L86 vs LT1 vs LT2

truckguy82 · October 30, 2020

On 10/21/2020 at 12:17 AM, flyingfool said:

factory spent MIlions of dollars in R and D on manifold design, along come the grease monkies who think they can out think the factory guys , lol

Eh, keep in mind, much like variable valve systems, the manufacturer has the entire power band as one of the highest priorities.

Some grease monkey, well an experienced grease monkey, only interested in peak hp at the top of the power band, could likely fab one a sheetmetal one to considerably outperform the oem one. It may not be much good at anything else, but it sure will make hp.

KARNUT · October 30, 2020

Grease monkeys and racers did more to advance the auto industry than anyone. Shelby just to name one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

lucas287 · October 30, 2020

Y'all need to watch some Richard Holdener videos on YT. He has many intake manifold shootout vids and you'd be surprised just how good the stock manifolds are. Dyno is one thing. Real life is another. Track times are all about average HP and TQ, not peaks.

flyingfool · October 30, 2020

1 hour ago, lucas287 said:

Y'all need to watch some Richard Holdener videos on YT. He has many intake manifold shootout vids and you'd be surprised just how good the stock manifolds are. Dyno is one thing. Real life is another. Track times are all about average HP and TQ, not peaks.

definatly, i learned a lot from Richard, guy saved me thousands of dollards just studying his work. everyone is obsesed with HP, the races are won with TOrque and handling tuning not HP.

lucas287 · October 30, 2020

Just now, flyingfool said:

definatly, i learned a lot from Richard, guy saved me thousands of dollards just studying his work. everyone is obsesed with HP, the races are won with TOrque and handling tuning not HP.

Same here. I also have a Motortrend subscription so I've watched every episode of Engine Masters and have learned a lot. Those guys do a good job explaining how the dyno isn't the end-all be-all.

amxguy1970 · October 30, 2020

On 10/17/2020 at 10:52 AM, M1ck3y said:

Could there be an extra 80 horsepower on tap in the upper rev range, or is it purely tuning that's creating this difference in power?

I don't know if I am just mis-reading what you are stating or you fat fingered something but you aren't getting 80 more horsepower out of just a manifold swap and not with a tune as well. Full bolt ons I can see getting you in the ball park (intake, manifold, throttle body, porting, long tubes and tune). It certainly is an asset to any build in most cases.

I have a new intake manifold ready to go with my LS2 as that was a choke point, had it cleaned up and ported and it should be good for around 15hp all in. I am looking to gain around 40-50hp at the wheels with that, my OTR intake, kooks long tubes and high flow cats as well as new plugs and wires and a good tune.

Tyler

M1ck3y · October 30, 2020

35 minutes ago, amxguy1970 said:

I don't know if I am just mis-reading what you are stating or you fat fingered something but you aren't getting 80 more horsepower out of just a manifold swap and not with a tune as well. Full bolt ons I can see getting you in the ball park (intake, manifold, throttle body, porting, long tubes and tune). It certainly is an asset to any build in most cases.

I have a new intake manifold ready to go with my LS2 as that was a choke point, had it cleaned up and ported and it should be good for around 15hp all in. I am looking to gain around 40-50hp at the wheels with that, my OTR intake, kooks long tubes and high flow cats as well as new plugs and wires and a good tune.

Tyler

Factory numbers. L86 = 420 LT2 = 495

Testing on the trucks shows a difference between the manifolds (LT1) is minimal with the l86 being the better choice. What I'm asking is... Did gm limit the power output by the same amount on both engines, and the manifold actually does make a difference. Or did they restrict the power output more on the l86, so it has more to gain with tuning.

Hard to find a correct answer. Testing on the truck says yes, gm restricted the power output more on the l86. But testing on the C7/camaro says differently. Just a tune net's roughly the same power increase you'd see on the truck. Full bolton's with e85, and the C7 actually looks like it makes substantially more power then the truck with the same mods.

Note, I'm not comparing dyno's or numbers. I'm comparing each vehicle to their base dyno and their respected gains.

Just covering all bases here. Drive line's would only be relevant if I was comparing them to each other. Drive train loss is constant and not a cause for improved gains in the corvette.

And to top it off, because it about the LT2... How much do the headers/shorter exhaust, new dry sump, (new camshaft/minimal changes?) affect the C8's power over and above what the manifold would do on its own. The camaro (LT2 Manifold) dyno on the first page shows gains of 20 rwhp with full boltons.

We need someone to buy a C8, C7 and a truck and then go to town with testing. lol

Edited October 30, 2020 by M1ck3y

flyingfool · October 31, 2020

19 hours ago, amxguy1970 said:

I don't know if I am just mis-reading what you are stating or you fat fingered something but you aren't getting 80 more horsepower out of just a manifold swap and not with a tune as well. Full bolt ons I can see getting you in the ball park (intake, manifold, throttle body, porting, long tubes and tune). It certainly is an asset to any build in most cases.

I have a new intake manifold ready to go with my LS2 as that was a choke point, had it cleaned up and ported and it should be good for around 15hp all in. I am looking to gain around 40-50hp at the wheels with that, my OTR intake, kooks long tubes and high flow cats as well as new plugs and wires and a good tune.

Tyler

maybe with e85 too

19 hours ago, M1ck3y said:

Factory numbers. L86 = 420 LT2 = 495

Testing on the trucks shows a difference between the manifolds (LT1) is minimal with the l86 being the better choice. What I'm asking is... Did gm limit the power output by the same amount on both engines, and the manifold actually does make a difference. Or did they restrict the power output more on the l86, so it has more to gain with tuning.

Hard to find a correct answer. Testing on the truck says yes, gm restricted the power output more on the l86. But testing on the C7/camaro says differently. Just a tune net's roughly the same power increase you'd see on the truck. Full bolton's with e85, and the C7 actually looks like it makes substantially more power then the truck with the same mods.

Note, I'm not comparing dyno's or numbers. I'm comparing each vehicle to their base dyno and their respected gains.

Just covering all bases here. Drive line's would only be relevant if I was comparing them to each other. Drive train loss is constant and not a cause for improved gains in the corvette.

And to top it off, because it about the LT2... How much do the headers/shorter exhaust, new dry sump, (new camshaft/minimal changes?) affect the C8's power over and above what the manifold would do on its own. The camaro (LT2 Manifold) dyno on the first page shows gains of 20 rwhp with full boltons.

We need someone to buy a C8, C7 and a truck and then go to town with testing. lol

i think the next variable in the equation in the manifold design, is the cam specs, vs. the Variable valve timing tuning to match the high revving camaro/vette motors Cam duration etc... i guarantee the trucks tune is way different, therefore there are power/torque losses when swapping the shorter runner set up.

lucas287 · October 31, 2020

1 hour ago, flyingfool said:

maybe with e85 too

i think the next variable in the equation in the manifold design, is the cam specs, vs. the Variable valve timing tuning to match the high revving camaro/vette motors Cam duration etc... i guarantee the trucks tune is way different, therefore there are power/torque losses when swapping the shorter runner set up.

Same camshaft in the L86 as the LT1. The LT2 is different though. The vvt settings aren't that much different. 8* of cam ****** at the higher RPMs for the L86 and the LT1 has 11*. The L86 cam is installed at 8* advanced, I'd assume the LT1 is too since it's the same long block.

M1ck3y · November 1, 2020

How about an LS7 intake on our trucks, lol. Similar runner design/twist, similar compression ratio.

https://www.speed-engineering.com/gen-5-lt1-l83-cylinder-head-to-gen-4-ls7-intake-manifold-adapter-plates.html

https://www.performancedesign.com/carbonxr

Scratch that, 5 grand for the intake

Edited November 1, 2020 by M1ck3y

truckguy82 · November 1, 2020

On 10/30/2020 at 5:52 PM, M1ck3y said:

Factory numbers. L86 = 420 LT2 = 495

Testing on the trucks shows a difference between the manifolds (LT1) is minimal with the l86 being the better choice. What I'm asking is... Did gm limit the power output by the same amount on both engines, and the manifold actually does make a difference. Or did they restrict the power output more on the l86, so it has more to gain with tuning.

Hard to find a correct answer. Testing on the truck says yes, gm restricted the power output more on the l86. But testing on the C7/camaro says differently. Just a tune net's roughly the same power increase you'd see on the truck. Full bolton's with e85, and the C7 actually looks like it makes substantially more power then the truck with the same mods.

Note, I'm not comparing dyno's or numbers. I'm comparing each vehicle to their base dyno and their respected gains.

Just covering all bases here. Drive line's would only be relevant if I was comparing them to each other. Drive train loss is constant and not a cause for improved gains in the corvette.

And to top it off, because it about the LT2... How much do the headers/shorter exhaust, new dry sump, (new camshaft/minimal changes?) affect the C8's power over and above what the manifold would do on its own. The camaro (LT2 Manifold) dyno on the first page shows gains of 20 rwhp with full boltons.

We need someone to buy a C8, C7 and a truck and then go to town with testing. lol

Really? I’ve seen comparable gains...

i usually start with 330whp baseline for the truck and 400whp baseline for the vette camaro bout a 30-35% gain in hp doing fbo/e85

the truck I think was factory restricted by the cai more than the other cars

Edited November 1, 2020 by truckguy82

truckguy82 · November 1, 2020

21 hours ago, lucas287 said:

Same camshaft in the L86 as the LT1. The LT2 is different though. The vvt settings aren't that much different. 8* of cam ****** at the higher RPMs for the L86 and the LT1 has 11*. The L86 cam is installed at 8* advanced, I'd assume the LT1 is too since it's the same long block.

I think you had a typo there in lt1, someone will find that info valuable in the next couple decades

truckguy82 · November 1, 2020

On 10/30/2020 at 2:42 PM, KARNUT said:

Grease monkeys and racers did more to advance the auto industry than anyone. Shelby just to name one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well hopefully you don’t mean shelby of ssc lol.

SSC tuatara hit 331mph recently for a world record run and the internet found out it was BS

flyingfool · November 1, 2020

10 minutes ago, truckguy82 said:

Well hopefully you don’t mean shelby of ssc lol.

SSC tuatara hit 331mph recently for a world record run and the internet found out it was BS

i consider Shelby more Engineer/business man than a grease monkey

Edited November 1, 2020 by flyingfool

M1ck3y · November 1, 2020

1 hour ago, truckguy82 said:

Really? I’ve seen comparable gains...

i usually start with 330whp baseline for the truck and 400whp baseline for the vette camaro bout a 30-35% gain in hp doing fbo/e85

the truck I think was factory restricted by the cai more than the other cars

Yeah, your right. That's what I get for trying to go off memory... 30-35% though? (shouldn't it be 25% or less). I'm thinking 35% is with a mild cam.

I had to like your post. No way was I leaving it at that number, lol.

Edited November 1, 2020 by M1ck3y