Post your latest oil change.

[diyer2]

Where would wix XP filters be.

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, OnTheReel said:

My perfect filter would be something built like the Boss but with efficiency of the Ultra. The Boss could probably double as an anvil it’s so overbuilt.

 

Then you want the Purolator ONE or PL****** series. Same can as the BOSS and filters like the FRAM XG. Or should I say, the FRAM filters like the Purolator ONE.  The XG was their response to the ONE. 

 

12 minutes ago, diyer2 said:

Where would wix XP filters be.

 

It is the far-right gray bar on the graph.  Only have data for the Platinum series. Really well-built filter. Quite loose but tight enough to make the list of usable. Better filters are available for less money. First, past ACDelco, to implement the 22 pound bypass spring. 

 

Not that anyone asked: 

 

AMSOIL, even if it filtered as well as the ONE or XG is not a consideration for me solely because of cost. I can buy two of either of the others for the same money. Ditto Royal Purple. Both good filters, just way past my pain point. 

 

Mobil 1 is priced insanely and filters poorly.  Ditto K&N. Neither made the list. 

 

Look guys, I made that chart for my personal use. What I used to make my decisions with. Reinvent that wheel if it makes you comfortable. 

[OnTheReel]

The Wix XP stinks. Not even on the scale in the second one. Maybe good if you want to run it 25k…

[MaverickZ71]

On 10/6/2023 at 2:19 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

 

My lengthy response to GB was lost. Retyped below. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by MaverickZ71

[diyer2]

3 filters same number different boxes. What gives? Best I could do to post pictures of the 3 boxes.

https://smhttp-ssl-69129-sixityauto.nexcesscdn.net/media/catalog/product/cache/cfe34c5762a92ef1323a352e97da0306/3/0/3058202417image1.jpg

 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

12 hours ago, OnTheReel said:

The Wix XP stinks. Not even on the scale in the second one. Maybe good if you want to run it 25k…

 

 

I saw these once. He didn't test the Purolator ONE which would look like the Ultra Guard. Thing is his test was 15 micron and larger. Here's the Pure ONE below 15 microns. Only one I have actual data and chart for so don't ask.  

 

 

Why it matters. (Machinery Lubrication) Wear studies like this one from GM show the relationship between wear and particle size captured at a Beta Ratio of 75 or an efficiency of 98.7%. For the filter above that is 11 microns. It's also 90% efficient all the way down to under 7 microns. More on that later. 

 

I suppose this fella chose to compare the Ultra Guard to the BOSS because they MARKET them to the same level. But the slightly cheaper PURE ONE is a finer filter. He just didn't look. 

 

Okay, bragging rights aside. Even a 'junk' WIX XP (Platinum) will take a motor 200K so why does it matter? Truth is, it doesn't if you don't expect to keep it that long. Who it will matter to is the next buyer and since that guy is me often and knowing humans as I do, I don't buy high mile cars for this exact reason. I have no idea what products were used or how the fella treated it. 

 

Let's assume you drive them into the dirt, like me . Grab the 98.7% mark of the BOSS. It's 45 microns according to @OnTheReel charts and look at the lower graph and find the relative wear index. That would be a 3. Now look at the PURE ONE 98.7% number and that is 11 microns for a wear factor of say about 8. The math then goes 8/3 = 2.67 meaning the motor life is multiplied by that value. So, if we said a door screen would take it 200K lets be conservative and use 250K for the better filtration the BOSS provided.  250K * 2.67 = 667K engine life! 

 

Look, you can only full flow filter so fine before the filter plugs, goes on bypass and you have zero filter, and this DOES happen. Happened with DIZZY whose filter area is too small for such fine filtration. It's way I use the Red PUROLATOR on her. GM had this happening on the Ecotec3 motor at 25 micro and boosted the bypass setting from 12 to 22. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OnTheReel]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

I saw these once. He didn't test the Purolator ONE which would look like the Ultra Guard. Thing is his test was 15 micron and larger. Here's the Pure ONE below 15 microns. Only one I have actual data and chart for so don't ask.  

 

 

Why it matters. (Machinery Lubrication) Wear studies like this one from GM show the relationship between wear and particle size captured at a Beta Ratio of 75 or an efficiency of 98.7%. For the filter above that is 11 microns. It's also 90% efficient all the way down to under 7 microns. More on that later. 

 

I suppose this fella chose to compare the Ultra Guard to the BOSS because they MARKET them to the same level. But the slightly cheaper PURE ONE is a finer filter. He just didn't look. 

 

Okay, bragging rights aside. Even a 'junk' WIX XP (Platinum) will take a motor 200K so why does it matter? Truth is, it doesn't if you don't expect to keep it that long. Who it will matter to is the next buyer and since that guy is me often and knowing humans as I do, I don't buy high mile cars for this exact reason. I have no idea what products were used or how the fella treated it. 

 

Let's assume you drive them into the dirt, like me . Grab the 98.7% mark of the BOSS. It's 45 microns according to @OnTheReel charts and look at the lower graph and find the relative wear index. That would be a 3. Now look at the PURE ONE 98.7% number and that is 11 microns for a wear factor of say about 8. The math then goes 8/3 = 2.67 meaning the motor life is multiplied by that value. So, if we said a door screen would take it 200K lets be conservative and use 250K for the better filtration the BOSS provided.  250K * 2.67 = 667K engine life! 

 

Look, you can only full flow filter so fine before the filter plugs, goes on bypass and you have zero filter, and this DOES happen. Happened with DIZZY whose filter area is too small for such fine filtration. It's way I use the Red PUROLATOR on her. GM had this happening on the Ecotec3 motor at 25 micro and boosted the bypass setting from 12 to 22. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Impressive numbers on the Pure One. Especially given the price point. So I guess the question may be of flow and capacity then when comparing it to the Ultra. I think the Ultra has the edge there but for my purposes it doesn’t really matter. 

[Grumpy Bear]

37 minutes ago, OnTheReel said:

Impressive numbers on the Pure One. Especially given the price point. So I guess the question may be of flow and capacity then when comparing it to the Ultra. I think the Ultra has the edge there but for my purposes it doesn’t really matter. 

 

  It is a question of little significance. Agreed. Both will pass more than the pump can put up and hold more than any reasonable OCI would generate in a healthy motor. 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

Would I miss my guess if I assumed that for most, we tend to look at lubrication in a very narrow and specific set of operating conditions? We seem to ignore anything but what we see in the instruments, if we have any at all, and only once warmed up and puttering down the road. That's like trying to understand a movie from a single frame of film.  Right? 

[MaverickZ71]

On 10/6/2023 at 2:19 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Hi Bret: 

 

Pepper first. FRAM XG and Purolator PL are the same filter efficiency. That's a wash. The Purolator has a coil spring bypass and the FRAM a spring steel type. I like the coil better. It's point and not a range.  Anyway, I found a few FRAM XG on sale and though I'd give them a try.  I prefer the cup type wrench and the FRAM XG has a rubberized coating that make their use nearly impossible. Didn't know that when I bought it.  I also didn't care for the can. I crushed it taking it off. First time in a about 50 years I've had that happen to me. Yea, could have been me ham handing the install. We'll see when I take this last one off. Then back to Purolator PL (Pure One). 

 

BOSS is also a synthetic filter BUT it is looser than the Pure One. Let's bigger cats and dogs through.  In a pinch and if I can't find the Pure One I'll buy them. Great build. 

 

Let's talk about Mann+Hummel then. Yes, they make both Purolator and WIX but not to the same spec as the Pure One. The WIX is also a looser filter like the BOSS or the Mobil 1. It's how they get the extra miles/time claim instead of using more filter area. WIX Platinum has a great can, seal and bypass spring set up. Instead of listing the Beta Ratios I graphed them in terms of PPM of a million remaining. This is a partial listing. BOSCH does NOT have the proper bypass setting of 22 psi. The rest on this list do. Mobil 1 is not on this list nor is the Purolator BOSS but would be about the same as the best WIX shown. K&N is a screen door filter of about 30-35 micron.

 

 

 

Dizzy is an odd bird. Uses a cartridge filter (Hengst) and a very small one in fact. When I use a very efficient filter like the Pure One or XG where the can and spring do not matter, they crush internally. No one can give me the bypass setting that is built into the cap so I'm flying blind on that one. I use the Purolator Red (cheap) as it is the tightest filter I've found that will not crush in service using 5W40 oil. I could likely use the AMSOIL or Royal Purple but for 2K OCI's? Bosch if I can find them would be ideal. 

 

Anyway, hope I hit all the points you asked for. Tune me up if I missed something or the answer generates more questions as often happens. 

 

Grumpy

Thanks again, Grump. 

 

I'm trying to figure out what to do with our 09 Silverado 5.3L with 106k miles. 

 

It had the high/low oil pressure DTC's [on some of my last Shell GasTruck 5W-30 and a new (post e-core) AC Delco PF-48, only a month into that oil change] on a trip when it suddenly got -22F last winter.  An oil and filter change and new GM oil pressure sensor and screen was the fix. 

 

Since then, I've learned about a GM TSB of sorts--it says that trouble code may be caused by a PF-48 becoming clogged, and to use a 'higher capacity' (?) AC Delco Ultraguard UPF-48R if that happens.  Those UPF filters are only available to me online, and I prefer to make such purchases in person.  Likewise, Purolators interest me, but the nearest Advance Auto Parts store is 100 miles away.  Locally available here are the regular AC Delco and new Fram FE (Synthetic Endurance, made by Champ, similar to the AMSoil and Royal Purple filters) oil filters at Wal-Mart, and the Microgard/Wix/XP line of oil filters at several O'Reilly Auto Parts.

 

This 09 Silverado has the AFM turned off, and has lifter noise on startup, especially when cold, since 7k miles, when a 'tight' Fram Ultra oil filter was used only once. It is currently running a 'loose' Wix XP, and the lifter noise is quieter than it has been in years, hot or cold (!)  I only use Dexos1Gen3 rated oil and do 4k mile changes since the lifter noise began, as the GM recommended (back then) conventional oil and OLM indicated 7k oil changes are what caused the AFM troubles in the first place. 

 

Some GM techs on here have advocated switching to the PF-63 sized oil filters, as that is what the newer GM truck V8s mostly use.  Those have higher capacity due to being about 1.5 inches taller, and the bypass valve pressures have been increased from 12 psi to 22+ psi. 

 

I am very interested in using the larger size (PF-63 equivalent), but am not sure about the doubled bypass pressure on the older pickup.  What do you (and any other readers) think about the bypass pressure increase?

 

Thanks for your insight!

Edited October 8, 2023 by MaverickZ71

[MaverickZ71]

8 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Would I miss my guess if I assumed that for most, we tend to look at lubrication in a very narrow and specific set of operating conditions? We seem to ignore anything but what we see in the instruments, if we have any at all, and only once warmed up and puttering down the road. That's like trying to understand a movie from a single frame of film.  Right? 

.  But then again, I never really had to think about such things on any prior vehicles. Thanks again, GM. . Ha

[KARNUT]

My brother in law happened to be visiting this weekend. He’s a high mileage GM driver. He changes  his own oil. He goes to auto zone. He says they do a bundle with Fram extra guard and synthetic oil. He changes every 5K miles. He’s oldest vehicle has 289K is driven to work daily 60 miles each way. 2008 Tahoe. 

[MaverickZ71]

10 hours ago, KARNUT said:

My brother in law happened to be visiting this weekend. He’s a high mileage GM driver. He changes  his own oil. He goes to auto zone. He says they do a bundle with Fram extra guard and synthetic oil. He changes every 5K miles. He’s oldest vehicle has 289K is driven to work daily 60 miles each way. 2008 Tahoe. 

The AFM gods smile on some folks. And IMO, the highway miles help. His does 2 hrs a day on the highway. Ours does an hour a day idling in town on errands, etc., which is twice as hard on everything. 

[KARNUT]

49 minutes ago, MaverickZ71 said:

The AFM gods smile on some folks. And IMO, the highway miles help. His does 2 hrs a day on the highway. Ours does an hour a day idling in town on errands, etc., which is twice as hard on everything. 

My fingers let me down it’s a 06. His most recent is a 13 his wife drives. Their first AFM. It’s sitting currently at 130K. They drive it a lot. During Aggie football ball season he drives to my house 6 hours to stay. Then he goes to home games. I went with him to yesterday’s game 108K in attendance. It was wild. He’s been going about 40 years. I go once in awhile. His girls live about 5 hours away, they visit about once a month. They drive a lot. 

[MaverickZ71]

1 hour ago, KARNUT said:

My fingers let me down it’s a 06. His most recent is a 13 his wife drives. Their first AFM. It’s sitting currently at 130K. They drive it a lot. During Aggie football ball season he drives to my house 6 hours to stay. Then he goes to home games. I went with him to yesterday’s game 108K in attendance. It was wild. He’s been going about 40 years. I go once in awhile. His girls live about 5 hours away, they visit about once a month. They drive a lot. 

Costs a lot to drive a lot these days. Those big games are fun.