Full Synthetic is NOT 100% Synthetic, it’s a marketing gimmick! Amsoil is real 100% Synthetic motor oil!

TXGREEK · September 6, 2019

I miss ordered my lubrication lot for my 100K service leaving me with out 75W90 Red Line and a few extra quarts of Red Line D6. Rats!! Unable to get my preferred and having an AMSOIL dealer local I bought 3 quarts of 75W90 Severe Gear. My second buy of an AMSOIL product. (Sorry Nick, it was short notice like hours not a day). YIKES! 3 quarts cost over $60!!!!

Here's what I know. Red Line and AMSOIL are a PAO/Ester blend. I even know which ester is used in the Red Line. I do not with the AMSOIL. There are several and none are bad choices. Some are just better choices. I know both use 'synthetic' base oils for the additive package.

I know Mobil 1 USE TO BE a full PAO with a mineral oil base oil add pack. I know since they lost their lawsuit with Castrol it is now AT BEST a Group III 'synthesized' fully hydrogenated mineral oil. No better than Quaker State UD. No idea on the base oil add pack. I know Mobil made this change without informing the consumer and kept charging like it was something it was not. I know the 'Law' permits such deceit.

I know that in my personal testing over hundreds of thousands of miles in both water and air cooled equipment which one runs coolest. I know why.

I know that film strength tests, cylinder, four ball, cone and plate, etc. test oils at a pressure only a motor out of oil would experience. I know that Esters, any of them, have an affinity for ferrous metals and ELIMINATE dry starts even after a year. I know the daily dry start is the root of the majority of engine 'normal' non stress related wear.

I know you can run a motor a very long time on any good Group III mineral oil but I also know it will run longer, cooler and suffer fewer oil related required repairs if you keep it long enough to exceed the protection of a Group III. I know most people don't and could care less about the second buyer.

I know that as long as Phillips (Red Line) and AMSOIL stay transparent they are my FIRST choice.

That's what I know.

What you know and sharing your long experience matters and is very relevant to this discussion [emoji1303]

It’s mostly about getting the more Bang for your buck. Everyone should check out the price difference, what you get and be the judge for yourselves.

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O_J_Simpson · September 6, 2019

Is it Dexos 2 certified? Some oils are claiming they meet Dexos 2 based on independent testing but they can't pass the certified test so they don't market as certified. (Consumer engines not blowing up after purchasing the product is independent testing.)

TXGREEK · September 6, 2019

Is it Dexos 2 certified? Some oils are claiming they meet Dexos 2 based on independent testing but they can't pass the certified test so they don't market as certified. (Consumer engines not blowing up after purchasing the product is independent testing.)

Amsoil surpasses Dexos

Dexos is a GM product, not a standard.

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Grumpy Bear · September 6, 2019

45 minutes ago, TXGREEK said:

marketing firms only care about how to physiologically manipulate the consumer into buying their clients products. Good luck and God Bless!

I took marketing for two years. A class in manipulation and learning to lie from the heart without incurring a lawsuit.

27 minutes ago, TXGREEK said:

It’s mostly about getting the more Bang for your buck. Everyone should check out the price difference, what you get and be the judge for yourselves.

I THINK that most people buy oil looking to get the "most BANG for the buck" ON/FROM the oil. I BELIEVE people believe that if the oil cost twice as much it should be used twice as long thus run it three times as long and comparing the two results conclude one is as good as the other BASED ON something under 150K miles.

I believe that some who do test oil and set their limits based on testing look mainly at the residual TBN alone and try to run that to as close to zero as possible. Problem with that idea is that sludge forms when the Base number (TBN) and ACID value (TAN) cross paths. That is an unpredictable number that is well ahead of zero. TBN depletes and Acid values rise. Potted they cross and when they do...it's never good.

18 minutes ago, O_J_Simpson said:

Is it Dexos 2 certified? Some oils are claiming they meet Dexos 2 based on independent testing but they can't pass the certified test so they don't market as certified. (Consumer engines not blowing up after purchasing the product is independent testing.)

My good man. 'Certified' means, in this context, that the oil company has paid a sum of $$$$ to GM for A license. Granted this license is granted to oils the meet certain 'MINIMUM' specifications for the API service spec (example API SN plus) shown certified in the oil containers SAE circle. Ergo if the oil has the circle and the circle contains the GM required service spec then it meets the spec regardless if the company PAID to receive the DEXOS 2 license. This IS marketing. That DEXOS label is the Cliff notes to the API sticker someone is too lazy or to ignorant to read.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · September 6, 2019

14 minutes ago, TXGREEK said:

Note the lowest line in the GREEN. dexos 1 is a minimum detergent specification. Esters without a chemical additive exceed this spec. GEN 2 is a spec for ash content. That spec is met by the SN plus API label.

KARNUT · September 6, 2019

Without all the technical language and nearly 30 years of use on hundreds of equipment and vehicles. I can say Amsoil is the real deal of extended synthetics. The changes in modern engines ( cylinder deactivation) may have lesson the extended in miles. Thus raising the cost in oil changes to gain maybe a few miles per gallon with maintenance cost. I’ve seen the results in usage, money saved by going extended. Used as directed it’s not expensive. If people want to change more often it doesn’t hurt, just cost more. I’ve never seen in 30 years a failure using this product as directed. Driving a vehicle pass 200K miles is not something I would do. Engine longevity would be the lest of my concern at that point.

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Grumpy Bear · September 6, 2019

1 hour ago, KARNUT said:

I’ve never seen in 30 years a failure using this product as directed. Driving a vehicle pass 200K miles is not something I would do. Engine longevity would be the lest of my concern at that point.

Maybe why you've never seen an oil related failure? Just a thought.

That million mile Ford Flathead I talk about from time to time never saw a drop of synthetic. It also never saw an oil change go past 1,500 miles either. Talk to my father which gives us a look futher back in time and people changed oil every 500 miles.

3,000 mile OCI's was a 70's "oil crisis' marketing scare before synthetics to get people to double the intervals of service. Oil claims were aplenty then as well about how more advanced the "NEW" mineral oil technology was. The truth was much darker.

When I started using the original Mobil 1 in my Honda's the OCI was 3,000 miles. Double my old intervals. When I switched to Red Line esters I increased that to 7,500 miles or 5 X the previous interval and since GDI I've pulled that back to 5,000 or 3.3 X the 'old standard'. If that isn't extended I don't know what one would call it.

15K, 20K, 25K and there's even an oil that claims it never needs to be changed. They sell add oil and an add pack booster. Give you a filter change interval. Their are people that jump off cliffs with a rope just a shade shorter than the fall too. I'm not one of them. :crackup:

At any rate your reply gives an excellent point of reference for your experience and comments on that experience. Makes it way more useful that way. Thanks!! :thumbs:

Edited September 6, 2019 by Grumpy Bear

KARNUT · September 6, 2019

Maybe why you've never seen an oil related failure? Just a thought. [emoji848]

That million mile Ford Flathead I talk about from time to time never saw a drop of synthetic. It also never saw an oil change go past 1,500 miles either. Talk to my father which gives us a look futher back in time and people changed oil every 500 miles.

3,000 mile OCI's was a 70's "oil crisis' marketing scare before synthetics to get people to double the intervals of service. Oil claims were aplenty then as well about how more advanced the "NEW" mineral oil technology was. The truth was much darker.

When I started using the original Mobil 1 in my Honda's the OCI was 3,000 miles. Double my old intervals. When I switched to Red Line esters I increased that to 7,500 miles or 5 X the previous interval and since GDI I've pulled that back to 5,000 or 3.3 X the 'old standard'. If that isn't extended I don't know what one would call it.

15K, 20K, 25K and there's even an oil that claims it never needs to be changed. They sell add oil and an add pack booster. Give you a filter change interval. Their are people that jump off cliffs with a rope just a shade shorter than the fall too. I'm not one of them.

At any rate your reply gives an excellent point of reference for your experience and comments on that experience. Makes it way more useful that way. Thanks!!

No, I’ve seen heavy equipment with our tree cutters run at redline hour after hour for 10K to 20K hours with no oil used on 500 hours oil changes. Same with my hauling trucks. My brother ( braver than me) put an Amsoil filter system on his 95 big daddy Ram. No oil change for 60,000 miles. An Amsoil backed test. I’ve mostly backed off extreme extended. Oil is cheap insurance. In the vehicles I use Amsoil I’m going extended enough to cover the cost difference. In vehicles I’m confident using it in.

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TXGREEK · September 6, 2019

My very own experience going from Mobil1 Annual Protection is that I’ve actually noticed my engine running much smoother and much less of that GM tick to almost zero sound. This indicates to me that my engine is getting better lubricity. In addition, my engine is getting not only much better lubrication but smoother running engine means less wear and tear.

In all honesty, if you’ve got a pick from two USED identical model vehicles with identical motors identical mileage same oil change intervals etc, which one would you rather have, the vehicle run on 100% Synthetic or the vehicle run on Full Synthetic?

My choice is without a doubt, 100% Synthetic!

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Grumpy Bear · September 6, 2019

3 hours ago, KARNUT said:

No, I’ve seen heavy equipment with our tree cutters run at redline hour after hour for 10K to 20K hours with no oil used on 500 hours oil changes. Same with my hauling trucks. My brother ( braver than me) put an Amsoil filter system on his 95 big daddy Ram. No oil change for 60,000 miles. An Amsoil backed test. I’ve mostly backed off extreme extended. Oil is cheap insurance. In the vehicles I use Amsoil I’m going extended enough to cover the cost difference. In vehicles I’m confident using it in.

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That's allot of hours. Were these gas motors or diesel? You know me Stan. I love to learn new things.

KARNUT · September 6, 2019

That's allot of hours. Were these gas motors or diesel? You know me Stan. I love to learn new things.

We were, are OEM or dealers with Versatile- Ford, Caterpillar, Barco, JohnDeerto name a few. Diesels of course.

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Grumpy Bear · September 6, 2019

1 hour ago, KARNUT said:

We were, are OEM or dealers with Versatile- Ford, Caterpillar, Barco, JohnDeerto name a few. Diesels of course.

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Million miles is just getting broke in then. :ughdance:

Think a gas motor would run fully loaded at the redline for 10K - 20K hours?

If build by Gibbs or Woods Brothers maybe what, 5 hours? Yea, not a thing I, personally, would hang my gas motor hat on.

KARNUT · September 6, 2019

Million miles is just getting broke in then.

Think a gas motor would run fully loaded at the redline for 10K - 20K hours? [emoji848]

If build by Gibbs or Woods Brothers maybe what, 5 hours? Yea, not a thing I, personally, would hang my gas motor hat on.

Red line on industrial diesels are 2100 to 2400. They usually run just under. They have hydrostatic transmissions. They are also always under a load. So it’s not just freewheeling. 10K hours can be reached in just over 3 years in the rotation they work. 12 hr days, 10 day rotation 2 days off. Some companies rotate crews on, the equipment keeps on going. You seemed to be skeptical. Machine that can cost upwards of 1 million dollars the engines better run at least that long. Some have upwards to 1000 Horsepower. Medium range 200-300K. 300-400 Horsepower.

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Grumpy Bear · September 6, 2019

14 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

Red line on industrial diesels are 2100 to 2400. They usually run just under. They have hydrostatic transmissions. They are also always under a load. So it’s not just freewheeling. 10K hours can be reached in just over 3 years in the rotation they work. 12 hr days, 10 day rotation 2 days off. Some companies rotate crews on, the equipment keeps on going. You seemed to be skeptical. Machine that can cost upwards of 1 million dollars the engines better run at least that long. Some have upwards to 1000 Horsepower. Medium range 200-300K. 300-400 Horsepower.

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Nah, not skeptical at all my young friend. No doubt in my mind a diesel will do it maintained as you do. What I doubt is that it translates to a gas motor in any way meaningful. I have a recently retired uncle that worked for White/Volvo for a very long time and has personally put millions of miles per service truck running Isuzu diesels. His oil of choice both personal and professional has always been AMSOIL. I've never asked him about his OCI's but I will.

KARNUT · September 6, 2019

Nah, not skeptical at all my young friend. No doubt in my mind a diesel will do it maintained as you do. What I doubt is that it translates to a gas motor in any way meaningful. I have a recently retired uncle that worked for White/Volvo for a very long time and has personally put millions of miles per service truck running Isuzu diesels. His oil of choice both personal and professional has always been AMSOIL. I've never asked him about his OCI's but I will.

I’ve seen gas engines at pumping stations last many hours. On pumps and welders etc. They run well below redline. Some people don’t realize that diesels make their power at lower RPMs. One of the reasons they outlast gas. Something I believe you’re aware of.

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