What has GM done new to set its self in the right direction.

[MikeNH]

 

 

Huh? The wavy bed rails are due to ultra thin sheet metal.

 

 

Go onto a truck forum for Ford, Dodge, Toyota or anywhere else and you'll find people complaining about thin sheet metal. It's a fact of life on just about every new vehicle.

 

 

So, instead of fixing the issues properly, they go back to old-tech drum brakes? If drum brakes are just as good, why does EVERY other mfr use them in all of their trucks? And why does GM use them in the NHT 1/2 tons and the HD trucks? I think the only other GM vehicle that uses rear drums that I know of is the Sonic.

 

 

I could care less what style brake system my truck has as long as it works good and is reliable. I haven't turned a wrench on the newest pickups from Ford or Dodge but the previous generations had plenty of issues with their brakes. Those miserable drum-in-disc parking brakes almost never hold well and when it does come time to pull the rotor for a brake job, you wreck the crappy parking brake shoes. I'm sure the other manufacturers would jump at the chance to use drum brakes but they saw the backlash from e-idiots like you who think it's an actual problem. As for HD trucks, I thought I read once that above a certain GVWR, hydraulic brakes need to be disc-type.

 

And honestly, if you hate drums so much and have wavy sheetmetal in the bed, why on earth did you buy the truck in the first place?

[NoMoreGM4Me]

As for HD trucks, I thought I read once that above a certain GVWR, hydraulic brakes need to be disc-type.

 

 

And why do you suppose that is?

 

And honestly, if you hate drums so much and have wavy sheetmetal in the bed, why on earth did you buy the truck in the first place?

 

 

Good question!

[music]

I think the only other GM vehicle that uses rear drums that I know of is the Sonic.

 

 

Not true, I don't know them all... but some of the Cruze models have rear drum (edit: I looked at them on the lot one day). The most reliable small/mid-sized truck, the Toyota Tacoma, uses rear drums... and has for *years*. The previous generation Tundra used rear drums, and there have been a lot of complaints on the rear disc system on the new Tundra. Unless you own a modern truck with rear drums, why do you care? Nobody will ever make you buy one. Perhaps you know more about brake systems than Bendix and GM (Bendix designed the current disc/drum system for GM iirc). As for the wavy bed rail metal, that's silly. Mine doesn't have waves, and the other brands (Ford/Toyota) I've looked at don't have metal on the bed rails at all (just plastic caps over an open grid). I haven't looked at Dodge, so I can't comment on those... but they also appear to use a plastic cap over an open grid. You could stick a plastic rail cap on a GM and have double the thickness that they have (since they only have the plastic). The same is true of the rear wheel wells... the others have gone to plastic wells, where GM still has steel, plus the option of a plastic liner on top of the steel.

[NoMoreGM4Me]

I think the only other GM vehicle that uses rear drums that I know of is the Sonic.

 

 

Not true, I don't know them all... but some of the Cruze models have rear drum (edit: I looked at them on the lot one day). The most reliable small/mid-sized truck, the Toyota Tacoma, uses rear drums... and has for *years*. The previous generation Tundra used rear drums, and there have been a lot of complaints on the rear disc system on the new Tundra. Unless you own a modern truck with rear drums, why do you care? Nobody will ever make you buy one. Perhaps you know more about brake systems than Bendix and GM (Bendix designed the current disc/drum system for GM iirc). As for the wavy bed rail metal, that's silly. Mine doesn't have waves, and the other brands (Ford/Toyota) I've looked at don't have metal on the bed rails at all (just plastic caps over an open grid). I haven't looked at Dodge, so I can't comment on those... but they also appear to use a plastic cap over an open grid. You could stick a plastic rail cap on a GM and have double the thickness that they have (since they only have the plastic). The same is true of the rear wheel wells... the others have gone to plastic wells, where GM still has steel, plus the option of a plastic liner on top of the steel.

 

 

The Ram has steel bed rails. No plastic caps.

[music]

The Ram has steel bed rails. No plastic caps.

 

 

Thanks for clarifying. The only one I looked at had the caps on, and I hadn't seen one with them removed (and haven't looked at new ones on the lot).

[NoMoreGM4Me]

The Ram has steel bed rails. No plastic caps.

 

 

Thanks for clarifying. The only one I looked at had the caps on, and I hadn't seen one with them removed (and haven't looked at new ones on the lot).

 

 

I have seen the Rams with and without the Rambox option and both were capless. In fact, I have yet to see a Ram with plastic caps.

[MikeNH]

As for HD trucks, I thought I read once that above a certain GVWR, hydraulic brakes need to be disc-type.

 

 

And why do you suppose that is?

 

 

 

 

 

Why would I care? I have a half ton truck that stops just fine. I'll take GM's proven ideas over Ford's timebomb engines or the Ram that can't even come close to competing in the market.

[NoMoreGM4Me]

Why would I care? I have a half ton truck that stops just fine. I'll take GM's proven ideas over Ford's timebomb engines or the Ram that can't even come close to competing in the market.

 

 

Please substantiate those claims. Timebomb engines? Ford's new engines put GM's to shame. Hence the reason GM is redesigning them....to keep up.

 

And how is the Ram uncompetitive? A Ram can do anything your truck can do, and ride better doing it.

[MoreGM4Me]

Why would I care? I have a half ton truck that stops just fine. I'll take GM's proven ideas over Ford's timebomb engines or the Ram that can't even come close to competing in the market.

 

 

Please substantiate those claims. Timebomb engines? Ford's new engines put GM's to shame. Hence the reason GM is redesigning them....to keep up.

 

And how is the Ram uncompetitive? A Ram can do anything your truck can do, and ride better doing it.

 

Just curious what do you drive?

[MikeNH]

Ecoboosts have been randomly going into limphome mode and owners have had injectors replaced and the 5.0 in the Mustang is so highly tuned from the factory that owners with just minor mods are blowing engines, I see no reason the F-150 version isn't equally at risk.

 

The Ram sales numbers speak for themselves. But since you ask, it took till 2012 for them to add a 6th gear, even if it is just a band-aid with the same old 5-speed unit. More important was the lack of side airbags in the 09-11s. They do horrible in some of the side impact tests.

 

My truck rides fine and would certainly handle weight better than the coil setup on a Ram. GM isn't redesigning their engines because of Ford, Dodge or anyone else. A new vehicle model is something years in the making, GM started on whatever they're doing well before we knew about the 5.0 and EB.

 

 

Ford engines might have the upper hand on power at this point but you fail to point out that Ford engines were well behind GM's offerings ever since GM introduced the LS type engines for trucks in 1999. Ford was the one who wasn't keeping up. Take any model year 5.4 and 5.3 and the GM will school the Ford.

 

Why would I care? I have a half ton truck that stops just fine. I'll take GM's proven ideas over Ford's timebomb engines or the Ram that can't even come close to competing in the market.

 

 

Please substantiate those claims. Timebomb engines? Ford's new engines put GM's to shame. Hence the reason GM is redesigning them....to keep up.

 

And how is the Ram uncompetitive? A Ram can do anything your truck can do, and ride better doing it.

 

Just curious what do you drive?

 

 

 

 

This just got awesome!

[RyanbabZ71]

Ecoboosts have been randomly going into limphome mode and owners have had injectors replaced and the 5.0 in the Mustang is so highly tuned from the factory that owners with just minor mods are blowing engines, I see no reason the F-150 version isn't equally at risk.

 

The Ram sales numbers speak for themselves. But since you ask, it took till 2012 for them to add a 6th gear, even if it is just a band-aid with the same old 5-speed unit. More important was the lack of side airbags in the 09-11s. They do horrible in some of the side impact tests.

 

My truck rides fine and would certainly handle weight better than the coil setup on a Ram. GM isn't redesigning their engines because of Ford, Dodge or anyone else. A new vehicle model is something years in the making, GM started on whatever they're doing well before we knew about the 5.0 and EB.

 

 

Ford engines might have the upper hand on power at this point but you fail to point out that Ford engines were well behind GM's offerings ever since GM introduced the LS type engines for trucks in 1999. Ford was the one who wasn't keeping up. Take any model year 5.4 and 5.3 and the GM will school the Ford.

 

Why would I care? I have a half ton truck that stops just fine. I'll take GM's proven ideas over Ford's timebomb engines or the Ram that can't even come close to competing in the market.

 

 

Please substantiate those claims. Timebomb engines? Ford's new engines put GM's to shame. Hence the reason GM is redesigning them....to keep up.

 

And how is the Ram uncompetitive? A Ram can do anything your truck can do, and ride better doing it.

 

Just curious what do you drive?

 

 

 

 

This just got awesome!

 

 

[Carder09]

Its funny how this fan boy keeps talkin, he probably is pro ford but its w/e, let the kids play while the adults talk grown up stuff . Oh about the new ford engines, the eco boost isn't what it seems, did you know that to obtain the all mighty 22 mpgs it promises you have to get smaller gears, :O what! So your saying that I have to get smaller gearing which in turn means less towing cap? But I thought you could get the mileage and the towing together? Oh so you have to get the bigger gears to get the towing which not only decreases my mileage but also doesn't tow well either, those turbos are just spoolin like a mo fo possibly overworking to pull this damn trailer. Hmm did I make the right choice because I could get one mpg better than the competion? Guess so. Oh also dodge doesn't make a good suspension, even dodge owners will tell you that. The ride is just not comfortable. And another fact, or opinoon, but today while on kbb, turns out chevy/gmc outsells ford not only in america but in other countries too! Food for thought

[NoMoreGM4Me]

Ecoboosts have been randomly going into limphome mode and owners have had injectors replaced and the 5.0 in the Mustang is so highly tuned from the factory that owners with just minor mods are blowing engines, I see no reason the F-150 version isn't equally at risk.

 

The Ram sales numbers speak for themselves. But since you ask, it took till 2012 for them to add a 6th gear, even if it is just a band-aid with the same old 5-speed unit. More important was the lack of side airbags in the 09-11s. They do horrible in some of the side impact tests.

 

My truck rides fine and would certainly handle weight better than the coil setup on a Ram. GM isn't redesigning their engines because of Ford, Dodge or anyone else. A new vehicle model is something years in the making, GM started on whatever they're doing well before we knew about the 5.0 and EB.

 

 

Ford engines might have the upper hand on power at this point but you fail to point out that Ford engines were well behind GM's offerings ever since GM introduced the LS type engines for trucks in 1999. Ford was the one who wasn't keeping up. Take any model year 5.4 and 5.3 and the GM will school the Ford.

 

 

 

So, when it's Ford, a few isolated incidents is a condemnation of all of them, but when it's GM, it's not.

 

Got it, thanks!

 

And regarding the Ram...ah yes, sales numbers define quality, right? Then you just admitted that Ford has built the best full sized truck for decades!

 

GM wasn't exactly the first to the party when it comes to 6 speeds either. But I bet you weren't bashing them in 2007 when the Tundra had 6 speeds (in all V8 models) while GM was still using the 4 speed in everything but the Denali. The Ram was using a 5 speed for several years while GM was still using 4 speeds in most of their trucks. Besides, last I checked, this is 2012...let's stick with the present instead of living inthe past, shall we?

[NoMoreGM4Me]

Its funny how this fan boy keeps talkin, he probably is pro ford but its w/e, let the kids play while the adults talk grown up stuff . Oh about the new ford engines, the eco boost isn't what it seems, did you know that to obtain the all mighty 22 mpgs it promises you have to get smaller gears, :O what! So your saying that I have to get smaller gearing which in turn means less towing cap? But I thought you could get the mileage and the towing together? Oh so you have to get the bigger gears to get the towing which not only decreases my mileage but also doesn't tow well either, those turbos are just spoolin like a mo fo possibly overworking to pull this damn trailer. Hmm did I make the right choice because I could get one mpg better than the competion? Guess so. Oh also dodge doesn't make a good suspension, even dodge owners will tell you that. The ride is just not comfortable. And another fact, or opinoon, but today while on kbb, turns out chevy/gmc outsells ford not only in america but in other countries too! Food for thought

 

 

The Ecoboost would make your truck look silly...towing or at the track. It simply outworks and out classes your truck in every way.

 

Sorry, but Chevy/GMC trucks are NOT outselling the F-series.

 

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2012/01/december-2011-top-10-pickup-truck-sales.html

[MikeNH]

I would never have bought another 4 speed. Ask anyone whose been here since last year, I was very undecided and a bit apprehensive about giving GM another chance as I wasn't terribly happy with my 2003. In the end the only thing that really let GM win me over at the time was because Ford didn't offer the F150 in the configuration I wanted. I was a harsh critic of GM for several years but the past 2-3 years have shown a huge leap in quality. I drive 20-30 rental cars a year and have for the past five years so I see a lot of what is on the market. Telling me to stop living in the past is just a way to gloss over the boat anchors that powered Fords for the past 14 or so years.

 

And sales volume is certainly an indicator of quality which is why up until 2008 Chevy/GMC beat Ford sales and why now again their numbers are only like 20k units shy of Fords.