2005 Chevy 1500 4l60e Failure.

Peter M.Thompson · February 24, 2016

Well I see all of the responses and to the moderator that said it was the shop's fault I would agree on the first and second rebuild but the factory original and the second BRAND NEW GM put in sure wasn't that shops fault. I'm a Certified Master Mechanic of 30 years experience of Gas Vehicles and Heavy Diesel Equipment and trucks. I have a two year degree in automotive and a two year degree in diesel plus all the hundreds of courses required through my 30 years to satisfy my job requirements. I am also Warranty Certified, Managerial trained so I think I should have a proper knowledge of machinery across the board. I am not being arrogant or busting anyone's chops when I quote my credentials. It's just a fact of my experience. If someone had an excellent experience with a vehicle then great I am happy for them but the industry as a whole recognizes the weakness areas of this transmission and have upgraded parts on the market . GM itself has had recalls and TBI's on this transmission so to me that in it's self proves the point. Why do you ask if I have all this knowledge I did not do the rebuild myself? The answer is simple, after having broken my neck in a wreck a number of years ago then having to go back to work against the doctor's orders, then years of working and moving in positions I was not suppose to be resulting in severe injury to my back to the point they will not do surgery on me because they would have to fuse every vertebrae, plus a recent total surgery repair of a shoulder because of being rear ended while stopped at a red light by a truck and trailer I can no longer physically perform the required physical abilities it takes. Frustrating heck yea, to be on disability and having to pay someone else to do a job I know I could have done just as well and better than most it does get frustrating. So now that I've vented, my whole point is the 4L60e has had problems through the years regardless if you took better than average maintenance. This truck did have a toe package but in the last three transmissions it has never even towed a little garden trailer. There isn't even a ball in the receiver. My vehicles are kept up premo as I can't even stand if the cigarette lighter doesn't work and I don't smoke. My Ford F150 has the tiny wimpy 5 speed that they also put in their small trucks ( which have a higher towing capacity than the F150 because of the weight difference) and the 4.2 engine which doesn't have the best reputation for durability. That being said I have over 300K miles on the engine and drive train. This vehicle is know for the transmission and clutch being the weak link in it's towing capacity. I feel using that as a base line I should have a pretty good idea how to maintain and make a machine last. We also have a 2006 GMC Sierra, do I have confidence in it, let's just say I am suspicious and I wouldn't have it if it wasn't for the fact it was my father in laws last truck and they practically gave it to us for $4500.00. I did have to modify the Evap solenoid and location to fix a problem they have with those but so far in the 4 months we've had it the vehicle has performed as it should. Hopefully it won't become the beast the 99 Silverado has. I did travel to Mississippi to pick up another transmission from a rolled over 2001 Suburban and paying a different shop ( a friend ) of mine I've known for years to swap them out. If all goes well and there hopefully a truthful person that sold the transmission to me ( owner in another shop) the Silverado will be up and going again. If so then even though we have so much invested in this vehicle I think it's time to take a loss and get rid of it. Just too many bad memories. LOL I'll trade it in on a more economical vehicle for my son. Good luck to all and pray this gamble on a used tranny doesn't bite me in the butt. If it does then I'm selling the truck cheap ! By the way thanks for all the input positive or negative.

dcheeseman · February 24, 2016

its a bad thing if the trans fluid is changed.... your not supposed to touch the fluid if its been in there for over about 50k. i did a fluid flush on one of my 4L60's with 115,000 miles and completely blew at 120,000.

aside from that, the 4L60's typically last dont last too far over 100k and its not too uncommon for failures under 100k.

I don't buy this.....believe its all in how you treat'm! I have a 1995 Chevy Silverado K1500 4L60e I got from my uncle at 126,000 miles. It now has a little over 226,000 ALL original miles on motor, trans and transfer-case the whole nine. I've personally changed the transmission fluid and filter about 10 times in 100,000 miles. Shifts and drives like butter. Cold or hot weather still shifts great. Clean fluid and filter makes for a happy tranny.

This has been my personal experience, fluid does wear down and get metal in it over time from clutch plates. Transmission fluid DOES need to be changed just like any other fluid or petroleum based fluid. Proper maintenance.

Daniel

dcheeseman · February 24, 2016

My 4L60e has 301,000 miles on it and it gets used. I tow a car trailer atleast 3-4 times a month if not more and never had an issue. Granted I change driveline fluids every 15k-20k no matter what. Ive done the tranny flush and filter on many vehicles well past 50k 4L60e's included with out a single problem. I think it depends more on driving habits and conditions more than anything and proper upkeep

I would say this tranny had a very hard life early on resulting what you see here

Agree 100%

dcheeseman · February 24, 2016

I hear ya. No offense meant to you. I just dont get how some vehicles have such failures. Ive never lost a engine, tranny, tcase, differential in any vehicle. Just blows me away when I see stuff like this. Just what the hell did the previous owner do to the truck to cause that much damage. Id expect to see a failure like this from a truck with the miles mine has deffinately NOT a truck with 80k.

BTW think the previous owner was the type who was still rolling in reverse when they put it into drive?

He probably was pullin 10 Ford F150's at a time

cmysstailights · February 24, 2016

I had a 01 burb with over 300000, never changed the trany fluid. Old saying, never buy a car that was built on a monday or friday lol

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Duelin · February 24, 2016

Well I see all of the responses and to the moderator that said it was the shop's fault I would agree on the first and second rebuild but the factory original and the second BRAND NEW GM put in sure wasn't that shops fault. I'm a Certified Master Mechanic of 30 years experience of Gas Vehicles and Heavy Diesel Equipment and trucks. I have a two year degree in automotive and a two year degree in diesel plus all the hundreds of courses required through my 30 years to satisfy my job requirements. I am also Warranty Certified, Managerial trained so I think I should have a proper knowledge of machinery across the board. I am not being arrogant or busting anyone's chops when I quote my credentials. It's just a fact of my experience. If someone had an excellent experience with a vehicle then great I am happy for them but the industry as a whole recognizes the weakness areas of this transmission and have upgraded parts on the market . GM itself has had recalls and TBI's on this transmission so to me that in it's self proves the point. Why do you ask if I have all this knowledge I did not do the rebuild myself? The answer is simple, after having broken my neck in a wreck a number of years ago then having to go back to work against the doctor's orders, then years of working and moving in positions I was not suppose to be resulting in severe injury to my back to the point they will not do surgery on me because they would have to fuse every vertebrae, plus a recent total surgery repair of a shoulder because of being rear ended while stopped at a red light by a truck and trailer I can no longer physically perform the required physical abilities it takes. Frustrating heck yea, to be on disability and having to pay someone else to do a job I know I could have done just as well and better than most it does get frustrating. So now that I've vented, my whole point is the 4L60e has had problems through the years regardless if you took better than average maintenance. This truck did have a toe package but in the last three transmissions it has never even towed a little garden trailer. There isn't even a ball in the receiver. My vehicles are kept up premo as I can't even stand if the cigarette lighter doesn't work and I don't smoke. My Ford F150 has the tiny wimpy 5 speed that they also put in their small trucks ( which have a higher towing capacity than the F150 because of the weight difference) and the 4.2 engine which doesn't have the best reputation for durability. That being said I have over 300K miles on the engine and drive train. This vehicle is know for the transmission and clutch being the weak link in it's towing capacity. I feel using that as a base line I should have a pretty good idea how to maintain and make a machine last. We also have a 2006 GMC Sierra, do I have confidence in it, let's just say I am suspicious and I wouldn't have it if it wasn't for the fact it was my father in laws last truck and they practically gave it to us for $4500.00. I did have to modify the Evap solenoid and location to fix a problem they have with those but so far in the 4 months we've had it the vehicle has performed as it should. Hopefully it won't become the beast the 99 Silverado has. I did travel to Mississippi to pick up another transmission from a rolled over 2001 Suburban and paying a different shop ( a friend ) of mine I've known for years to swap them out. If all goes well and there hopefully a truthful person that sold the transmission to me ( owner in another shop) the Silverado will be up and going again. If so then even though we have so much invested in this vehicle I think it's time to take a loss and get rid of it. Just too many bad memories. LOL I'll trade it in on a more economical vehicle for my son. Good luck to all and pray this gamble on a used tranny doesn't bite me in the butt. If it does then I'm selling the truck cheap ! By the way thanks for all the input positive or negative.

I would think that someone with all the knowledge and years of experience and background that you possess. Would have known better than to buy a truck that the industry as a whole knows they have documented problems that you are aware of. And you should never buy one. Now why would someone do that? Is it because they don't trust their judgement. Or what other factors would cause you to make that kind of decision.

txab · February 24, 2016

Peter M.Thompson · February 25, 2016

Guess some people did not read all of the post. Fluids and filters changed, the truck was given to my son by his grandfather died. Since my son has owned it the truck has not pulled not one thing not even a rabbit out of a hat. Again I state as I have multiple times if you are having a positive experience great but the facts are there. Whether you like them or believe them or not. This has apparently struck a nerve with some people by the responses I've received, Good, that means some people are paying attention. Most vehicles have some quirks that have to be addressed it doesn't matter what make or model. I personally love BMW's but my gosh they had a terrible time with the brake rotors warping and you had to address that problem. I love older Chevy's and GMC's more than the older Fords. I use to deplore Chrysler products and my wife bought a Dart that was like off the show room floor. Even the truck looked new. The car was ten years old and owned by a retired Air Force Vet. It seems like I worked on that car everyday. Volkswagen Beetles were notorious for problems when it rained. After a storm you would see them popped up on the side of the road like mushrooms. LOL Just because this is a GM forum does not mean just because someone has noticed a problem that you have to assume there was mistreatment of the vehicle. GM also had a problem with their ABS solenoids going out and throwing a code turning the warning light on. In the early days it gave the Dealerships fits because they would replace the valve body or solenoid what ever was called for. I haven't read all the dealer documentation but my father in law at the time was told by the dealership that they did not have a fix for it yet and the best thing he could do was pull the fuse or the ABS system would keep running when the truck was shut off. OMG let's jump into Ford's Diesel engine problems beginning in late 2002 early 2003 when they quit using the 7.3. It's common knowledge if you have one of the International engines from that time period on up through oh gosh trying to remember off the top of my head, maybe 2010 possibly, you were going to have headbolt on the earlier plus cooler and high pressure pump problems resulting in thousands of dollars of repairs or maybe a new engine. Nissan pick up had one of those too. Horrible about blowing head gaskets. Back in the 90's I worked for the City and County of Denver, CO. We had tons of GM products. We had to keep several brake controls ( computer modules) in stock they were so common on failure. I am trying to point out for any new people on the forum to be aware they may have problems with this transmission and to be aware of it so they can plan ahead. A lot of rebuilders of these transmissions or parts manufacturer's have like 4 stages of toughness you can build this transmission depending on what it is used for. Consideration on wheel size, gear ratio, tire type, engine power/ torque and what is being pulled, or basically what it will be used for all play a factor in the end results. You have to remember that most of these companies are concentrating on the bottom line for profit. They may fudge a little on some things then again a parts supplier may have an inferior part. One problem with aluminum houses that is often overlooked it that there may be a micro crack that will not be visible to the naked eye. Yes the part looks good but then when the shaft is put under pressure it puttings pressure on the bearings which in turn put pressure on the micro fracture in the case and it opens up some causing binding and misalignment of internal parks. What if you have a carrier bearing that has been going out and that is letting the shaft droop some and wallow around putting the tail shaft in a bind which in turn messes the rear seal and bearing/ bushings so you have a sloppy mess and possible failure. The point is from a business standpoint everyone is trying to make their product lighter, cheaper, and more versatile to cut down on assembly line changes which cost downtime dollars. They push the limits sometimes and put the products out before they have been proven.. Engineers make mistakes too they are human. It does not matter what product there is out there whether it's a chainsaw or a toaster there can be design flaws. I mentioned aluminum houses with micro fracture well that goes for the old cast iron too. I found one in a John Deere Tractor many years ago when I was a lot younger. Every mechanic in the shop had worked on this machine but could not find out what the popping noise was when pressure was switching from torque to no torque. I pulled the top plate off the tractor when it got around to me as I was the lowest man on the seniority list and everyone else was on a job. I drove the tractor with flashlight in hand and an open transmission popping the throttle to find the area the noise was coming from. The result was the outer race was resting on a worn out seat and the outer race was cracked causing the shaft to flex and the that created the popping sound. I showed the shop supervisor and he got mad because I found it when no one else had. They had two weeks of their top experienced mechanics hours on this machine. He told me to keep my mouth shut and not tell the customer because we had already had too much money in time on this vehicle for me to tear it down for repair. I was furious. It was not right for them to tell the owner that they couldn't find the problem and they'd have to wait till it got worse. This would in turn cost the customer thousands of dollars later on and it would be put on another work order so I wouldn't get credit. Where was the ethics in that? I know I am writing long post but I have also trained many mechanics so when someone is experiencing a problem the best thing to do is listen closely and ask a lot of questions. When ever I get this truck back and the old transmission and I can guarantee you it will be on my bench and because of my disability I will have to get my son to do the physical work but I will find the problem with this particular machine. Was the failure Mr. Transmissions fault or partly their fault, was it solely this housings fault, inferior parts put in or not replaced, who knows but I will update whenever I can . It may be a while though as I am in the middle of machining a replacement part for a wood lathe from the 1940-50's so I can put it back in operation to make a new fore stock for a 1920's pump shot gun I am restoring. Thanks for the input as always. Peter

Peter M.Thompson · February 25, 2016

Again you guys are assuming the previous owner trashed the truck causing the trans to blow apart. There are too many out there in pieces. Not everyone who has a failure has mistreated the transmission. There is a transmission shop just down the road from me that keeps built ones on the shelf because it happens so much. Give the poor guy a break. He lucked up having a friend that would help him out like that. $2600.00 - $3400,00 is not unheard of to have one done and that is with only a year guarantee. Hopefully when you rebuild it put in all the beefed up parts so maybe you'll never experience it again. Yes taking care of a machine may extend it's life, but you can always get a bad one too. By the way Thanks for posting the pics so that if we have some guys in here that just drive vehicles can see what those of us who are trained and certified have already seen. Great job.

Nanotech Environmental · February 25, 2016

Hi Peter-

Just a friendly note - paragraphs are our friend.

rdnkcpa · February 26, 2016

I get it the 4L60E has its issues. That being said, I have a 2004 Silverado with 165ish Miles on the clock. Bought it brand new in June of 2004. Original transmission still in it and shifting well. I did drop the pan and do a full fluid sway at about 120K. 40K later still going....

My son has a 2001 S10 with the 4L60E in it with 225K still going pretty well.

My sample size is very small but overall they have treated me well. I know I just jinxed myself, one of them will go south for sure now....