the new competitor, 2025 ram charger

asilverblazer · November 10, 2023

I think with our technology diesel (settle for gas) electric is the way to go (just like modern locomotives), especially if you plan to tow anything.

500-750 miles towing "range" per day. The recharge time to do that in a full electric makes it unattainable. Using the diesel generator to provide continual electricity makes the most sense. You can take advantage of all the EV benefits (plug in grid recharging, regenerative braking, bi-directional charging, electric only driving on short trips) without the major downside of being down for hours waiting to recharge. The ICE generator can supply heat as a by product. It would only run at a fixed RPM regardless of any external factors so it can be tuned to be extremely efficient. The steady stream of electricity recharging the batteries during coasting braking and other low power demands. It could even run when the truck isn't driving for use as a stand by generator. The ICE generator doesn't need to be a 450 HP, 1000 LB FT engine either...

SVG · November 10, 2023

I like the concept, although not new (Electro-Motive Diesel).

A few observations from 10,000'.

It seems a V-6 engine is overkill. Is Stellantis just trying to use up their remaining inventory of Penstar engines?

I know the OP wanted to keep away from the brand wars but I doubt seriously I'd buy another Dodge product. I've had a few and still own one.

the wanderer · November 10, 2023

4 hours ago, ember1205 said:

So, we can put a diesel engine in a vehicle capable of pulling 80,000 pounds but we can't put an appropriately sized one in a pickup... to run a generator? A diesel engine, comparable in size and power output to what the V6 gas engine can do would add... a couple hundred pounds overall max?

We can have the diesel in the truck to directly operate the truck, but it won't fit if there's a generator added on. Which already adds more weight. There seems to be a lot of holes in this rationale.

Couple hundred pounds is exactly the problem. The batteries already weigh signficant amounts, payloads in todays luxurious half tons are in the 1100 to 1400 pound range, diesel is not going to do anything but add more weight, plus add emissions BS which adds more weight and more things to go wrong. It's completely the wrong approach.

The current v6 is not necessarily the best engine for the task, but ICE vs diesel definitely is the right way. All you need is an engine strong enough to power the generator, and ICE engines run cleaner with less issues long term while also weighing less.

Then there is market perception, most people still don't want to touch diesel because "its smelly and dirty and gas stations are limited". Right or wrong, the same truck using a diesel will probably sell less "just because".

the wanderer · November 10, 2023

2 hours ago, SVG said:

I like the concept, although not new (Electro-Motive Diesel).

A few observations from 10,000'.

It seems a V-6 engine is overkill. Is Stellantis just trying to use up their remaining inventory of Penstar engines?

I know the OP wanted to keep away from the brand wars but I doubt seriously I'd buy another Dodge product. I've had a few and still own one.

That particular v6 is a strong engine. As long as it has enough power, it will work fine. Maybe they'll design an engine around this use case in the future, but I'll take that pentastar over literally any other engine they've produced in the last decade when it comes to reliability and how long it will last. The other options in their lineup I believe are all turbos or not strong enough.

Gangly · November 10, 2023

21 hours ago, the wanderer said:

However that misses the point. This truck has no competition. By definition it can't be late to a game when it's the first one there. You can say that Ram should have had this years ago, but I don't see Ford or GM building one, do you?

The truck has no competition because there is very little interest in that platform. As mentioned, this is not new technology since it has been here for over a decade now. The reason it wasn't implemented has nothing to do with one brand being ahead of another, or there not being the technology needed to produce the product. It was not implemented into a truck platform by choice. None of the major manufacturers found sufficient profit margins for this platform, and all but RAM moved away from it.

EV sales right now are ABSOLUTELY TANKING, with the big three domestic manufacturers suspending production and eliminating some EV platforms all together. Though I wouldn't purchase one because of my work vehicle requirements, I was really looking forward to the Silverado EV and was excited to see the progression of the various EV platforms since they seemed to be advancing in leaps and bounds over the past 5 years.

I'm glad to see the EV technology coming to fruition since it will benefit everybody, directly and indirectly, but reality has set in and the logistics of owning one has started to self-correct the market. EV's are here to stay, and I'm glad, but the house of cards market demand for them here in the US has started to crumble and I don't believe we will see the same continuous push for them that has supported their production the past 5 years. Cost of long term ownership, combined with travel logistics, are to costly.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Gangly

dieselfan1 · November 11, 2023

I'm more interested in the new audio system in the new rams

It's apparently a 17 speaker Klipsch setup with 1200 watts

the wanderer · November 11, 2023

17 hours ago, Gangly said:

The truck has no competition because there is very little interest in that platform. As mentioned, this is not new technology since it has been here for over a decade now. The reason it wasn't implemented has nothing to do with one brand being ahead of another, or there not being the technology needed to produce the product. It was not implemented into a truck platform by choice. None of the major manufacturers found sufficient profit margins for this platform, and all but RAM moved away from it.

EV sales right now are ABSOLUTELY TANKING, with the big three domestic manufacturers suspending production and eliminating some EV platforms all together. Though I wouldn't purchase one because of my work vehicle requirements, I was really looking forward to the Silverado EV and was excited to see the progression of the various EV platforms since they seemed to be advancing in leaps and bounds over the past 5 years.

I'm glad to see the EV technology coming to fruition since it will benefit everybody, directly and indirectly, but reality has set in and the logistics of owning one has started to self-correct the market. EV's are here to stay, and I'm glad, but the house of cards market demand for them here in the US has started to crumble and I don't believe we will see the same continuous push for them that has supported their production the past 5 years. Cost of long term ownership, combined with travel logistics, are to costly.

Ram is responding to pressure from the government, as we all will in future car purchases. Today we still have a choice, that choice is going to be crushed over time. If big v8's are no longer an option and we have to have batterys on board, this is the way to do it. Yes it still has an ICE on board but presumably its rated much cleaner for the environment because the ICE doesn't get used all/most of the time during regular commuting etc.

If you think the other brands moved away from EVs then you're not paying attention in the slightest.

Gangly · November 12, 2023

On 11/11/2023 at 8:43 AM, the wanderer said:

If you think the other brands moved away from EVs then you're not paying attention in the slightest.

Are you serious? You are out of your mind, or have completely been out of the loop for past 6 months if you think they haven't slowed down production and shut down platforms. Are they moving away from them? No, that would be stupid since their is still a market for them, but the market is NOWHERE near as big as anticipated and any article in the past 6 months will clue you in to that fact.

GM just shut down production, even suspended plant operations, canceled joint ventures with another major japanese brand for EV production, canceled EV orders for future vehicles, Ford has slowed down production of EV across the board, stopped taking orders on certain EV platforms, etc. GM's CEO or VP, I forget her name, has been the number one staunch supporter of EV's and came out 2 weeks ago saying they are freezing design and production efforts on their EV lineups due to tanking sales.

If you havent been paying attention to the EV market over the past 6 months then that's on you.

Silverado4x4 · November 12, 2023

2 hours ago, Gangly said:

Are you serious? You are out of your mind, or have completely been out of the loop for past 6 months if you think they haven't slowed down production and shut down platforms. Are they moving away from them? No, that would be stupid since their is still a market for them, but the market is NOWHERE near as big as anticipated and any article in the past 6 months will clue you in to that fact.

GM just shut down production, even suspended plant operations, canceled joint ventures with another major japanese brand for EV production, canceled EV orders for future vehicles, Ford has slowed down production of EV across the board, stopped taking orders on certain EV platforms, etc. GM's CEO or VP, I forget her name, has been the number one staunch supporter of EV's and came out 2 weeks ago saying they are freezing design and production efforts on their EV lineups due to tanking sales.

If you havent been paying attention to the EV market over the past 6 months then that's on you.

You are 100% correct I believe Toyota said only 1.5% of there vehicles sold worldwide were EV's. Gm delayed plans on the ev truck and Tesla halted plans to build a factory in Mexico and the list goes on due to sharply decline sales across all EV markets. Used EV'S inventory on the lots are increasing as it was 55% in 2021 to 75% today, nobody wants a used EV.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Silverado4x4

the wanderer · November 12, 2023

3 hours ago, Gangly said:

Are you serious? You are out of your mind, or have completely been out of the loop for past 6 months if you think they haven't slowed down production and shut down platforms. Are they moving away from them? No, that would be stupid since their is still a market for them, but the market is NOWHERE near as big as anticipated and any article in the past 6 months will clue you in to that fact.

GM just shut down production, even suspended plant operations, canceled joint ventures with another major japanese brand for EV production, canceled EV orders for future vehicles, Ford has slowed down production of EV across the board, stopped taking orders on certain EV platforms, etc. GM's CEO or VP, I forget her name, has been the number one staunch supporter of EV's and came out 2 weeks ago saying they are freezing design and production efforts on their EV lineups due to tanking sales.

If you havent been paying attention to the EV market over the past 6 months then that's on you.

What you're missing is that EV's are here to stay, the ram charger is the most capable and logical choice for an EV type of truck. Time will tell whether a 620 hp towing machine without any range anxiety fairs better than the pure EV. To me it's clear that the only thing that will kill this truck is price, and that is up to Ram how they deal with that.

Edited November 12, 2023 by the wanderer

KARNUT · November 13, 2023

Everyone thought diesel cars and lite trucks were here to stay. Same with propane power. If the battery technology, range, recharge and there’s that pesky infrastructure problem is solved. Who knows. Look at the investment into satellite radio. Then came pandora, iHeart etc. satellite radio is fading. When the true cost of electric is finally revealed. It may fade too.

dieselfan1 · November 13, 2023

On 11/11/2023 at 6:33 AM, dieselfan1 said:

I'm more interested in the new audio system in the new rams

It's apparently a 17 speaker Klipsch setup with 1200 watts

I was a little off...

At the heart of the Tungsten’s interior is the Klipsch Reference Premiere audio system, a 1,228-watt powerhouse that delivers an unparalleled auditory experience. With 23 specifically tuned speakers, including a high-performing 12-inch subwoofer and two one-inch titanium dome tweeters, this system sets a new standard for in-truck audio quality.

Silverado4x4 · November 13, 2023

Now why in the hell does one need all that stereo in a truck. I play my radio so I can hear it in the truck not to play it so everyone outside can hear and advertise the hey look at me look at me and my stereo I have.

Gangly · November 13, 2023

15 hours ago, the wanderer said:

What you're missing is that EV's are here to stay, the ram charger is the most capable and logical choice for an EV type of truck. Time will tell whether a 620 hp towing machine without any range anxiety fairs better than the pure EV. To me it's clear that the only thing that will kill this truck is price, and that is up to Ram how they deal with that.

What your missing is that I agree with you and said as much in my post: EV's are here to stay.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Gangly