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Black02Silverado

By Black02Silverado
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Z45 Senior Enthusiast

Z45

Posted
Posted (edited)

That's a list of oils meeting the minimum specifications, why would the best want to be on that list?  They value their reputation more than making some $$.  

Edited by Z45
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txab
txab

Sure have. My statements are opinions of your statements, not personal attacks on you.   You use the term "worshipper" against people. Is that an opinion or an attack? One could say you seem

newdude
newdude

One more line of thought.   There's enough researched data on oils with VOAs and UOAs of all sorts of brands, gas and diesel oils, to get a good feel of what's on the market and if its good

newdude
newdude

What Z45 said.  Amsoil tests to and exceeds Dexos but does not pay for the licensing.     I run Amsoil in my 2.7 Turbo, doesn't bother me one bit that its not a "licensed" oil.   

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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, Atlas said:

 

Yes, we as consumers do have a choice. I choose peace of mind in this regard.

 

Licensed doctors have been through schooling which certify they meet minimum requirements in order to practice medicine. It may not be an indicator of actual or future performance, but they did meet the requirements at the time they were licensed.

 

There are requirements to keep that license. And, it's also telling if they lose that license. Translating this to Amsoil, how do we know it still meets/exceeds Dexos spec, or API spec for that matter? We have to rely on independent testing or for Amsoil to publish any changes to the oil they make which may differ from the engine's requirements. Then it's on the consumer to keep up and monitor those changes.

 

How many of you do that -- or do you rely on word of mouth, and your beliefs?

 

I realize I'm not going to convert any of the worshippers here. Again, I don't think it's bad oil, but I am disappointed that Ams has failed to license again in this regard. These engines have different needs than a typical gas motor and the emissions equipment is expensive...

How many oil analysis samples do you do on your own equipment? 
 

You understand that “licensed” formulations meet minimum specs?  
 

Most prefer to stay on “ white side of grey” but as consumers you NOT getting your $$ worth of performance vs cost. 

Many of us here worked in the petroleum lubes business for decades before retiring. We did and do science not marketing. 
 

If it was worth the Exxon Mobil moniker we would tell you so. 
 

Sleep well 😴 but you like most consumers are overpaying for underweight performance. 


 

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txab Senior Enthusiast

txab

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Atlas said:

 

That's pretty bold of you as a moderator to call me a flat-earther and call what I'm doing "whining". Have you read the forum rules?

Sure have. My statements are opinions of your statements, not personal attacks on you.

 

You use the term "worshipper" against people. Is that an opinion or an attack? One could say you seem to be using it in a derogatory way. 

 

Do you consider yourself a "Dexos D" worshipper?

 

You were in this same argument 4 years ago and it's not turning out any differently. Same arguments.  Leave it be. You will never be convinced, because you really don't want to be convinced. You just want things your way. You only want that little license sticker from Uncle GM, then you can sleep at night. That's fine. Do what you want and every one else can do the same. 

 

Btw, since you reported me, I gave myself 1 warning point and ordered myself to be flogged 50 times with a wet noodle. :)

Edited by txab
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newdude Senior Enthusiast

newdude

Posted
Posted

One more line of thought.

 

There's enough researched data on oils with VOAs and UOAs of all sorts of brands, gas and diesel oils, to get a good feel of what's on the market and if its good or not.  Amsoil, Schaeffers, other "boutique" oils that meet the spec but don't bow to the licensing, there's enough data out there on VOA (virgin oil analysis) to see what's in them and what makes them tick. 

 

You'd also be able to find out that the LM2 and LZ0 tend to run strong iron in the wear metal counts.  Now.  Is that from it being a 0w20?  Or is that from the OEM oil meeting the spec but not surpassing the spec to control those wear metals?  Wouldn't you want an oil that surpasses the spec and reduce wear rate over time?    

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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, newdude said:

One more line of thought.

 

There's enough researched data on oils with VOAs and UOAs of all sorts of brands, gas and diesel oils, to get a good feel of what's on the market and if its good or not.  Amsoil, Schaeffers, other "boutique" oils that meet the spec but don't bow to the licensing, there's enough data out there on VOA (virgin oil analysis) to see what's in them and what makes them tick. 

 

You'd also be able to find out that the LM2 and LZ0 tend to run strong iron in the wear metal counts.  Now.  Is that from it being a 0w20?  Or is that from the OEM oil meeting the spec but not surpassing the spec to control those wear metals?  Wouldn't you want an oil that surpasses the spec and reduce wear rate over time?    

Not only that but the Amsoil 0w-20 D rated oil shows lower regens on the 3.0 diesel. 
 

That and oil analysis results with lower wear convinced this retired analyst XOM was cheaping out on ther 0w20. 

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Atlas Senior Enthusiast

Atlas

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, newdude said:

One more line of thought.

 

There's enough researched data on oils with VOAs and UOAs of all sorts of brands, gas and diesel oils, to get a good feel of what's on the market and if its good or not.  Amsoil, Schaeffers, other "boutique" oils that meet the spec but don't bow to the licensing, there's enough data out there on VOA (virgin oil analysis) to see what's in them and what makes them tick. 

 

You'd also be able to find out that the LM2 and LZ0 tend to run strong iron in the wear metal counts.  Now.  Is that from it being a 0w20?  Or is that from the OEM oil meeting the spec but not surpassing the spec to control those wear metals?  Wouldn't you want an oil that surpasses the spec and reduce wear rate over time?    

 

Are you saying other oils don't surpass the spec, and only Amsoil does?

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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Atlas said:

 

Are you saying other oils don't surpass the spec, and only Amsoil does?

No ,can’t your read? Many other formulations exceed the requirements than EXXON MOBIL made under contract Dexos D 

Atlas Senior Enthusiast

Atlas

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, customboss said:

No one’s selling Amsoil here but @Black02Silverado and he’s been the most quiet. 

 

I think you all do the job for him, maybe he's sitting on a beach somewhere enjoying life?

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, newdude said:

One more line of thought.

 

There's enough researched data on oils with VOAs and UOAs of all sorts of brands, gas and diesel oils, to get a good feel of what's on the market and if its good or not.  Amsoil, Schaeffers, other "boutique" oils that meet the spec but don't bow to the licensing, there's enough data out there on VOA (virgin oil analysis) to see what's in them and what makes them tick. 

 

You'd also be able to find out that the LM2 and LZ0 tend to run strong iron in the wear metal counts.  Now.  Is that from it being a 0w20?  Or is that from the OEM oil meeting the spec but not surpassing the spec to control those wear metals?  Wouldn't you want an oil that surpasses the spec and reduce wear rate over time?    

 

Perhaps someone I have on ignore has mentioned this but worth stating twice if its been covered. 

 

A frequent reason an oil that 'exceeds' spec does not have a license is that little problem of base oil "Read Across". It's also the reason some of the best oils don't have an API donut. With out Read Across the oil must undergo some very expensive testing. Much more so than the cost of the license. So you get a superior oil with a more robust base oil package and an API approved add package, or better, denied being included in the DEXOS club and the API club. 

 

Sadly this non license area would also include those oil using worse or test non compliant base packages and unapproved add packages or worse. That is where discernment is handy. Pick a rose and not a skunk.

 

I think AMSOIL, Red Line HP, Torco, and Schieffer's have cleared that "Discernment" bar pretty easy. 

 

:rant:

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newdude Senior Enthusiast

newdude

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Atlas said:

 

Are you saying other oils don't surpass the spec, and only Amsoil does?

 

 

Not at all. 

 

I'm saying that if you spend some time and do some reading, you'd find out that ACDelco Dexos D is a fine oil (which is supplied and blended by Exxon Mobil who's been with GM for decades now) but that others in its category exceed where ACDelco Dexos D is (which is essentially ground zero oil for the Dexos D spec).  And even it (ACDelco Dexos D) might exceed the Dexos D spec requirements, but not as surpassing as others on the market.

 

VOAs, UOAs, forum after forum on Dexos D oils being run in the LM2 and LZ0 that can be analyzed to form some sort of a basis on an oil to run.  Examine the data, determine from VOA and maybe some early mileage UOAs (under 20,000mi to ensure the data points are showing initial break in and the chances of high wear metals and silicon from RTV wash) and then price them out to see what fits your budget/price point on an oil change for it. 

 

The GM stuff is likely the most pocket friendly, and it is the "spec" oil, but for an extra dollar or two per quart, its possible there is a better contender for the long haul. 

 

This applies to ANY gas or diesel engine in a vehicle.  In the gas engine land there is plenty of strong contenders that don't break the bank either or are not a boutique oil.  Pennzoil Platinum, a couple Castrol and Quaker State products, some Mobil 1 that aren't the basic Mobil 1 for example.  On the lower end and shorter drain intervals its things like Costco's Kirkland full synthetics, Super Tech, Napa that offer some high quality product on a budget friendly side of things.  And obviously up the chain to boutiques, its Amsoil, Schaeffers, HPL to name a couple.  

 

On the CK4 oil side in larger diesels, Shell Rotella, Mobil Delvac, Chevron Delo....I could go on and on and on.  

 

If there are any that stand out at likely being a better oil that are "licensed" (for anyone that thinks its the end all be all to be licensed to Dexos) its probably gonna end up being Castrol EDGE 0W-20 Turbo Diesel, Valvoline Full Synthetic dexosD, Valvoline SynPower MST FE C6 and MOBIL 1 ESP X2.  Although I don't think I've seen the Castrol or Valvoline options on the shelves yet.  The Valvoline seems most intriguing given their history with Cummins. 

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KARNUT Senior Enthusiast

KARNUT

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, customboss said:

Someone check on Stan and make sure he’s alive! @KARNUT where are you?

Huh? What do you mean? Oh because there’s talk about Amsoil? Honestly I’ve been retired about 11 years things change. I still think Amsoil is probably the best. I don’t use it too much anymore because I don’t go extended anymore because I travel much less than I used to. Especially extended HWY driving. And I don’t do my own oil changes anymore. I go to the dealership every other oil change because I can watch them do a check list, like I used to. And a Valvoline quick lube the other. With driving about 12K miles a year split between two vehicles and the wife’s Genesis on Sunday to fill the tank after church. I’m Mr average now. So at 5K oil changes and about 20K transmission fluid changes. Among the other maintenance items. I could probably get by with the cheapest stuff on the market. My oil changes at the dealership are about 100$ the quick lube a little less. I don’t give it much thought. Most of my vehicles are north of 160K or close to it. And no oil usage. With my extreme dislike for any vehicle after 2016. Mainly because they’re over priced and complicated. I’ll probably just buy really good deals on old stuff. I’m pretty satisfied with my track record. I’m completely bored with oil talk. Everyone has an opinion. I do what works for me. Thanks for the concern. All is well.

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