The Peckish Synapse

[customboss]

10 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

I used to be, when I had good ears, quite an audiophile. 1970's component days and all. So my favorite store had 'listening rooms' where they would set up your choice of equipment and you brought your own wax and you got to listen, mix and compare to your hearts delight. At the end of the day I walked out with a $150 Pioneer belt drive table with a $150 upgrade Osawa low mass graphite head and reverse wound MIC armature with Sapphire stylist. To me and to the "O" scope I could detect no difference that made a difference between it and a $2K Bang & Olufsen direct drive. 

 

When I look into a motor at life cycle end of the vehicle and see it as clean as the day it was build and measurements still well inside new spec I don't ask what more I need from my oil. I ask what more I need to know to keep the thing it is propelling last longer. It has to matter to make a difference. 

 

I never looked at the lower shelves of AMSOIL or Red Line or MPT or TORCO because they are similar to what it on the shelf at Walmart, Amazon or O'Reilly's. I've used those oils and have suffered using them. I watched my father use those same shelf oils with great success but never at the OCI's being recommended. By the time the OCI got short enough to get a similar cleaning result it cost more than RLHP. 

 

 

HUH???   

[customboss]

Development of Modified Pag (Polyalkylene Glycol) High VI High Fuel Efficient Lubricant for LDV Applications

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Abstract

Engine oils play a critical role in friction reduction. Improvements in engine oil technology steadily improved fuel economy as the industry moved through ILSAC GF-1 to GF-5 specifications. These improvements were influenced by changes in base oil chemistry, development of new friction modifiers and their treat levels, and the total additive package consisting of various other components. However, the improvements are incremental and further fuel consumption reduction opportunities are becoming more challenging. Polyalkylene glycol (PAG) based engine oils are being explored as a step forward for significant fuel consumption reduction. Although PAG fluids are used in many industrial applications, its application as an engine oil has been explored in a limited way. The objective of this project is to deep dive in exploring the applicability of PAG technology in engine oil, understanding the benefits, and limitations, elucidating the mechanism(s) for friction benefits, if any, and finally recommending how to address any limitations. The project was designed in four steps, starting with selection of lubricant technology, followed by friction and wear evaluations in laboratory bench tests which are relatively simple and inexpensive and also served as a screener for further evaluation. Selected formulations were chosen for more complex engine component levelmore »

 

Authors:

Gangopadhyay, Arup ^[1]; McWatt, D. G. ^[1]; Zdrodowski, R. J. ^[1]; Liu, Zak ^[1]; Elie, Larry ^[1]; Simko, S. J. ^[1]; Erdemir, Ali ^[2]; Ramirez, Giovanni ^[2]; Cuthbert, J. ^[3]; Hock, E. D. ^[3]

---

+ Show Author Affiliations

Publication Date:

2015-09-30

Research Org.:

Ford Motor Company, Dearborn, MI (United States); Argonne National Lab. (ANL), Argonne, IL (United States)

Sponsoring Org.:

USDOE

OSTI Identifier:

1234442

DOE Contract Number:

EE0005388

Resource Type:

Technical Report

Country of Publication:

United States

Language:

English

Subject:

36 MATERIALS SCIENCE; 32 ENERGY CONSERVATION, CONSUMPTION, AND UTILIZATION

 

 

Edited February 20, 2025 by customboss

[Grumpy Bear]

6 minutes ago, customboss said:

 

Boy do you have to be careful when you Google that company! Say MOTOR OIL afterwards or you wind up on a dirt road in Mississippi. 

 

So what happened to these guys? 

[Grumpy Bear]

5 minutes ago, customboss said:

file:///media/fuse/drivefs-d11db967b82af1bb5bfe474b2bac9d81/root/VOA%20&%20Reference%20&%20Labs:contacts/NOXIDANT%20fuel%20additive%20FORD%20PAG%20study%20%20/FORD%20PAG%20tests%20%201234442.html

 

 

Broken link? I can't open it. 

 

Break time.  

Edited February 20, 2025 by Grumpy Bear

[customboss]

3 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Boy do you have to be careful when you Google that company! Say MOTOR OIL afterwards or you wind up on a dirt road in Mississippi. 

 

So what happened to these guys? 

1974 paper 

 

1 minute ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Broken link? I can't open it. 

 

Break time.  

updated

[customboss]

8 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Boy do you have to be careful when you Google that company! Say MOTOR OIL afterwards or you wind up on a dirt road in Mississippi. 

 

So what happened to these guys? 

1974 paper 

 

6 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Broken link? I can't open it. 

 

Break time.  

updated

[customboss]

Just now, customboss said:

1974 paper 

 

updated

[customboss]

I just remember them going broke about 1976 when Mobil1 came out and Amsoil was going strong with POE primary base oils. 

[customboss]

I can't find FTIR OXD reading of clean PAG or OSP. I'll share @Grumpy Bear if I can find it. 

 

[VicFirth]

B/S Labs finally getting with the program.  Also, notice in the Red Line UOA that TAN>TBN.  Oil is shot and now acidic. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2025 by VicFirth

[customboss]

6 minutes ago, VicFirth said:

B/S Labs finally getting with the program.  Also, notice in the Red Line UOA that TAN>TBN.  Oil is shot and now acidic. 

 

 

 

 

That's the reactivity I speak to.  

[customboss]

Clean reference Lubrication Engineers 5w30 we tested in VW with APR tune and accessories. 
 

Note glycol trace. Grp III BASE 

That’s an additive like Redline used in past. 
 

I found my 1992 paperwork from Roy Howell original formulator for Redline. 
 

[customboss]

[customboss]

https://vintagetriumphregister.org/lubricants-redline/
 

read up on this 1992 Redline read on a in person meeting with Roy Howell. 
 

I’ll post up pages if needed. 
 

 

[diyer2]

My 2 cents.

I use Amsoil OE motor oil in our Hyundai, 2.4 L non turbo. Quieter motor and stopped slight oil usage. I'm doing 5k OCI's, I'm not going to rely on motor oil to keep my engines clean, oil changes work for me. 

I also use Amsoil OE trans fluid in this car which has no trans filter, smoother shifts.

Amsoil fluids in diffs and transfer case. I still believe better products than off the shelf stuff. 

 

Same experience with my Kawasaki SXS, this motor lives between 5k - 7k rpms, red lines at 9k. Quieter motor and drivetrain with Amsoil products.

 

Yes better quality oil, fluids are available but I just change mine more. Pulling a valve cover will show how clean/dirty things are, which I have done.