the new competitor, 2025 ram charger

the wanderer · November 13, 2023

6 hours ago, Gangly said:

What your missing is that I agree with you and said as much in my post: EV's are here to stay.

Here is what you wrote:

Quote

The reason it wasn't implemented has nothing to do with one brand being ahead of another, or there not being the technology needed to produce the product. It was not implemented into a truck platform by choice. None of the major manufacturers found sufficient profit margins for this platform, and all but RAM moved away from it.

You cannot say everyone else has moved away from range extenders when Ram is the only option. If you're referring to truck EV's in general, then no, manufacturers have NOT moved away from EVs. They are doubling down on them, though yes there is a small dip this year that number will continue to grow through the years. In other words, the RATE of adoption has slowed, but we're (society) still adopting them more and more each year.

Think of it this way: you mash the go pedal in your truck; 0 to 10 comes very fast, 10 to 20 is slower, 50 to 60 is even slower. The rate at which you're accelerating is slowing down over time, but you're still speeding up on the whole. That's whats happened to EV sales, the adoption rate has slowed temporarily but it is still growing.

And this product (generator + EV in a truck) is the most attractive option of all the EV truck options out there. Which is my original point.

newdude · November 13, 2023

On 11/10/2023 at 8:02 AM, gemarsh said:

Let me understand this...

This truck has a full onboard ev system? Then it has a full onboard V6?

So you have the complexity of a EV and the complexity of a V6 in one truck.

Won't this V6 have to have emissions? O2 sensor, a cat, a gas tank and evap components for it, a charging system, a water pump, and cooling system.

Dodge, Mopar, Chrysler, Ram Stenatlas(sp) whatever it is today, needs to die and just go away.

Correct. Think Chevy Volt but at no point does the engine drive the wheels (which the Volt could do in exteme circumstances). The 3.6 acts solely as a generator so yes, it will have a fuel tank (somewhere), EVAP system, catalysts, water pump and cooling system. Also that means in states that have OBD emissions inspections the readiness monitors will have to be set for inspection.

Also...the EV system has its own cooling network which is separate from the ICE cooling loop so then you've got radiators, coolant lines, an electric water pump for that.

There's a reason (like the Silverado EV) the Ramcharger has 8 lug hubs and wheels. HEAVY. Depending on configuration, an F150 Lightning clocks in at 6200-6800lbs. The Ramcharger has a 92kWh battery pack so it should weigh close to the base Lighting pack which is a 98kWh pack and is 1800lbs.

So a Big Horn v6 crew cab is "supposedly" per Ram specs about a 4800lbs curb weight so lets round to 5000lbs. So add 1800lbs for a battery (that takes us to 6800lbs) then add in 200lbs for EV cooling. Now, the motor modules. I can't seem to find a weight for one in a GM or Ford vehicle (or Rivian even) but I'd imagine each one has to be somewhere between 300-400lbs? So lets say two at 400lbs so now we are up to 7800lbs. This could be more than this too I'd imagine.

22 hours ago, the wanderer said:

What you're missing is that EV's are here to stay, the ram charger is the most capable and logical choice for an EV type of truck. Time will tell whether a 620 hp towing machine without any range anxiety fairs better than the pure EV. To me it's clear that the only thing that will kill this truck is price, and that is up to Ram how they deal with that.

So have you put a down payment for an order spot for one yet then? You seem like you are all about it...

Edited November 13, 2023 by newdude

Gangly · November 13, 2023

Here is what you wrote:

You cannot say everyone else has moved away from range extenders when Ram is the only option. I can and I did. Being the only one at the party doesn't mean that nobody else was invited, it means that nobody else thought it was a good party.

If you're referring to truck EV's in general, then no, manufacturers have NOT moved away from EVs(Yes I am referring to truck EV's and no, they are not doubling down on them).

They are doubling down on them, though yes there is a small dip this year that number will continue to grow through the years(Ford Lightning sales are down 46% in the last three months, GM postponed production of the Silverado EV. That's not doubling down).

In other words, the RATE of adoption has slowed, but we're (society) still adopting them more and more each year. (Of course we are, its inevitable and there will be more and more EV's on the road as the world grows, but as I mentioned in the PRIOR post, the growth they have seen over the past 5 years is not sustainable and the market is rebalancing itself. EV's, or more likely Hybrids, are the future and I am excited for it as I mentioned earlier, but the demand for them in a truck platform is MINIMUM. REFER TO MY PRIOR POST AT THE BOTTOM)

Think of it this way: you mash the go pedal in your truck; 0 to 10 comes very fast, 10 to 20 is slower, 50 to 60 is even slower. The rate at which you're accelerating is slowing down over time, but you're still speeding up on the whole. That's whats happened to EV sales, the adoption rate has slowed temporarily but it is still growing.(Never argued against this, I'll refer to the post at the bottom again)

And this product (generator + EV in a truck) is the most attractive option of all the EV truck options out there. Which is my original point. It is the most attractive offer out there, I never said it wasn't, but being the most attractive girl in an Ugly Girl contest doesn't make you pretty.

You are still trying to argue something without realizing we are saying similar things. Because you quoted the wrong post, I'll pull it directly from my post for you and highlight the part you seemed to miss where I clearly stated that EV's are hear to stay, that I am excited about them, but that the market demand that fueled their rate of growth the past 5 years is waning and not sustainable.

"I'm glad to see the EV technology coming to fruition since it will benefit everybody, directly and indirectly, but reality has set in and the logistics of owning one has started to self-correct the market. EV's are here to stay, and I'm glad, but the house of cards market demand for them here in the US has started to crumble and I don't believe we will see the same continuous push for them that has supported their production the past 5 years. Cost of long term ownership, combined with travel logistics, are too costly."

Here are recent articles where comments by TESLA, GM and Ford reflect this.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a45586672/ev-demand-trends-gm-ford/

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-joins-gm-ford-slowing-ev-factory-ramp-demand-fears-spread-2023-10-19/

Good luck to you in your endeavors, and I hope you find whatever substantiating evidence you need to feel better about your stance on the subject matter since we all have a right to our own opinions. Take care, I am finished with this topic.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Gangly

the wanderer · November 15, 2023

Great job in this thread guys, y'all impressed me with your perceptive thoughts and lack of brand bias.

asilverblazer · November 15, 2023

18 hours ago, the wanderer said:

... and lack of brand bias.

www.gm-trucks.com

Can't imagine why?

Perhaps you'd be more welcome at www.truckforums.com

ember1205 · November 17, 2023

On 11/10/2023 at 2:58 PM, the wanderer said:

Couple hundred pounds is exactly the problem. The batteries already weigh signficant amounts, payloads in todays luxurious half tons are in the 1100 to 1400 pound range, diesel is not going to do anything but add more weight, plus add emissions BS which adds more weight and more things to go wrong. It's completely the wrong approach.

The current v6 is not necessarily the best engine for the task, but ICE vs diesel definitely is the right way. All you need is an engine strong enough to power the generator, and ICE engines run cleaner with less issues long term while also weighing less.

Then there is market perception, most people still don't want to touch diesel because "its smelly and dirty and gas stations are limited". Right or wrong, the same truck using a diesel will probably sell less "just because".

Ok... so reduce the battery capacity and offset that couple hundred pounds that way.

Will it sell less? Dunno. Maybe, maybe not.

newdude · November 17, 2023

Here's the frame/layout. Looks like a hot mess. Fuel tank is what 12-16 inches behind the battery so if something happens to the pack (shorts out, fire, etc.) you've got a rather explosive scenario going on there I think. Plus the exhaust runs next to the battery so they better have figured out some optimal battery thermal management when that engine is running.