Dyno testing Amsoil against other oils.

[KARNUT]

You mean like race cars? That’s still going on. And normal driving? That’s still going on. Vehicles failing from oil related failures. That should be easy enough to document. My families experience when we had a salvage yard for awhile. Most cars we bought drove in. Couldn’t pass emissions. Cars weren’t worth the repair. 

[Black02Silverado]

14 minutes ago, Atlas said:

 

A nice 100 mile loop would be too kind. I'd suggest something that mimics a typical daily duty where most people tend to live (congested areas) including a few short cycles / trips under 3 miles, lots of stop/go in traffic, and idle.

 

Automatic start/stop: ON

 

And use a modern DI, small-displacement turbo with at least an 8-speed trans. Maybe a 2.0L hurricane (Stellantis), Ford 2.0 or 2.3, VW 2.0, etc.

 

I think that would be a true oil torture test.

All those conditions would be included in that loop.

[Grumpy Bear]

13 minutes ago, Black02Silverado said:

Interesting video.  You will never change the minds of those that say thicker is better.  Even with the hundreds of thousands of vehicles out on the road with over 300k miles on them that have been using nothing but 0w-20 or 5w-20. 

 

 Do I say that? Thicker is better?  Pretty sure what I say is "Use Enough".  And I point out OFTEN enough isn't what the manufacture is recommending. I've shared repeatedly that my older Honda's all used 5W20 with great results. 

 

I preach testing to find that number as well as the OCI length best suited and I use your services to explore those limits. 

 

Now, if that statement quoted is more generic then yes, there are plenty with that belief. I just don't want to be rolled up in the fold. 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

7 hours ago, Chuck FB said:

In a way its amusing, not to the person that runs the thin oil and possibly has their engine fail on them after the warranty is past but the very idea that they can lie and push their weight around telling the customer you MUST run 0W-20 in your engine while the vehicle sitting next to it with the same engine only cranked up in power has the manufacturer/dealer telling the customer you MUST run 0W-40 in this truck, make sense of that !. 

 

They are 'card counting'. Stacking the deck. Playing odds. Ask yourself, "What is the difference between the drivers that would buy the differences in those vehicles"?  

[Grumpy Bear]

7 hours ago, Chuck FB said:

 

That would have been a very interesting UOA comparison to have re run the RL once again at the end of the test after a RL flush, then an actual run. Then compare those two results 1st and last although I do have to wonder if that result comparison would throw too much doubt into all the results, but we will never know. 

 

What are your thoughts on the viscosity vs heat differential that the tests showed, certainly there is a difference in viscosity between the various oils but what the viscosity chart would not show is the vis at the actual temperature that the oils were being run at which was a lot hotter than that 100C standard and the thinner oils allowing for more power output but at what long term detriment as some of them would have continued to sheer down further I am guessing while others would have been able to maintain viscosity.

 

Unfortunately they could run tests like this until they are blue in the face and I assume never fully duplicate the same outcome as a real world test of time with cold starts and varying distance drives including plenty of short runs would test an oil to in being able to prevent corrosion, sludge, wear etc with combustion contamination and worse fuel dilution etc, over quite a period of time on the calendar.  

 

Ah now you're going to make me watch the entire video? Hang on....

[customboss]

7 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Ah now you're going to make me watch the entire video? Hang on....

Yeah just like we read your whole comments!

[customboss]

9 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I watched about 5 minutes of the video. Garbage in, garbage out. Whatever oil was first in that motor was going to show the highest wear rate. Whatever order came after would fall in whatever order they were run. Lake got to cute on this one. This test would not pass a peer review and as done, not repeatable. 

 

He could have run the same oil seven times and got near the same results. IMO. YMMV. 

 

 

Nailed it. ^^^^^^

You guys tied to YOUR OPINION are butthurt by actual testing. Interesting. 

[customboss]

13 hours ago, Black02Silverado said:

I found it interesting on the graph showing the first flush and how the oil still held a little bit of the previous oil, Redline, and then the continued flush changed the rest.  Goes to show how much is held inside the engine from oil change to oil change.

 

Also found it interesting on the turbo deposit test. The oils that did well on wear did not so well on it. Which makes sense since like he stated those oils were designed for HP and performance and short oil drain intervals.  Since turbo's seem to be very popular now to produce the numbers with smaller displacement. I would think wanting protection in that area would be one of the top things to consider.  The oil baking inside the turbo bearing area after shutdown is an area to protect from deposits, especially some vehicles having twin turbos.  Plus the average person doesn't bother letting their engine idle a little before shutting down to help cool things down, especially those that run it hard like in the Ford F150's with Ecoboost doing daily work hauling and pulling loads.

 

HP is a newcomer I think and has a great product. They are working with a group on formulating an oil for the Stelantis Ecodiesel, trying to get the aluminum wear down that it seems to have issues with. It will be interesting to see how well they evolve on accomplishing this. Considering the Ecodiesel has a very small footprint in todays automotive market. 

 

The test engine he used is a good test  bed if you ask me.  Now what most don't realize is the total time, ie days it took to complete this test not to mention the cost for use of the dyno and all the oil used as well as testing each oil.  

 

Didn't surprise me on AMSOIL's results. To me it's basically the best covering all area's, Not one oil can be top dog on all area's, to many factors come into play, just like stated Driven was made to keep the engines cool, to accomplish this other area's have to suffer.

A REAL PRO TECHNICIAN MECHANIC speaks. Listen to @Black02Silverado

[Black02Silverado]

32 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

 Do I say that? Thicker is better?  Pretty sure what I say is "Use Enough".  And I point out OFTEN enough isn't what the manufacture is recommending. I've shared repeatedly that my older Honda's all used 5W20 with great results. 

 

I preach testing to find that number as well as the OCI length best suited and I use your services to explore those limits. 

 

Now, if that statement quoted is more generic then yes, there are plenty with that belief. I just don't want to be rolled up in the fold. 

 

 

Yes it was generic. I wasn't pointing fingers.

[diyer2]

My story on thicker oil. We had a class A motorhome, 1986 with a big block Chevy engine. Engine was between the front seats like van, stuck in a hole. Oil cap 10W30. Living in Colorado and towing a boat  I thought oil was to light. Pulling the gauntlet or known as I-70 through the Eisenhower tunnel with a 4 speed trans it would run at 4-5k for a while, don;t remember how long it took to climb this. Same story on other Colorado mountain passes. It was using oil, again don't remember how much to long ago. Enough that I switched to Valvoline 20W50 racing oil and a 2 quart spin oil filter to get another quart of oil capacity. I always let it warm up after starting it for 5- 10 mins depending on temperature. Oil use stopped. 

[Grumpy Bear]

9 hours ago, Chuck FB said:

What are your thoughts on the viscosity vs heat differential that the tests showed, certainly there is a difference in viscosity between the various oils but what the viscosity chart would not show is the vis at the actual temperature that the oils were being run at which was a lot hotter than that 100C standard and the thinner oils allowing for more power output but at what long term detriment as some of them would have continued to sheer down further I am guessing while others would have been able to maintain viscosity.

 

Okay Chuck I gave that short video a full hour making some notes as I went. 

 

First three oils run in order also are first three in order of decline in oil temperature and Fe/Al. Yes that much difference in oil temp will have a profound effect on viscosity and and the wear metals followed predictably.  After the first three it gets random. Cam pulled showed pitting and yet they claimed SP oils will protect the flat tappet system. How so?  

 

He made a big deal out of switching base oil types and the flush method to separate the POE/POA, POA/Ester's from the others but slid the GTL in the middle of the Ester group and scattered the remaining ester bearing oil liberally about the remaining test oils. 

 

Want to see the disconnect closer? Compare wear metals to AW levels, zero.

 

Compare oil temps to base oil types. That is explain how a Group III with a 15% deficit in thermal conductivity and thermal capacitance ran cooler by a wide margin to the primary POA formulations. So physics is junk? 

 

Lee says butthurt because I don't like the result. Second time I'll say I don't like the test because it is flawed silly. I say garbage in....garbage out. Junk, just like I said.  Lee, no need to belittle the messenger when you don't get the response you wish for. 

[Chuck FB]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Ah now you're going to make me watch the entire video? Hang on....

 

Would I do that 

 

I will say that I was surprised the Mobil did as well as it did although I doubt the word impressive could be used to describe its sheer stability relative to some of those oils used in this test and was expecting a result like that based on other UOA results I have seen online. Am I right that there are only two or maybe three oils in this test that are actually Dexos licensed ( rather than being said to meet a Dexos spec or those oils that certainly are not formulated to meet any such spec ) so that would play into how the Mobil would fair in such a test on a relative basis. I will say I was shocked at the near matching sheer of the SS vs the Mobil and how the PUP for what it is as an off the shelf oil had such an impressive result on that test, however its not a Dexos oil. 

 

But again, a test like this doesn't tell the whole story out in the real world of the every day vehicle user as that requires long term testing among different engine platforms to evaluate. Taxi cab fleets is one method but even that is not the same as the use the average person gives their vehicle since they are running all day for many hours and oil changed far more often calendar wise. 

[Chuck FB]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Okay Chuck I gave that short video a full hour making some notes as I went. 

 

First three oils run in order also are first three in order of decline in oil temperature and Fe/Al. Yes that much difference in oil temp will have a profound effect on viscosity and and the wear metals followed predictably.  After the first three it gets random. Cam pulled showed pitting and yet they claimed SP oils will protect the flat tappet system. How so?  

 

He made a big deal out of switching base oil types and the flush method to separate the POE/POA, POA/Ester's from the others but slid the GTL in the middle of the Ester group and scattered the remaining ester bearing oil liberally about the remaining test oils. 

 

Want to see the disconnect closer? Compare wear metals to AW levels, zero.

 

Compare oil temps to base oil types. That is explain how a Group III with a 15% deficit in thermal conductivity and thermal capacitance ran cooler by a wide margin to the primary POA formulations. So physics is junk? 

 

Lee says butthurt because I don't like the result. Second time I'll say I don't like the test because it is flawed silly. I say garbage in....garbage out. Junk, just like I said.  Lee, no need to belittle the messenger when you don't get the response you wish for. 

 

I will admit I feel somewhat bad for dragging you through that video, I hope your ears don't hurt as bad as mine for all that inserted "dramatic effect" music stuck into the video. I hear you over the cam wear, I wasn't sure what the expected result would or should look like given the special soft cam but it certainly didn't look like pulling a healthy cam out from an engine and admiring how well the oil run on it protected it. 

[customboss]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Cam pulled showed pitting and yet they claimed SP oils will protect the flat tappet system.

I missed that. The cam looked new.. you making that up or am I losing it...? 

[customboss]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Lee says butthurt because I don't like the result. Second time I'll say I don't like the test because it is flawed silly. I say garbage in....garbage out. Junk, just like I said.  Lee, no need to belittle the messenger when you don't get the response you wish for. 

Wasn't aimed at you but if the shoe fits.  I wanted your honest opinion why I asked you to respond. I had no desired response.   

The test is solid and I was impressed that Lake S Jr cobbled it together for higher end synthetics that are so boutiqe hardly anyone here has heard of them.

 

He did it on his dime so its not leveraged against anyone. It shows how a engine oil needs to be idealized for environment and application. Relying on API SP or higher spark engine oil is adequate for 99% of us consumers.  

 

Amsoil overall is the winner. 

 

Shell's secret additive package in Ultra Pennzoil Platinum BEATS expensive oils and costs less. 

 

Base oils in this test were NOT as critical as the add pack base oil balance.  

 

Phillips 66 needs to reformulate Redline or they are gonna lose business, NO oil can handle that much additive load nor is it needed and this test shows that in a known engine that is broken in and has 1000's of hours running oil tests for NASCAR, JE pistons and many different CAM companies.