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The Peckish Synapse

Grumpy Bear

By Grumpy Bear
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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted

Grumpy and I have a problem. It’s knowing to much about how thing outta be. Since that’s outta our control we overcompensate in extremis on things we can control. It’s a control issue. 😭

 

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OnTheReel
OnTheReel

Look no further than the boat world which is mostly what I do for work and fun. I have a Honda BF150 outboard on my tin boat. It’s a 2.4L Accord engine turned on end. In the car it’ll take 0w20. Proba

OnTheReel
OnTheReel

Very cool. I am down to one Olds these days but she’s a keeper. 

Black02Silverado
Black02Silverado

OK, who calls it a water heater and who refers it as a hot water heater.  

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KARNUT Senior Enthusiast

KARNUT

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, customboss said:

Grumpy and I have a problem. It’s knowing to much about how thing outta be. Since that’s outta our control we overcompensate in extremis on things we can control. It’s a control issue. 😭

 

I’m OCD. I don’t drag my obsession into an arena of misery for my spouse. Upon retirement I took on duties around the house that triggered my obsession instead of making my wife miserable. She’s normal laid back. I would create anxiety for her needlessly. Some people can’t help it. Their obsession is seen as normal to them. You’re inferior to them. You’re not as safe me, shame on you. Why can’t you see that? I love information, not preaching. So far in the area of oil and brands. So far most failures I see are other than oil. Everything wears out even humans. I want to get my money’s worth safely, reasonably. My last 3 trucks each paid for the next one. That’s 18 years all under 200K miles. Very little maintenance. Who’s having fun?

diyer2 Senior Enthusiast

diyer2

Posted
Posted

I'll try to help, K.I.S.S.

Amsoil is good enough, you have 3 choices. 

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VicFirth Enthusiast

VicFirth

Posted
Posted (edited)

Something I've noticed.  Amsoil seems to save the group V for their SS line.  Their recent Euro oils show oxidation values under 10, much like new Mobil 1 oils.  In fact, Amsoil XL, high mileage and others all show oxidation under 15 now.  Saving money by cutting the ester out of other lines? 

 

What's interesting to me is the ultra-premium lubricants like Red Line, Torco, Amsoil SS, HPL etc. all have one common denominator - they all use a good dose of group V. 

 

Mobil has moved on to either using AN or something more exotic and newer.  I question whether some of the so called "cleanliess boosters" found in patents can match the tried-and-true ester solvency.  

 

Amsoil also seems to half ass their Euro oils.  SS is their top of the line, no chemical restrictions oil.  With the Euro it's as if they're on the fence barely any better than what you can find off th shelf.

 

"Mobil 1 has developed a breakthrough engine oil in collaboration with Honda Research and Development and Red Bull Racing Honda. The result of a multi-year research program to improve on the high standards set by the current Mobil 1 used by the Red Bull Racing Honda team.

ExxonMobil evaluated non-traditional lubricant components in pursuit of break-through performance. As an example, materials from the cosmetics industry were incorporated to enhance the product’s protective properties. The complex formulation is a careful balance of materials each designed to deliver specific performance benefits including more than 25% bio-sourced content and low ash additive chemistry."

 

 

"What was a long shot a few years ago - a vision of a low ash, high temperature, low friction engine oil that incorporates bio-based components became a reality this year, thanks to the efforts of our whole team, in collaboration with Honda and Red Bull.

"We believe that this new platform will offer us opportunities into the future.""

 

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/how-secret-cosmetics-chemical-is-helping-red-bulls-f1-charge/6621339/

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by VicFirth
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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, VicFirth said:

Something I've noticed.  Amsoil seems to save the group V for their SS line.  Their recent Euro oils show oxidation values under 10, much like new Mobil 1 oils.

 

What's interesting to me is the ultra premium lubricants like Red Line, Torco, Amsoil SS, HPL etc. all have one common denominator - they all use a good dose of group V. 

 

Mobil has moved on to either using AN or something more exotic and new.  I question whether some of the so called "cleanliess boosters" found in patents can match the tried and true ester solvency.  

 

Amsoil also seems to half ass their Euro oils.  SS is their top of the line, no chemical restrictions oil.  With the Euro it's as if they're on the fence barely any better than what you can find off th shelf.

 

"Mobil 1 has developed a breakthrough engine oil in collaboration with Honda Research and Development and Red Bull Racing Honda. The result of a multi-year research program to improve on the high standards set by the current Mobil 1 used by the Red Bull Racing Honda team.

ExxonMobil evaluated non-traditional lubricant components in pursuit of break-through performance. As an example, materials from the cosmetics industry were incorporated to enhance the product’s protective properties. The complex formulation is a careful balance of materials each designed to deliver specific performance benefits including more than 25% bio-sourced content and low ash additive chemistry."

 

 

 

For thos of us that want high oxidation FTIR readings Just try RLI HD stuff and you get a lot more of that cosmetics based veggie ester instead of the lanolin based esters from XOM.  RLI pumps 150 abs units of Oxidation via FTIR usually. 

 

They also use a tailored add pack for Veggie based esters unlike RL which uses off the shelf stuff that we all used for 40 years.  

The total package is what we want.  

 

@VicFirth what's the ambient or clean oxidation via FTIR of RESTORE AND PROTECT? Betting its low.  So how does it clean? 

 

Could Amsoil being doing something that cleans or keeps clean similarly in their non Signature Series formulations? 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 2
customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, diyer2 said:

I'll try to help, K.I.S.S.

Amsoil is good enough, you have 3 choices. 

Lower cost than Redline too. Shipped to your door with preferred customer from @Black02Silverado. 

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
  • Author
Posted
39 minutes ago, customboss said:

Grumpy and I have a problem. It’s knowing to much about how thing outta be. Since that’s outta our control we overcompensate in extremis on things we can control. It’s a control issue. 😭

 

 

Never looked at it like that but it does have the 'ring of truth' to it. 🤔

 

*************************

General comment not tossed at @customboss

 

If Shohei Ohtani were to come here and speak at length about how to pitch a shutout, would you listen if pitching were of interest to you? Likely. But what if you had no interest? If you though yourself equal? If he just dumped your sister? If he disagreed with you? Perhaps not. Seems for some, what it true is irrelevant if it gets in the way of ________________________. 

 

Would you expect him to submit to the lie he only has a .120 BA?. Not a claim you make in secret to his face but one you promote before a crowd? 

 

Would he? Remain silent? While you slander him? Ya know....he might be that big a guy. Me...I have trouble with liars. Especially when they make it personal. Too Trumpy for me. 😬

 

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
  • Author
Posted
8 minutes ago, customboss said:

For thos of us that want high oxidation FTIR readings Just try RLI HD stuff and you get a lot more of that cosmetics based veggie ester instead of the lanolin based esters from XOM.  RLI pumps 150 abs units of Oxidation via FTIR usually. 

 

They also use a tailored add pack for Veggie based esters unlike RL which uses off the shelf stuff that we all used for 40 years.  

The total package is what we want.  

 

@VicFirth what's the ambient or clean oxidation via FTIR of RESTORE AND PROTECT? Betting its low.  So how does it clean? 

 

Could Amsoil being doing something that cleans or keeps clean similarly in their non Signature Series formulations? 

 

 

 

 

 

Two questions @customboss. How do AN's register in oxidation? Os-PAG? 

VicFirth Enthusiast

VicFirth

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, customboss said:

For thos of us that want high oxidation FTIR readings Just try RLI HD stuff and you get a lot more of that cosmetics based veggie ester instead of the lanolin based esters from XOM.  RLI pumps 150 abs units of Oxidation via FTIR usually. 

 

They also use a tailored add pack for Veggie based esters unlike RL which uses off the shelf stuff that we all used for 40 years.  

The total package is what we want.  

 

@VicFirth what's the ambient or clean oxidation via FTIR of RESTORE AND PROTECT? Betting its low.  So how does it clean? 

 

Could Amsoil being doing something that cleans or keeps clean similarly in their non Signature Series formulations? 

 

 

 

 

So far no one has cracked the code with the Valvoline RP.  Remains a mystery and unique.  Virgin oxidation value is 6 for Restore and Protect.  It uses boron ester additive at about 166ppm. 

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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, VicFirth said:

So far no one has cracked the code with the Valvoline RP.  Remains a mystery and unique.  Virgin oxidation value is 6 for Restore and Protect.  It uses boron ester additive at about 166ppm. 

We can't see the active ingredient in what we see as oil analysis here. 

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VicFirth Enthusiast

VicFirth

Posted
Posted (edited)

On the ROC, they subjected M1 ESP 5w30 and M1 ESP 0w20 to the shear stability test. What they found was the viscosity went up after the test. This is likely due to the diblock polymers. Per ROC, they also claim there could be some mPAO in current SP M1 5w30 ESP.

"Both of these structures have good thickening efficiency and shear stability index. However, only the diblock is able to form self-assembled micelle structures when dissolved in base oil, which provides unique performance benefits in modern formulations."

 

image.thumb.png.35eaacbaf94a4b9c5ea5cf84c720f9c4.png

 

 

 

 

Conclusions

The work undertaken by Infineum clearly demonstrates the advantages diblock HSD VMs can deliver to crankcase lubricants. The tuneable molecular structures, excellent soot handling capabilities and good shear stability mean they can provide significant benefits.

However, to meet evolving industry requirements, Infineum has optimised the HSD diblock chemistry so that it delivers superior performance in lower viscosity grade oils formulated using higher quality base stocks at lower polymer treat rate than current diblock technology. These advanced chemistries are being used to create lubricants that can help automotive OEMs as they work to address today’s key drivers for change.image.thumb.png.5f3bb96be6789ecc0426523ee29a4abb.png

Edited by VicFirth
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VicFirth Enthusiast

VicFirth

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, customboss said:

We can't see the active ingredient in what we see as oil analysis here. 

It appears to truly be a new class of oil in what it can achieve using unconventional method/additive or base oil. 

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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, VicFirth said:

I'm not custom but I can tell you AN won't show any oxidation value.  Mobil is using some in their EP line and TSUV oil.

 

image.thumb.png.26fee86f19679bbd76b9682797d00eec.png

 

 

Correct 

Let me look at my Dupont data on OS PAG the best way to detect is glycol testing via FTIR 

 

Redline used a water soluble PAG in years past that showed as glycol. 

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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, VicFirth said:

On the ROC, they subjected M1 ESP 5w30 and M1 ESP 0w20 to the shear stability test. What they found was the viscosity went up after the test. This is likely due to the diblock polymers. Per ROC, they also claim there could be some mPAO in current SP M1 5w30 ESP.

"Both of these structures have good thickening efficiency and shear stability index. However, only the diblock is able to form self-assembled micelle structures when dissolved in base oil, which provides unique performance benefits in modern formulations."

 

image.thumb.png.35eaacbaf94a4b9c5ea5cf84c720f9c4.png

 

image.thumb.png.5f3bb96be6789ecc0426523ee29a4abb.png

I hate the Putinite Russians and I used to work for Porsche there.  Glad Porsche departed Russian production after Ukraine travesty.  Not attacking YOU VicFirth. 

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