Leveling Kit - Upper Strut Spacers Vs. Lower Block Spacers

[BlaineBug]

It seems to me that upper strut spacers would be the way to go and sound a lot stronger than implementing a block spacer beneath the strut in-between the lower control arm and strut mounting point.  The combination of the block and longer bolts required introduces additional leverage which, in my opinion, isn't a good thing for a steer axle!  Another thing I never see mentioned in any installation instructions is the loosening of all 8 control arm bolts, and then torquing them down at ride height.  If you aren't "resetting" the control arm bushings after installing any lift kit, they will be under constant stress and flex/twist at normal ride height which isn't a good thing.  Bushings are designed to be in their neutral state at ride height and only flex one way or the other when the suspension compresses or retracts while driving down the road.

Edited September 6, 2022 by BlaineBug

[mikeyk101]

I just went through removing my Rough Country 2" level spacer blocks to change out my struts. The RC level kit goes on bottom. It was a serious challenge. I installed the level kit about 3 years ago. The hardware left a lot to be desired as far as durability. Because of the added thickness, obviously the stock lower bolts would not work and the new bolts that came with the level had to be used. On the right side, they had rusted in to the lower control arm pretty good.  But using a lot of penetrating oil, a socket wrench with a 3' extension as a persuader, I was finally able to get them to bust loose a bit and hammered them out. I didn't get so lucky on left side as when I used my persuader set up, both of them snapped about midway on the bolts. I ended up having to basically drill them and then hammer the snot out of them.

 

The other thing to mention as far as the RC level, the bolts, according to instructions, get mounted from top to bottom unlike the stock strut lower bolts that go up. In order to install, it calls for unbolting the sway bar as well as unbolting the upper ball joint and the steering arm so the knuckle can be moved out of the way. A bit of a project. The biggest reason this has to be done is that otherwise one of the new mounting bolts if going up will cause interference with the CV drive shaft as well as not being able to install that bolt.  And once you do this, if you ever have to change out the struts, you will have to go through this all over again.

 

After my experience, IMHO, if you never plan on changing the struts out, by all means, go with lower spacer. But the upper option would probably be easier later on as it's a bit more protected from the elements.

[14burrito]

IMO both result in poor suspension geometry. I recommend Bilstein 5100s.

[BlaineBug]

4 hours ago, mikeyk101 said:

I just went through removing my Rough Country 2" level spacer blocks to change out my struts. The RC level kit goes on bottom. It was a serious challenge. I installed the level kit about 3 years ago. The hardware left a lot to be desired as far as durability. Because of the added thickness, obviously the stock lower bolts would not work and the new bolts that came with the level had to be used. On the right side, they had rusted in to the lower control arm pretty good.  But using a lot of penetrating oil, a socket wrench with a 3' extension as a persuader, I was finally able to get them to bust loose a bit and hammered them out. I didn't get so lucky on left side as when I used my persuader set up, both of them snapped about midway on the bolts. I ended up having to basically drill them and then hammer the snot out of them.

 

The other thing to mention as far as the RC level, the bolts, according to instructions, get mounted from top to bottom unlike the stock strut lower bolts that go up. In order to install, it calls for unbolting the sway bar as well as unbolting the upper ball joint and the steering arm so the knuckle can be moved out of the way. A bit of a project. The biggest reason this has to be done is that otherwise one of the new mounting bolts if going up will cause interference with the CV drive shaft as well as not being able to install that bolt.  And once you do this, if you ever have to change out the struts, you will have to go through this all over again.

 

After my experience, IMHO, if you never plan on changing the struts out, by all means, go with lower spacer. But the upper option would probably be easier later on as it's a bit more protected from the elements.

 

I was reading the instructions for the Rough Country kit a few days ago and was thinking that all of the steps they had seemed unnecessary.  They want you to unbolt the anti-sway bar, steering, and upper ball joint, which seemed excessive to me.  I replaced my front hubs last November and didn't unbolt anything else.  Also it seems to me that the new bolts for the level kit blocks could be inserted from beneath so as long as the stud that protruded beyond the nut on the top wasn't too long to contact the CV shaft.  And if they were too long, they could be trimmed or different length Grade 8 bolts could be acquired.

[BlaineBug]

19 minutes ago, 14burrito said:

IMO both result in poor suspension geometry. I recommend Bilstein 5100s.

I am aware of what you speak of.  Ideally the upper and lower control arms should be perfectly level at normal ride height for the best quality handling and comfort.  Which is why they typically sell aftermarket modified control arms, knuckles, or even control arm drop brackets to remedy this problem with more extreme lifts.

 

My first car was a 1995 Jeep Cherokee which I bought in fall 2005.  I went on to install a 3" lift, and then bumped that up to about 5", and then finally settled at 8".  Looking back I should have stuck with the 3" lift OR at maximum the 5" lift and stopped there.  The vehicle became less and less "daily drivable" the taller it got especially at 8" and or the fact that I wasn't going crazy expensive with long arm kits or what not.

 

I'm not particularly sold on the idea of a level kit with my 2019 Yukon.  I like the prospect of a teeny-tiny lift in regards to leveling the front with the rear but I don't want to introduce some weak point by spacing the strut further away from the lower control arms at the same time.

 

Anyway this morning I took some measurements using my running boards/side steps as a reference point.

 

Front Left:  10-3/4"
Front Right:  11-1/8"

Rear Left:  12"

Rear Right:  12-1/2"

 

Of course I'm not measuring at the bumpers or the fenders (although I thought that measurement might not be correct because aren't the fenders not aligned front to rear) that it would need about 1" to level it.

 

Secondly, I can perhaps understand the 1/2" different in the rear since the fuel tank sits on the left side rear, and I measured with about 1/2 tank so the left side should be sitting a little bit lower since there's more weight on that side with a half tank of fuel in there.  But what's up with the difference in front measurements?

Edited September 6, 2022 by BlaineBug

[14burrito]

15 minutes ago, BlaineBug said:

I am aware of what you speak of.  Ideally the upper and lower control arms should be perfectly level at normal ride height for the best quality handling and comfort.  Which is why they typically sell aftermarket modified control arms, knuckles, or even control arm drop brackets to remedy this problem with more extreme lifts.

 

My first car was a 1995 Jeep Cherokee which I bought in fall 2005.  I went on to install a 3" lift, and then bumped that up to about 5", and then finally settled at 8".  Looking back I should have stuck with the 3" lift OR at maximum the 5" lift and stopped there.  The vehicle became less and less "daily drivable" the taller it got especially at 8" and or the fact that I wasn't going crazy expensive with long arm kits or what not.

 

I'm not particularly sold on the idea of a level kit with my 2019 Yukon.  I like the prospect of a teeny-tiny lift in regards to leveling the front with the rear but I don't want to introduce some weak point by spacing the strut further away from the lower control arms at the same time.

 

Anyway this morning I took some measurements using my running boards/side steps as a reference point.

 

Front Left:  10-3/4"
Front Right:  11-1/8"

Rear Left:  12"

Rear Right:  12-1/2"

 

Of course I'm not measuring at the bumpers or the fenders (although I thought that measurement might not be correct because aren't the fenders not aligned front to rear) that it would need about 1" to level it.

 

Secondly, I can perhaps understand the 1/2" different in the rear since the fuel tank sits on the left side rear, and I measured with about 1/2 tank so the left side should be sitting a little bit lower since there's more weight on that side with a half tank of fuel in there.  But what's up with the difference in front measurements?

Not what I was talking about. Aftermarket UCAs are to help with alignment. 

 

What I'm talking about is poor shock geometry with a spacer. The spacer will now overextend the suspension as well and the longer coil assembly has now turned into the bumpstop.

[BlaineBug]

1 minute ago, 14burrito said:

Not what I was talking about. Aftermarket UCAs are to help with alignment. 

 

What I'm talking about is poor shock geometry with a spacer. The spacer will now overextend the suspension as well and the longer coil assembly has now turned into the bumpstop.

I understand that as well.  Although how does the Bilstein 5100 somehow "lift" the truck?  To my knowledge it is simply a shock absorber, and I've been hearing about them for about 15 years now since I owned my Jeep.

[14burrito]

They have different settings built into the shock body and you place the circlip at the height you want, preloads the coil to provide lift. Same concept as a coilover assembly with a threaded body, but the adjustment requires removing the top hat.

[BlaineBug]

9 minutes ago, 14burrito said:

They have different settings built into the shock body and you place the circlip at the height you want, preloads the coil to provide lift. Same concept as a coilover assembly with a threaded body, but the adjustment requires removing the top hat.

I see.  It must not be shown with the generic photos I am seeing for the Bilstein 5100 which fits a bunch of vehicles that don't have coil overs as well.  I am guessing that 5100 refers to a "series" rather than a specific model number, as the 5100 series shocks have many different part numbers for specific applications.

 

Although this begs the question, the shock is still the same length, and the vehicle's suspension with bump stops is made for STOCK HEIGHT.  Without adding longer bump stops, you are still using the strut assembly as the new bump stop if the ride height is increased over stock specifications.  And also control arm angles will not be stock neither.

Edited September 6, 2022 by BlaineBug

[14burrito]

12 minutes ago, BlaineBug said:

I see.  It must not be shown with the generic photos I am seeing for the Bilstein 5100 which fits a bunch of vehicles that don't have coil overs as well.  I am guessing that 5100 refers to a "series" rather than a specific model number, as the 5100 series shocks have many different part numbers for specific applications.

 

Although this begs the question, the shock is still the same length, and the vehicle's suspension with bump stops is made for STOCK HEIGHT.  Without adding longer bump stops, you are still using the strut assembly as the new bump stop if the ride height is increased over stock specifications.  And also control arm angles will not be stock neither.

With the over under you are asking about originally, those spacers ADD to the overall length of the stock coilover assembly as they are an auxiliary addition to. So if your doing a 3" lift, the spacer will be somewhere between 1-1.5" thick. So if the factory coilover assembly is 22", the new length will be 23-23.5" OAL.

 

The 5100s preload the coil. They will be the same or close to the factory assembly length.

[BlaineBug]

12 minutes ago, 14burrito said:

With the over under you are asking about originally, those spacers ADD to the overall length of the stock coilover assembly as they are an auxiliary addition to. So if your doing a 3" lift, the spacer will be somewhere between 1-1.5" thick. So if the factory coilover assembly is 22", the new length will be 23-23.5" OAL.

 

The 5100s preload the coil. They will be the same or close to the factory assembly length.

I'm not visualizing or perceiving how that works exactly (without seeing it) while also retaining the same overall length as stock.

There's also no way I would do a 3" lift on this truck.  Like I said I'm not even sure I'm sold on a leveling kit considering that there's at most a 1" difference between front and rear of my running boards/side steps.  I think the raked appearance is more dramatic than it actually is in practice.

 

From what I researched it seems that, if one installs a lift block between the coil over and lower control arm, that whatever the thickness of the block is, it results in about 200% that value in lift.  So a 1" block would achieve a 2" lift in the front.  I'm also not sure how it works out that way exactly.  My logical brain would believe that a 1" block would achieve a 1" lift.

Edited September 6, 2022 by BlaineBug

[HoosierZ]

The leveling spacer thickness to lift ratio is around 2:1  because the strut attaches to the lower control arm roughly half way between the lower ball joint and the bushing where the arm pivots. I had 1” thick spacers that raised my truck 1-3/4”. When I changed the shocks, I went with the Eibach Pro Lift setup that comes with their springs.  I ditched the spacers that were in there before. The front shocks have about 1” more travel than the factory Ranchos had, and they’re about 1” longer overall. The Eibachs are adjustable lift shocks like the Bilstein 5100s. The Eibach springs are slightly stiffer and longer so at the lowest ride height setting on the struts, they gave me 2-1/2” of lift over stock. The rear factory blocks were replaced with 2” blocks to keep about 1-1/2” of rake.

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by HoosierZ

[ftwhite]

When you add spacers, you are not extending the length of the strut/coilover. You simply move the control arms further down in their travel arch. Since the top mounting is fixed on the body, and the bottom is on the lower control arm. Hence the lift. The length of the shock and the spring is the same in this case. What changes is how much sooner the upper control arm hits the droop stop (down stop built into the frame) and how much longer it takes (or how much more room the wheel has in the wheel well) when it is fully compressed.
Most of the time, when you add a lift/level/spacer/coilover, you also get an alignment. The control arm bolts (only 4 on the body side) get adjusted, so that generally addresses the bushing bind you mentioned.   

[14burrito]

6 hours ago, ftwhite said:

When you add spacers, you are not extending the length of the strut/coilover. You simply move the control arms further down in their travel arch. Since the top mounting is fixed on the body, and the bottom is on the lower control arm. Hence the lift. The length of the shock and the spring is the same in this case. What changes is how much sooner the upper control arm hits the droop stop (down stop built into the frame) and how much longer it takes (or how much more room the wheel has in the wheel well) when it is fully compressed.
Most of the time, when you add a lift/level/spacer/coilover, you also get an alignment. The control arm bolts (only 4 on the body side) get adjusted, so that generally addresses the bushing bind you mentioned.   

When using spacers - How do you move something further down without extending the length of something fixed at the other end?

Edited September 7, 2022 by 14burrito

[BlaineBug]

6 hours ago, ftwhite said:

The control arm bolts (only 4 on the body side) get adjusted, so that generally addresses the bushing bind you mentioned.

 

That is true although I thought the upper bushings were the ones that had the alignment for caster/camber and then the toe would be adjusted via tie rod ends.  I don't believe they ever loosen/tighten the bottom control arm bushings at all.  I have never seen an adjustable lower control arm bushing for any make or manufacturer.

Edited September 7, 2022 by BlaineBug