The Peckish Synapse

Grumpy Bear · February 21

15 hours ago, customboss said:

https://vintagetriumphregister.org/lubricants-redline/

read up on this 1992 Redline read on a in person meeting with Roy Howell.

I’ll post up pages if needed.

That was an excellent read. Thank you. It corrected an idea or two AND added additional facts to incomplete ideas I have had, expanding my knowledge, and as such, reinforced many many more.

This was an excellent example of how I learn best. When I'm told I'm wrong I pay very close attention to the next thing said.

IF that thing reinstructs me to a truth I get all warm and happy. :ughdance:

If that thing instructs me to submit...Houston, weeeee have a problem.

If that thing tells me I'm just wrong but can't be told what's right then I :rollin:

IF that next thing is ridicule :mad: then :idiot:

Edited February 21 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · February 21

Race Oil are and have always been POE. HP and HP Euro, PAO/POE blends and Professional Group III/IV blends.

Published in Cycle World.

[sniped from a BITOG post by Tim Vipond ]

[Quote} I also found this from:http://www.pashnit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9877

Ok, so here is the history lesson of why Red Line is #1. What they don't say is it started out as a small company called "All Proof", how do I know that? I knew the original founder Pete Filice.

Since 1979, the privately-held Red Line Synthetic Oil Corporation has grown to manufacture over 80 quality products, including motor oils, gear oils, assembly lubes, fuel additives, and its popular Water Wetter cooling additive for the automotive, motorcycle, marine, and industrial markets. Based in Benicia, California, the company earned a reputation with racers and enthusiasts alike for creating products that perform and protect better than any on the market, regardless of price.

Originally founded by president Tim Kerrigan and Peter Filice (retired) to produce lubricants for the racing industry, Red Line Oil now distributes a diverse line of products in North America, Europe, Australia, and Japan.

Developing and marketing among the most sophisticated lubricants in the world, Red Line’s products are designed to literally outperform for the task at hand. In 1986, the addition of Cornell-degreed Roy Howell as chief chemist brought Red Line Synthetic Oil Corporation into a league of its own, with a knowledge of available technologies, an ability to respond to technical challenges, and the ability to satisfy the needs of the performance industry.

Red Line Oil’s team of chemists and blenders formulate fully-synthetic oils and chemically-advanced additives using only the world’s finest base stocks. This makes Red Line Oil the premium product on the shelf. It’s not designed to be the cheapest—it’s built to be the best. Rather than cutting costs by blending into polyalphaolefin base stock for its motor oil, Red Line Oil only uses superior poly ester-based products—resulting in lubricants that are extremely stable at high temperatures while providing superior film strength at lower viscosities where more power can be produced.

The world’s top racing teams and most discriminating enthusiasts use Red Line Oil products exclusively. There may be a different sponsor on the outside, but chances are its Red Line Oil on the inside. [Close quote]

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There is a bit of double speak in this post that I highlighted in bold. The RACE line, Red Bottle, oils are still fully POE. The High Performance Line, white bottle, to the best of my knowledge never has been. Note stocks, plural, underlined preceding the next bold section. Then last paragraph segregating Race from Enthusiasts and interjecting "productS" in a flashy commercial finish.

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I'll keep my choice with more confidence that ever.

What a great exchange we are having!!

customboss · February 21

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

That was an excellent read. Thank you. It corrected an idea or two AND added additional facts to incomplete ideas I have had, expanding my knowledge, and as such, reinforced many many more.

This was an excellent example of how I learn best. When I'm told I'm wrong I pay very close attention to the next thing said.

IF that thing reinstructs me to a truth I get all warm and happy.

If that thing instructs me to submit...Houston, weeeee have a problem.

If that thing tells me I'm just wrong but can't be told what's right then I

IF that next thing is ridicule then

Remember I can’t remember.

customboss · February 21

Grumpy discuss Phomblin. I think it might be the secretive CMOC ?

Grumpy Bear · February 21

45 minutes ago, customboss said:

Grumpy discuss Phomblin. I think it might be the secretive CMOC ?

https://www.syensqo.com/en/brands/fomblin-pfpe-lubricants/faq

I know what I read and I read it in the above link. I'll look back for hints on CMOC in the previous post on this topic.

Grumpy Bear · February 22

20 hours ago, customboss said:

Grumpy discuss Phomblin. I think it might be the secretive CMOC ?

CMOC or short for "Chelate Metal Organic Compound".

The trade name Fomblin® PFPE identifies a family of synthetic lubricants entirely composed of carbon, oxygen and fluorine, belonging to the class of perfluoropolyethers

Non of those are metalic elements so CMOC and Fomblin are not the same or even related to each other.

https://www.unpchemicals.com/resources/chelating-effect-of-metal-deactivators.html

Fair discussion of CMOC's

customboss · February 22

3 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

CMOC or short for "Chelate Metal Organic Compound".

The trade name Fomblin® PFPE identifies a family of synthetic lubricants entirely composed of carbon, oxygen and fluorine, belonging to the class of perfluoropolyethers

Non of those are metalic elements so CMOC and Fomblin are not the same or even related to each other.

https://www.unpchemicals.com/resources/chelating-effect-of-metal-deactivators.html

Fair discussion of CMOC's

CMOC was the lubricant additive we used to get improved wear and ring efficiency’s on old tech, retarded injection timing, pre EGR diesels in the engine testing purported to be for centrifugal oil filters.

Edited February 22 by customboss

customboss · February 22

Just now, customboss said:

That’s the lubricant additive we used to get improved wear and ring efficiency’s on old tech, retarded injection timing, pre EGR diesels in the engine testing purported to be for centrifugal oil filters.

Source was Italian Edison

customboss · February 22

Just now, customboss said:

Source was Italian Edison

You will not see this additive in used or clean reference oil analysis we see here normally.

customboss · February 22

1 hour ago, customboss said:

You will not see this additive in used or clean reference oil analysis we see here normally.

PFE Reduces ring friction really well and as a FM and anti wear additive it’s also good in wind generation gear boxes.

Edited February 22 by customboss

customboss · February 22

53 minutes ago, customboss said:

Source was Italian Edison

Both additives

customboss · February 22

1 hour ago, customboss said:

Source was Italian Edison

Grumpy Bear · February 22

2 hours ago, customboss said:

CMOC was the lubricant additive we used to get improved wear and ring efficiency’s on old tech, retarded injection timing, pre EGR diesels in the engine testing purported to be for centrifugal oil filters.

Could it be the family of additives XOM and Shell use in premium gasolines?

Grumpy Bear · February 23

Spitball Bases & Adds

Seems bases run in two general categories, those that are used and those that are not. Too simple? Look, the ones not being currently used can be interesting and even good entertainment and yet useless to the guy trying to make a choice.

Ditto additives.

Know I don't know where everyone went to school so I don't know what their common experience (common sense) may be telling them, but given my background the base oil supports the machine and the additives support the base. So when I make a choice I'm looking base first, then additives and not visa-versa.

Polyol Esters (NPG) are made from reacting a monobasic acid and a polyhedric alcohols.

These polyhedric alcohols are synthesized. They can be made from diisobutylene which is made from products of mineral oil (Crude oil). OR they can be made from vegetable oil triglycerides and when made from vegetable oils are called Estolides. It's a bit more complicated but the end structure for both sources is a Neopentyl Polyol structure.

The differences between the two are mainly Ecology. One is renewable and the other is not.

I went to all this trouble to explain that of all the base oils being used the Polyols are at the top of the food chain.

[link]

[Quote} In general, polyol esters represent the highest performance level available for high temperature applications at a reasonable price. Although they cost more than many other types of synthetics, the benefits often combine to make this chemistry the most cost effective in severe environment applications. The primary benefits include extended life, higher temperature operation, reduced maintenance and downtime, lower energy consumption, reduced smoke and disposal, and biodegradability. [Close quote].

Comparing the tables in the previous post https://vintagetriumphregister.org/lubricants-redline/ showing the useful range of the various bases with the actual temperatures inside a motor.

The only downside is COST Period. Full Stop. Regardless of the source of the alcohols'.

AN's can't do this. PAO's can't do this and no amount of processing will even get a mineral based oil to this level. It's why it's used in Jet Engines. Now, that said....

The percent of POE/Estolide present and WHAT it is blended with matters HUGE. All this before the add package is even considered.

That enough for tonight.