E85 Flex Fuel - 2019 AT4

KARNUT · November 2, 2019

Just out of curiosity, how many of you guys do your own internal engine work and how long have you been doing it? I'm not talking about tuning with a laptop or tuner, I'm referring to actually getting in there greasy and dirty up to your elbows and fixing something. That would also have some bearing on what issues one might have seen and how one would feel about them.

Now, nothing wrong with lap tops and tuners, but we didn't have them in my day. More often than not we didn't even have many aftermarket parts in my day. Well hell my first car I actually made the wooden spoke wheels for it. [emoji6]

Just sayin'.

Regards,
jumpinjoe

My first car was a 73 RX3 didn’t touch that one. My second 74 Barracuda. First car I modified, I was seventeen. Just about every car from there until I could afford a toy to play with. Recently my 92 truck, over 100 before, hence the KARNUT label. As far as humidity. Misty, foggy, wet in the morning. Usually when I mow no dust. Burns off by noon. Comes back with 95- 100 degrees by sunset. The reason October to the end of May is my favorite time of the year here.

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jumpinjoe · November 3, 2019

22 hours ago, TJay74 said:

I have ran E85 for years now, zero issues. i work on my own stuff as well, zero issues.

".........................................................................................................................." edited out by jumpinjoe for expediency.

Again hate it if you want, E85 is here to stay as the performance vehicle guys like me love it. My 16 Sierra 6.2 has been on E85 for almost 2 years now, zero issues. I drove from OKC to Dallas last weekend on a full tank of E85 (it was actually E70 due to winter blend from what the Ethanol sensor reported). I ran about 75-80 MPH the entire way and still knocked down almost 18mpg.

Thanks for the reasonable comeback, and I can appreciate everything you've said here. And even though I understand all the claims of 'good' in alcohol, I still don't need it, don't want it, and did I tell y'all "I HATE IT"?

I'm pretty sure my circumstances surrounding the use of alcohol in the very early days of it were simply not conducive to 'liking it'. Living so far out in the country I had to keep some supply on hand for all the small engine equipment I had to maintain to supply all my needs, low turnover of the fuel in the local country gas station/country store, so many small engines to maintain, etc, all helped in me deciding just how I felt about it. And the gov't forcing it on us might have played some part in it as well. I'm not a true anarchist, but probably could be if I wasn't so damned old and beat up. LOL! And my early experiences with it were probably a lot like the first time our mom's made us eat broccoli or go to bed without dessert. We ate it but we hated it and that first time kinda set the stage for how we felt about it after that. Since I left home at 15 and joined the service at 17, I've never eaten another piece of broccoli because I HATE IT, I HATE IT, I HATE IT! LOL!

Now I do recognize the potential high performance aspect and I'm not arguing that, and for racing it's the way to go in many cases, but that's with a dedicated 'racing' application. And I recognize that today's cars/trucks are far more readily capable of using it. But going back in time for me it was nothing short of a 'pain in the arce'. As a matter of fact there was a short time I raced semi-pro go carts for the hell of it and our fuel of choice was Methanol. But the engines were built and tuned specifically for the alcohol fuel.

So, for the time being I'll just say for you whom it works and you like it for whatever reason, go for it! But know that 'I HATE IT, I HATE IT, I HATE IT'. LOL!

Regards,

jumpinjoe

TXGREEK · November 5, 2019

Sent from Above

jumpinjoe · November 5, 2019

3 hours ago, TXGREEK said:

Sent from Above

Well, there ya go!!! Thanx TXGREEK, and to think it was "Sent from Above" too .......................

Regards all,

jumpinjoe

TXGREEK · November 5, 2019

Well, there ya go!!! Thanx TXGREEK, and to think it was "Sent from Above" too ....................... [emoji6]

Regards all,
jumpinjoe

I’ve also recently heard that it’s government going up against the oil companies, attempting to disrupt sales by introducing E85 as cheaper and cleaner but in reality it’s much more expensive to manufacture and far worse for the environment as well as raises the cost of farm goods which affects us all in the grocery stores and we’re (taxpayers) are unknowingly paying for it! Geeeeez, I think I’m going back to using Lucas fuel treatment (it’s biodegradable [emoji6]) in my fuel and doing away with mixing E85 as a fuel line cleaner.

Sent from Above

jumpinjoe · November 5, 2019

6 minutes ago, TXGREEK said:

I’ve also recently heard that it’s government going up against the oil companies, attempting to disrupt sales by introducing E85 as cheaper and cleaner but in reality it’s much more expensive to manufacture and far worse for the environment as well as raises the cost of farm goods which affects us all in the grocery stores and we’re (taxpayers) are unknowingly paying for it! Geeeeez, I think I’m going back to using Lucas fuel treatment (it’s biodegradable ) in my fuel and doing away with mixing E85 as a fuel line cleaner.

Sent from Above

Can't argue with a single word you've said. Did I tell you 'I HATE IT, I HATE IT, I HATE IT'!!!!!!

Regards,

jumpinjoe

Cowpie · November 5, 2019

I can. Produce and grain prices are cheaper today than 20 years ago. If corn price had kept pace with inflation, it would be twice what it is today. Same for Soybeans, the main biodiesel source product.

And the oil companies themselves are the largest financial backers in the biofuels game. Chevron, Royal Dutch Shell, BP, etc.

Why things cost more in food stores is production and transport costs. The FMCSA regulation on electronic driver hour records really snapped a knot in efficiency. It drove transport cost up dramatically. I am in trucking and because of all the regulatory crap that has come down the pike in the last several years, I will only pull a load today if it is almost double the rate of 5 years ago. And who gets billed for that? You do when you go in the store.

A semi truck that was more reliable and cost effective I could buy for $120K 10 years ago. The similar spec’d and less reliable truck today is $160K before 15.5% Federal Excise Tax. You get to pay for that when you go to the store.

And more regulation on businesses that also increased cost. Again, the consumer pays for that.

Only 20% of all corn production goes for human consumption. Of the 80% that is left, 40% goes to ethanol production. And for every bushel of corn that goes into an ethanol plant, 17 lb of high quality, high protein feed supplement comes out the back. Much of which is supplied to the poultry industry. Also other livestock. Also from that bushel of corn comes quality polymer plastics and other stuff. Disposable baby diapers rely on ethanol production. Yes, even the spark plugs in your pickup rely on ethanol production. The ceramic insulator on a spark plug uses components derived from ethanol production to make them.

the CO2 from ethanol production, a lot of that goes to the beverage industry. The corn oil is used as another source product for biodiesel.

test on Friday!

Edited November 5, 2019 by Cowpie

jumpinjoe · November 5, 2019

Cowpie, it appears you have a real window into the ethanol conversation, so I won't be the one to argue with you about it. However I will say this ..... somewhere in the past I read a pretty informative article written by somebody who maybe had just spent a night at a Holiday Inn, and he said that as long as it requires more actual energy in the form of fossil fuels to produce a gallon of ethanol than the amount of energy found in that gallon of ethanol, the scales will never be balanced. Can you verify or contradict that comparison?

Now I don't know exactly how they mass produce the ethanol used to contaminate the gasoline supply in the country, but I do know for a fact it used to take a lot more than a gallon of fuel source to produce a gallon of ethanol the old fashioned way when my grandpa was makin' it. Know what I mean?

Regards,

jumpinjoe

TXGREEK · November 6, 2019

Cowpie, it appears you have a real window into the ethanol conversation, so I won't be the one to argue with you about it. However I will say this ..... somewhere in the past I read a pretty informative article written by somebody who maybe had just spent a night at a Holiday Inn, and he said that as long as it requires more actual energy in the form of fossil fuels to produce a gallon of ethanol than the amount of energy found in that gallon of ethanol, the scales will never be balanced. Can you verify or contradict that comparison?

Now I don't know exactly how they mass produce the ethanol used to contaminate the gasoline supply in the country, but I do know for a fact it used to take a lot more than a gallon of fuel source to produce a gallon of ethanol the old fashioned way when my grandpa was makin' it. Know what I mean? [emoji6]

Regards,
jumpinjoe

The government actually runs the manufacturing of ethanol whereas private corporations like Shell etc are responsible for their own gasoline manufacturing facilities. I remember Obama bringing it up in 2008, wanting better price control of private fuel manufacturing facilities which IMHO, it means that the government has an endless supply of money that will attempt to push gasoline prices down or stay within reason in order to compete with ethanol. Btw, your grandpa may have very well started the very first ethanol manufacturing facility lol

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jumpinjoe · November 7, 2019

Well, I doubt he started the very first ethanol manufacturing facility, but as I remember some of the stories told by the old folks, he sure must have made some of the finest !!! LOL!

Regards,

jumpinjoe

Edited November 7, 2019 by jumpinjoe
typo

Cowpie · November 7, 2019

5 hours ago, TXGREEK said:

The government actually runs the manufacturing of ethanol whereas private corporations like Shell etc are responsible for their own gasoline manufacturing facilities. I remember Obama bringing it up in 2008, wanting better price control of private fuel manufacturing facilities which IMHO, it means that the government has an endless supply of money that will attempt to push gasoline prices down or stay within reason in order to compete with ethanol. Btw, your grandpa may have very well started the very first ethanol manufacturing facility lol

Sent from Above

Tell that to Archer Daniels Midland who runs one of the largest biofuels operations in Blair, NE that they do not own their facility and it is run by the government.

Here is a list of the plants in Iowa and who they are owned by. I didn't see any department of the Federal Government on the list......

https://www.iowacorn.org/corn-uses/ethanol/ethanol-plants

Edited November 7, 2019 by Cowpie

TXGREEK · November 7, 2019

Tell that to Archer Daniels Midland who runs one of the largest biofuels operations in Blair, NE that they do not own their facility and it is run by the government.

No need too, look it up yourself. Watch the video and you’ll understand it better. It’s a government made up fuel, costs more to manufacture. Recycling costs more to recycle than manufacturing which is why this environmental projects receive government subsidies too. The government actually pays gas stations to install and run e85 at the cost of tax payers. I really don’t want to go back and forth about it, just wanted to share the “Truth” about E85

Sent from Above

Cowpie · November 7, 2019

On 11/5/2019 at 5:43 PM, jumpinjoe said:

Cowpie, it appears you have a real window into the ethanol conversation, so I won't be the one to argue with you about it. However I will say this ..... somewhere in the past I read a pretty informative article written by somebody who maybe had just spent a night at a Holiday Inn, and he said that as long as it requires more actual energy in the form of fossil fuels to produce a gallon of ethanol than the amount of energy found in that gallon of ethanol, the scales will never be balanced. Can you verify or contradict that comparison?

Now I don't know exactly how they mass produce the ethanol used to contaminate the gasoline supply in the country, but I do know for a fact it used to take a lot more than a gallon of fuel source to produce a gallon of ethanol the old fashioned way when my grandpa was makin' it. Know what I mean?

Regards,

jumpinjoe

For every BTU of energy input to produce a gallon of ethanol, there is 1.34 BTU output. That is, for every BTU of energy that goes into the entire production process from the farming to the transportation to the actual production of ethanol, there is a 34% increase in BTU output. Here is a complete updated and detailed report including the breakdown of everything from fertilizer, the farming, the transport, the processing, Electricity, etc. You can save some time and just scroll to the conclusion unless you really like digging into the details. It is 16 pages.

https://www1.eere.energy.gov/bioenergy/pdfs/energy_balance_of_corn_ethanol.pdf

And a little snippet that most folks don't realize. Petroleum fuel production uses almost the same amount of water as ethanol production. Ethanol still uses a little more, but that small gap is closing.

https://web.extension.illinois.edu/ethanol/wateruse.cfm

Edited November 7, 2019 by Cowpie

Cowpie · November 7, 2019

14 minutes ago, TXGREEK said:

No need too, look it up yourself. Watch the video and you’ll understand it better. It’s a government made up fuel, costs more to manufacture. Recycling costs more to recycle than manufacturing which is why this environmental projects receive government subsidies too. The government actually pays gas stations to install and run e85 at the cost of tax payers. I really don’t want to go back and forth about it, just wanted to share the “Truth” about E85

Sent from Above

I did......

https://www.iowacorn.org/corn-uses/ethanol/ethanol-plants

You falling for conspiracy theories really is telling.

True, the government does provide some incentives for retailers to install ethanol blender pumps which allow the consumer to pump various blends of ethanol from E10, E15, E20, E30, E50, and E85 from the same pump, but retailers do no make ethanol. And there is no mandate to sell those higher blends of ethanol. They buy it on the commodities market exchange and some retailers install blender pumps to allow the consumer to buy what blend then want. The consumer benefits. The corn producers and ethanol producers do not sell one drop of ethanol at the retail level. Again, get your facts straight.

Any and all subsidies, grants, etc that the ethanol industry got from government in the past was eliminated at the end of 2011. The ethanol producers have to deal with the market price just like any other commodity.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Cowpie

TXGREEK · November 7, 2019

I did......

https://www.iowacorn.org/corn-uses/ethanol/ethanol-plants

You falling for conspiracy theories really is telling.

True, the government does provide some incentives for retailers to install ethanol blender pumps, but retailers do no make ethanol. They buy it on the commodities market exchange. The corn producers and ethanol producers do not sell one drop of ethanol at the retail level. Again, get your facts straight.

Any and all subsidies, grants, etc that the ethanol industry got from government in the past was eliminated at the end of 2011. The ethanol producers have to deal with the market price just like any other commodity.

That was for auto makers too. We’ve got multiple shell stations in the family and believe me, the government working through the oil companies are bringing it up, no thanks. Bio fuels are great but not so much when you see the amount of energy it takes to make them. Ok, I’m outta here...

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