The Peckish Synapse

OnTheReel · February 14

2 hours ago, customboss said:

Don’t take the bait, Grumpy posts up and replies with a Euro additized Redline that meets ACEA specs. Totally NOT what I addressed.
ugh.

You tend to fire these things out with birdshot, so it’s hard to follow. I missed your previous post when you alluded to the regular RL HP (presumably). Which is around 400 PPM if memory serves.

Not sure if that’s relevant if he isn’t using that product line anyway, but I do I see where you were going.

Grumpy Bear · February 14

1 hour ago, customboss said:

Totally NOT what I addressed.

Eight post from you since I last posted? Hard to tell what you are addressing. Shotgun approach and all.

You sir are long on opinions. I don't share yours on RLHP 5W30. I don't share it on MTP30K 5W30. I don't share it on RLI 5W30. I don't share it on Torco SR5 5W30 and I don't share it on viscosity, HTHS, D6616 100C HTHS, SSI or the definition of LUBRICITY. I don't share it on Recycled Oil. Get over it and get a grip man. I don't base my maintenance on YOUR OPINIONS. I base it on data, COMMUNICATION OF THE TRUTH and RESULTS.

Blenders for the most part are 'multitasking' product development. Which means they are not doing anything well. Most of them not even passable. Profit first, performance second. Best performance comes from SINGULAR FOCUS.

A few companies have a few products that have this singular focus approach and when that happens some spec are sacrificed for that focus.

MPT30K 5W30 is such a product. Something else the do very well is COMMUNICATE. Below an excerpt from a private communication between they and I. This in response to the PQIA testing and my inquiry into that testing. The rest is none of your business.

[Quote] “MPT Thirty-K Motors oils are formulated without the use of viscosity modifiers. Viscosity modifiers are used by other motor oil companies to provide high and low temperature performance. MPT Thirty-K Motor oils are formulated to maximum high temperature performance while sacrificing low temperature performance. As a result, the cold flow properties (slow moving oil in a cold engine during extreme cold) of our motor oils in many cases will not meet the requirements of the listed specifications. Therefore, we do not recommend the use MPT Thirty-K motors for use in situations where cold starts (below 0 degrees) are a concern.”

As I have mentioned, we blend with a variety of ester base stocks – as many as three for each grade. These esters have changed considerably over the years and have thus affected the CCS numbers. We have always been concerned with high temperature operation and have not spent much time evaluating low temperature. In reviewing the CCS number for Thirty-K 5W30, an accurate current number would be around 7,980 which would be more inline with the PQIA test. We will be updating the data on the website accordingly. [Close quote]

COMMUNICATION. I don't care is has shear stress at temperatures I never used that oil in. This kind of information allows me to tailor my program and products accurately. Michael, unlike you TELLS ME THE TRUTH. Tells me RELAVANT FACTS as did Grandquist at Red Line. THEY supplied me with data and answered all my questions. They just didn't tell me the direction. They gave me the values and recomendations.

You have a good education you don't use very well and that is disappointing.

THERE IS NO PERFECT OIL. You have this idea that one can "have it all'. Well ya can't and first on that list is wear verses economy and as I have show repeatedly and for years the PAO/POE combination allows for enough viscosity IN OPERATION to abate wear with MINIMUAL impact on economy. I post my fuel logs and every oil change made.

Grumpy Bear · February 14

15 minutes ago, OnTheReel said:

You tend to fire these things out with birdshot, so it’s hard to follow. I missed your previous post when you alluded to the regular RL HP (presumably). Which is around 400 PPM if memory serves.

Not sure if that’s relevant if he isn’t using that product line anyway, but I do I see where you were going.

Tell me what defines 'over added'. What is the magic number? Tell me what test anyone has for correlating cat life with phosphorus/sulfur content? What is the drop dead point for moly?

I've used Red Line HP 0 and 5W20 In Honda fours for about 700K miles and yes moly is over 400. 417 to be exact on my last testing of that product 10/16/2018. None of those motors use oil. All had stellar compression and leak down test, new like oil pressures when I sold them, not a fouled plug in the bunch and all were spotless internally. All full SAPS oils. All there had ULEV stickers and passes emissions test ever time. Tell me, cause I want to know how the most evil over added, out of touch base oil blended oil on the planet is messing up my equipment. :crackup:

Bigger question. If my results are this perfect what will RLI or any other oil bring to the party to improve on perfection?

Edited February 14 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · February 14

@customboss

What question would you like me to ask you?

customboss · February 14

54 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

@customboss

What question would you like me to ask you?

Thank you for the reasonable non verbose question my friend and sometime internet enemy! Lol. Answer my posit by posting your oil analysis results of Redline formula non API or ACEA formulation you’ve loved so long. Not Euro you just recently fell in love with.
NO OBFUSCATION please dear Marty.
Or may I post your results of the 4.3?

Grumpy Bear · February 14

What is notable about the VI spec in this graph when compared to the one on a PCMO's data sheet?

Many things.

1.) VI is a calculation of the slope of viscosity change between 40 C and 100 C so this graph, which would be congruent in that range is showing the clear advantage of POA in cold weather.

2.) This graph is the results of the Scanning Brookfield on two 'neat' 5 cSt base oils. NO VM/VII improver yet added.

PDS sheets and Labs showing VI are calculated on the Base + VM package. Are we clear?

3.) IMPORTANT. Note the VI of these 5 cSt fluid. The "Mineral Oil in this graph is a GROUP III/III+ or GTL. Check the Group requirement specs yourself. Don't take my word for it. Look it up.

4.) As #3 is true then claims that Group III's of any stripe, are 'just as good' at PAO is the takeaway some really smart people get from reading of a carefully crafted sentence that leads one to believe that based on a partial truth about other or even perhaps one specific quality.

Afterthoughts:

When Pennzoil introduced Pennzane; this 'super molecule' was one of the first PAO's and cost about $400 a quart according to a source on BITOG so; the can was less than 1% PAO. Marketing that caused a lot of damage and made allot of money. Marketing SUPPORTED BY TRIBOLOGIST TESTIMONY and twisted by sales all under the control of MAJOR BLENDERS. :idiot:

PAO's at the other end of this graph not shown are also superior and that can be enhanced further with selective additions of Esters.

Could the about be true about some other base oils? Maybe but as that data is held back, I'd have to take the word of a group of people that have repeatedly shown over my lifetime they can not be trusted to tell the truth.

Grumpy Bear · February 14

2 minutes ago, customboss said:

Thank you for the reasonable non verbose question my friend and sometime internet enemy! Lol. Answer my posit by posting your oil analysis results of Redline formula non API or ACEA formulation you’ve loved so long. Not Euro you just recently fell in love with.
NO OBFUSCATION please dear Marty.
Or may I post your results of the 4.3?

So you are not going to reply to my request? I asked you a very simple question.

What question do YOU what ME to ASK YOU?

My results are already posted on this forum BTW.

Edited February 14 by Grumpy Bear

customboss · February 14

10 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Tell me what defines 'over added'. What is the magic number? Tell me what test anyone has for correlating cat life with phosphorus/sulfur content? What is the drop dead point for moly?

Simple ….. levels that react with the engine combustion stream pre and post stream.

customboss · February 14

2 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

So you are not going to reply to my request? I asked you a very simple question.

What question do YOU what ME to ASK YOU?

My results are already posted on this forum BTW.

Post your oil analysis we worked for you i pre and post or shut up. I’m happy to pull all the data for you right here in the next few minutes.

Edited February 14 by customboss

Grumpy Bear · February 14

Just now, customboss said:

Simple ….. levels that react with the engine combustion stream pre and post stream.

By that definition all oils are over added. Now it is a matter of degree. A matter not yet defined.

Grumpy Bear · February 14

11 minutes ago, customboss said:

Post your oil analysis we worked for you it up pre and post or shutup.

Still not responsive to the request.

And what authority do you have over me?

Edited February 14 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · February 14

Let her rip tater chip

customboss · February 14

14 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

By that definition all oils are over added. Now it is a matter of degree. A matter not yet defined.

We are talking Redline non api non acea licensed formulas with POE that used to be st least 30% or more now a cut probably of 10% or less. The formulas to ran in Honda and others for years.

customboss · February 14

3 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Let her rip tater chip

Wasn’t there a post Cummins test? TY

Grumpy Bear · February 14

REPOST so it didn't get lost in the garbage that followed.

What is notable about the VI spec in this graph when compared to the one on a PCMO's data sheet?

Many things.

1.) VI is a calculation of the slope of viscosity change between 40 C and 100 C so this graph, which would be congruent in that range is showing the clear advantage of POA in cold weather.

2.) This graph is the results of the Scanning Brookfield on two 'neat' 5 cSt base oils. NO VM/VII improver yet added.

PDS sheets and Labs showing VI are calculated on the Base + VM package. Are we clear?

3.) IMPORTANT. Note the VI of these 5 cSt fluid. The "Mineral Oil in this graph is a GROUP III/III+ or GTL. Check the Group requirement specs yourself. Don't take my word for it. Look it up.

4.) As #3 is true then claims that Group III's of any stripe, are 'just as good' at PAO is the takeaway some really smart people get from reading of a carefully crafted sentence that leads one to believe that based on a partial truth about other or even perhaps one specific quality.

Afterthoughts:

When Pennzoil introduced Pennzane; this 'super molecule' was one of the first PAO's and cost about $400 a quart according to a source on BITOG so; the can was less than 1% PAO. Marketing that caused a lot of damage and made allot of money. Marketing SUPPORTED BY TRIBOLOGIST TESTIMONY and twisted by sales all under the control of MAJOR BLENDERS. :idiot:

PAO's at the other end of this graph not shown are also superior and that can be enhanced further with selective additions of Esters.

Could the about be true about some other base oils? Maybe but as that data is held back, I'd have to take the word of a group of people that have repeatedly shown over my lifetime they can not be trusted to tell the truth.