Oil change intervals

[Grumpy Bear]

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 6:28 AM, Cowpie said:

 

That Red Line CCS is not a number derived from the industry standard ATSM D5293 cold crank simulator testing protocol. It really means little in terms of comparison.   A 172 VI is nice but many other oils have VI's in that range.   Pour point is good, but it is the CCS that really is more important.  And without showing the ASTM D5293 testing number of that CCS, "mind numbing"  is purely subjective.

 

 

 

As a matter a fact it is Cliff. Nothing subjective about it and still mind numbingly low. Why?

 

Red Line (non-race) is a blend of PAO and an Ester. A good percentage of the can is an ester. It also has no more trouble holding the add pack than the original Mobil 1 which was 100% PAO or Amsoil Signature Series, also and still a full PAO. (both minus the add carrier oil) There is very little VI suppression in a Red Line 0W20, again due to the high loading of esters which also account for the high VI. Low total add percentage. 

 

My post and reply to Red Line below FYI:

 

Marty,

 

The ASTM CCS test procedure is D5293.

 

The test procedure isn’t included on the data sheet for space consideration, when referring to the cold cranking simulator that is the procedure referenced.  

 

I don’t currently have an “A” for sale, we now have a total of 4, though ocassionally hear about one available locally.

 

Regards,

 

Dave Granquist

 

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Red Line Synthetic Oil

 

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From: Marty N <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2018 6:32 PM
To: Granquist, David <[email protected]>
Subject: [EXTERNAL]Test question:

 

That Redliine CCS is not a number derived from the industry standard ATSM D5293 cold crank simulator testing protocol. It really means little in terms of comparison.   A 172 VI is nice but many other oils have VI's in that range.   Pour point is good, but it is the CCS that really is more important.  And without showing the ASTM D5293 testing number of that CCS, "mind numbing"  is purely subjective.

 

Dave:

 

I got the above in reply (in part) to a post at GM-Trucks.com I made on lubrication. I note that the data sheet does not actually site the ATSM test sequence used. That said I can’t imagine the fellow making this reply has inside information. I can also not imagine Red Line pencil whipping a non-standard test method. Could use your help on this one if you please.

 

Side not on a different topic. Last time we exchanged post I was talking about an “A” I was looking at and it didn’t occur to me until sometime later that your reply might have indicated you might be parting with yours? Did I miss that? Is yours for sale?

 

Regards

Marty

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 6:28 AM, Cowpie said:

And considering that any motor oil is up to 20% additive package, keeping it in suspension is paramount.  

Red Line (non-race) I just had confirmed has a 10% add pack. It isn't ANY motor oil. If fact a high percentage of it isn't mineral oil at all. 

[KARNUT]

I’ve been running an experiment for the last 7 years on a self propelled lawnmower I’ve owned for 18 years. I bought it to help with weight loss and to be productive when walking. The mower is a snapper rear drive model cost 1K new. Mowing season runs longer in the south. I use it generally 1 hour a week and finish up with a rider. I’ve had 3 of those in the same time period. No matter what brand usually the deck goes after 10-12 years. I mow when damp in the AM no dust. Now I’ll get to the point, oil changes. The snapper has been changed 3 times, last time 7 years ago. That’s about as long as I wanted a new one. Can’t do it till that one quits. That and the amsoil experiment we did in the 90s convinces me we’re safe a least as long as the manufacturers says.


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[Doublebase]

Watched a pretty interesting video on direct injection today and it mentioned oil changes, and the importance of motor oil quality. One thing it impressed on me is how important NOACK is for direct injection cars. The lower the better.

 

From what I've read 0w20 is historically higher in NOACK than a heavier wight oil, which of course is an issue seeing as how the 5.3 requires 0w20. Dexos approved oil requires a NOACK bellow 13. The video I watched today recommended a NOACK of 7 or bellow, but it's very difficult to find an oil of 7 or bellow, never mind a 0w20 oil of 7 or bellow (the average is 12.8 for a 0w20).  

 

Redline has been known to have some of the lowest NOACK ratings I've seen but that was older data and these things change almost yearly, if not sooner (and those readings were from a heavier weight oil which is meaningless in 0w20 comparisons).

 

So what I've found is that if you find an 0w20 oil with a NOACK bellow 11, you're doing pretty good. Mobil 1 was around 10.5...Castrol was around 11.5...Valvoline was around 12. Penzzoil Platinum was the lowest I found  around 10.1 or so. Quaker State was also around 10 and change. 

 

I ended up buying Penzzoil Platinum simply because I always have heard good things about it and it was basically the same price as Mobil 1 (which is always competitively priced at walmart ). I recently tried Super Tech 0w20 and it too had surprisingly good numbers overall (NOACK at an amazing 10 but a TBN lower than PP), but I figured for $8 bucks more I could get the Pennzoil. Penzzoil historically has been known as a great cleaning oil as well. Penzzoil Ultra Platinum is supposed to have even better numbers but it is not readily available in stores.

 

So I'll give this a try for a 5,000 mile run. One thing I'm not willing to do is go 7,500 miles...not with DI, timing chains and variable valve timing. I'm all set with that...throw in collapsible lifters as well. I recently installed a catch can and I will be doing CRC induction cleanings at every oil change...or every other oil change if I get lazy. 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Doublebase

[Black02Silverado]

AMSOIL's Signature Series 0w-20 has a NOACK of 8.5 where their lowest in the SS line is the 10w-30 at 4.1.   The SS 5w-20 is 5.8.

[Grumpy Bear]

Red Line High Performance 0W20 NOACK 9

Red Line High Performance 5W20 NOACK 8

Red Line High Performance 5W30 NOACK 6

Red Line High Performance 10W30 NOACK 6

 

Question. When do you run your oil at 482 F for an hour? 

 

Fresh info. 

 

Have a nice day. 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Grumpy Bear

[Doublebase]

9 hours ago, Black02Silverado said:

AMSOIL's Signature Series 0w-20 has a NOACK of 8.5 where their lowest in the SS line is the 10w-30 at 4.1.   The SS 5w-20 is 5.8.

That's impressive but at $12.80 a quart? You're talking $103 or so a 5,000-7,000 mile oil change. 

 

I was only concentrating on the well known, shelf brand, similarly priced oils.

 

But it's good to know Amsoil's signature series is impressive. What is the NOACK on their lesser priced oils?

[Doublebase]

7 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Red Line High Performance 0W20 NOACK 9

Red Line High Performance 5W20 NOACK 8

Red Line High Performance 5W30 NOACK 6

Red Line High Performance 10W30 NOACK 6

 

Question. When do you run your oil at 482 F for an hour? 

 

Fresh info. 

 

Have a nice day. 

 

 

The concern on a direct injection engine would be the backside of the intake valve. Intake valve temperatures operate at 932 degrees Fahrenheit...the backside of the valve I'd venture to guess is normally above 400 degrees Fahrenheit, where the oil is accumulating on valves and causing misfires, power loss, hesitations. 

 

So when do you run your engine at 482 F for an hour? You don't, you run portions of your engine at those temperatures all the time and that is affecting oil burning and carbon deposits on intake valve backsides. 

 

This portion of automotive engineering will be historically classified in the "remember when they first came out with direct injection and they forgot what would happen to the valves". Then laughter. 

[Black02Silverado]

1 hour ago, Doublebase said:

That's impressive but at $12.80 a quart? You're talking $103 or so a 5,000-7,000 mile oil change. 

 

I was only concentrating on the well known, shelf brand, similarly priced oils.

 

But it's good to know Amsoil's signature series is impressive. What is the NOACK on their lesser priced oils?

$12.80 is the retail price.  PM me if you want to know the Preferred Customer wholesale price.

 

I should have posted the rest, sorry wasn't thinking.

OE 0w-16 NOACK 12.4

OE 0w-20 NOACK  12

OE 5w-20 NOACK  8.6

OE 5w-30 NOACK 9.4

OE 10w-30 NOack 5.2

 

XL 0w-20 NOACK  11.8

XL 5w-20 NOACK  8.4

XL 5w-30 NOACK  9.5

XL 10w-30 NOACK 4.8

XL 10w-40 NOACK  5.1

 

Z-Rod 5w-30 NOACK 5.5

Z-Rod 20w50 NOACK  4.0

 

No NOACK info for Dominator Racing Oil

European oil has it but figured no one was interested in that on a GM forum.

Edited September 30, 2018 by Black02Silverado

[diyer2]

My thinking is 3 k mile intervals means my motor gets new/fresh oil, filter and is better than extended changes with expensive oil and filters.

I can do a filter, oil change for $21 with a name brand full synthetic oil and a spec filter.

I like having new oil and filters more frequently.

 

Same page as starman8tdc.

Just different products.

I have used SuperTech products in the past without any issues.

 

[Grumpy Bear]

16 hours ago, Doublebase said:

The concern on a direct injection engine would be the backside of the intake valve. Intake valve temperatures operate at 932 degrees Fahrenheit...the backside of the valve I'd venture to guess is normally above 400 degrees Fahrenheit, where the oil is accumulating on valves and causing misfires, power loss, hesitations. 

 

So when do you run your engine at 482 F for an hour? You don't, you run portions of your engine at those temperatures all the time and that is affecting oil burning and carbon deposits on intake valve backsides. 

 

This portion of automotive engineering will be historically classified in the "remember when they first came out with direct injection and they forgot what would happen to the valves". Then laughter. 

Then this should amuse you.  

 

http://www.sbintl.com/tech_library/articles/tlc_of_your_valves_temperatures_loads_and_corrosive_environment.pdf

 

(quote) Normal temperatures on intakes range from 600° to 800° F in the center of the head of a light duty job to 800°-1000° F for a heavy-duty application. At the seat face, those temperatures range from 200°-400° F on light duty engines, to 400°-600° F on heavy-duty engines. As with seat faces, the under head areas are relatively mild on both types — about 200°-300° F on light duty to 300°-400° F on heavy-duty jobs. (end quote)

 

We are not worried about the combustion side and as for the plenum side...well...not tough duty for Amsoil or Red Line. 

 

Many on this site claim no concern at all for bulk oil temperatures over 235F. Which is it? Deal or no Deal?

 

 http://www.sbintl.com

Edited October 1, 2018 by Grumpy Bear

[Grumpy Bear]

I want great oil performance but do not want to pay for it. I don't want to pay for the product and I don't want to change my oil. I've been lied to by the oil companies and their lawyers until the truth is unrecognizable and know it but their marketing and advertising are what I want, no..."need to hear" so I'll keep doing what I've always done. Believe the liar and trade so often it won't make a difference. I get it. Really. 

 

We can bang numbers and trade write ups till pigs fly OR I can just believe my eyes. There is a difference between driving a vehicle for say 250K with out a noticeable issue, never having a peek inside, and taking the thing apart, putting it to the band saw and measuring every part that touches oil. As long as I can take a motor down with that many miles on it and have it look like new inside right down to the color of the alloy castings....I'll keep using my self proven choices for lubrication products and my change intervals and filters. The more complicated these motors become and the higher the power density becomes the tighter I will cling to those choices. No I'm not afraid to waste a perfectly good 250K motor to a band saw if I can learn what I need from it. (and the body is junk LOL)

 

That does not mean I have but one choice. If I still had a 200 Ford six in my 67 Mustang I'd still be using  Trop-Artic 10W30 and Motorcraft filters changed every 2,500 miles. But as it is what it is; it's Red Line and WIX every 5K until Red Line lies to me or it no longer works. (I would have no issues running Amsoil either). 

 

 

[Black02Silverado]

If anyone is interested in some crazy oil change interval, check out this 40k mile oil change interval on a Honda with 393k miles on it.  Yes the last oil change took 22qts make up which is about a qt in every 2k miles. But before that it was a qt in 10k miles.  This guy is really wanting to see how things go to the extreme.

[Grumpy Bear]

Yikes!!!! 40,000 changes? Interesting read too. By pass filters and pre-lube pumps. 

 

My dad is 90 now. Still trading cars like baseball cards. Puts in a garden every year. One that would kill a man of 20. Mows his own acre lot by hand. Works on cars and trucks. You get the point. His sister a few years his junior can't get out of bed. Big difference between high mileage and good health. If you have them both your still useful. 

Edited October 1, 2018 by Grumpy Bear

[diyer2]

This is like debating many things in life, a personal opinion is the key factor.

I get there is better quality oil than the name brands.

6 quarts of Red Line Professional Series delivered to my door  is $73.

Not available locally.

 

If I were to do 6 k mile intervals and go with Red Line oil and a different filter that cost, lets say $10 that would be $83 per oil change.

As I said, at $21 dollars per change with a name brand oil and a spec oil filter at 3 k mile intervals.

This has worked for me since I began driving. Never had an engine failure of any type and I buy used vehicles.

 

I don't mind doing more oil/filter changes, it's not hard to do.

I sleep just as well as an $83 oil service.

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by diyer2