more usually they drive sustain highway speeds. The easiest on an engine. All the vehicles I’ve had with oil change monitors reduce oil life in town more versus highway miles. It’s definitely not a one size fits all anymore. With cylinder deactivation and turbo engines. As I said earlier I have 4 different oil change intervals. For 4 different vehicles.

[garagerog]

8 hours ago, customboss said:

Sounds like my Dad the farmer that never fixed anything that wasn’t dead in the field. He lived by the if it ain’t broke don’t meddle with it rule. Stuff broke just when he needed it. 

Don't be to hard on your Dad or his memory whatever the case may be. I grew up on a farm so I know that to most farmers downtime is the first deadly sin. When the crop is still in the field and weather threatens, those 100 hour OCI's go by the wayside. The advent of sealed bearings was a real boon to the ag industry, but that's an example of a part that's a little harder to know that needs preventative replacement than say belts or chains. Technology is a double edge sword in ag too. This past summer the farmer that farms my families land lost better than half a day in the field when a wiring harness went out in his combine. Possibly in the aircraft industry, but off the top of my head I can't think of anywhere else where wire harness replacement would be considered routine maintenance. The smart farmers still spend their winters working on their machinery rather than chewing the fat at the coffee shop or tav so they can push the envelope when it matters most.

[elcamino]

41 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

Well here’s the rub. Most people don’t drive more than 10-15K miles a year. They all say change once a year. People who drive more usually they drive sustain highway speeds. The easiest on an engine. All the vehicles I’ve had with oil change monitors reduce oil life in town more versus highway miles. It’s definitely not a one size fits all anymore. With cylinder deactivation and turbo engines. As I said earlier I have 4 different oil change intervals. For 4 different vehicles.

There are market forces that have a vested interest in convincing vehicle owners to change their oil more often than necessary. The legal prey of these market forces have become convinced that they are purchasing "cheap insurance" or "peace of mind" by changing their oil more often than necessary.

 

I kept this from a industry publication some time ago

About the only ones that really need a 3,000-mile oil change are the quick-lube outlets and dealership service departments. In their internal industry communications, they're frank about how oil changes bring in customers. "Many people...know when to have their oil changed but don't pay that much attention to it," said an article in the National Oil and Lube News online newsletter. "Take advantage of that by using a window sticker system [and] customers will be making their way back to you in a few short months."

[Grumpy Bear]

Okay so we have a host of 3K mile marketing forces countered by an ever-growing number of 10 to 20K marketing forces.

 

Anyone see the problem here yet? 

 

[diyer2]

IMO 

To put it simply, some people care, some don't. Some care more than others. 

[Grumpy Bear]

1 minute ago, diyer2 said:

IMO 

To put it simply, some people care, some don't. Some care more than others. 

 

True. Very true. That said, for those that do, my question was more about the yardstick the majority use to determine an oils useful life. 

 

How does one measure somethings end of usefulness with the yardstick of marketing forces? With personal history? With family traditions? Tea leaves? Service Manuals? The best any of these is likely to produce is a weighted likelihood and I will concede that this likelihood is tipped in the operators' observable experience and yet all he can readily observe is the pass/fail! It's running or it isn't. 

 

If you've disassembled enough motors, you know for certain that there are those that are lightly worn and opened prematurely and those that you can't believe were still running and running quietly. 

 

 

[diyer2]

The majority don't even know about or care about an oils useful life, they change it when they decide to usually going by miles or when a modern cars computer says to change the oil. Most don't know about oil analysis or the difference in oil quality. 

Joe consumer is more concerned about what vehicle they can afford than doing maintenance. Most don't read the owner's manual and to me that says a lot. 

Bottom line, most don't care or beleive what they are told or read.

[KARNUT]

2 hours ago, elcamino said:

There are market forces that have a vested interest in convincing vehicle owners to change their oil more often than necessary. The legal prey of these market forces have become convinced that they are purchasing "cheap insurance" or "peace of mind" by changing their oil more often than necessary.

 

I kept this from a industry publication some time ago

About the only ones that really need a 3,000-mile oil change are the quick-lube outlets and dealership service departments. In their internal industry communications, they're frank about how oil changes bring in customers. "Many people...know when to have their oil changed but don't pay that much attention to it," said an article in the National Oil and Lube News online newsletter. "Take advantage of that by using a window sticker system [and] customers will be making their way back to you in a few short months."

 

 

When I took the CRV to the dealership when my mother in law quit driving the oil change monitor said 5O percent. They only took it to the dealership. It’s a 2015 only had 6K miles on it. No record could be found for oil changes, just antifreeze, battery, brake fluid. I did oil, transmission. For people who pay attention to their vehicles the CVT transmission will drive you batty. I keep it in sport in town. I swear it faster accelerating at 3/4 throttle. At least it makes shifting noises instead of just living at redline. Now here’s where it gets interesting. The sticker in the window says 5K oil change. So I go back at the 5K mark. I asked the service writer. They know me I’ve been taking the Acura there for 21 years. So we get noticed. So again I ask. Is the CRV technology stupid or is the dealership pulling a fast one. It’s telling me I’m 60 percent good. See ya in another 5K miles he say’s your good. This car like my wife’s 05 Elantra , my 17 Camry will be passed around through the family. We’ll see if any of those premature fail from going extended. There’re all basic 4 cylinders, non turbo. 

[diyer2]

Well Karnut if it was me I would be changing the oil more taking into consideration you are planning on passing it onto a family member.  I know you have a history of extended. 

[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, diyer2 said:

Bottom line, most don't care or beleive what they are told or read.

 

I understand. Really.  However, it should not stop those few who do from having the conversation. That's what this thread is for. It's not a discussion to debate if the discussion should be had. That make sense?  

[customboss]

3 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

True. Very true. That said, for those that do, my question was more about the yardstick the majority use to determine an oils useful life. 

 

How does one measure somethings end of usefulness with the yardstick of marketing forces? With personal history? With family traditions? Tea leaves? Service Manuals? The best any of these is likely to produce is a weighted likelihood and I will concede that this likelihood is tipped in the operators' observable experience and yet all he can readily observe is the pass/fail! It's running or it isn't. 

 

If you've disassembled enough motors, you know for certain that there are those that are lightly worn and opened prematurely and those that you can't believe were still running and running quietly. 

 

 

Using science to make decisions??? OMG Most prefer that smoke from marketing make us feel good.

[KARNUT]

1 hour ago, diyer2 said:

Well Karnut if it was me I would be changing the oil more taking into consideration you are planning on passing it onto a family member.  I know you have a history of extended. 

Well I’ve had no failures. And hundreds of vehicles and equipment I’ve been responsible for. So I’m good.

[Grumpy Bear]

10 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

Well I’ve had no failures. And hundreds of vehicles and equipment I’ve been responsible for. So I’m good.

 

I hear ya. Lived most of my adult life doing rinse and repeat and yea, I was good with that as well. I can't say hundreds, however.

 

Thing is I've seen some disturbing trends even in the arena of marketing. Bold statements that give one pause. A really long pause. My recent run-in with Dizzy poked some holes in my long-held beliefs and confirmed some fears I was pretty sure about and now have confirmation of.  Catching some major players in outright lies. Watching PQIA catch MPT in a lie eroded my trust. Vague product datasheets that if held at face value removes validation of the producer's integrity. Test data that simply does not match submitted reference materials that have been verified by third party sources. Allot of lying going on and allot of market HERDING the sheepeople.