Disarming Onstar

[Jsdirt]

Well said.

 

I live in a nanny state - where the government feels it's smarter than the populace & legislates accordingly. If you let them, they'll just keep doing that.

 

I don't need anyone to take care of me. I do that just fine myself.

 

And Mike -- how is it that someone else ends up paying my bills??? I hear this constantly. Nobody has ever paid my bills, even when I wasn't able to. They just keep piling up until they get paid - BY ME. With that in mind, I'LL DO WHATEVER I WANT IN MY VEHICLE, so long as it doesn't infringe on anyone else's freedom. It's my vehicle.

[Black02Silverado]

I wonder how many individuals out there will not buy a GM vehicle because it has OnStar?

[Superperv23]

Let me throw this out:

 

I have Onstar in my truck and it is not enabled. I get into a serious wreck and push the Onstar button. They refuse to send assistance and I die. Does my wife have a lawsuit? Isn't it everyone's responsibility to take due diligence in their daily activities? Did Onstar show due diligence by refusing to call an ambulance for me, or did they show a blatant disregard based solely upon money?

 

First off you are using the term due diligence incorrectly.

 

If you were in a crash and hit the blue onstar button then they would absolutely send you assistance whether you paid for it or not. They have a civil legal obligation to do so as they have sufficient proximity to you to establish a duty of care under tort law. Which basically means if you pressed the blue button and they told you no help and you died your wife could sue them into the stone age and since it would be the first case of the nature and the way american lawyers like to work they would go for exemplary damages likely around 100 million.

[mhenshaw]

Most people, including you, have no idea what they were doing and dont realize they were never going to get a ticket or higher insurance premium from it. There is seemingly no reasoning either so I shall just let you continue to think whatever you want.

 

 

No one will ever agree on this as we all have different opinions on matters. You think you are right and that is fine but don’t say we wear tin hats cause we think a company is doing something wrong. Here are my last points to yours and then I’m done:

 

Your work paid compensation is different than insurance. All insurance is based solely on statistics. Home owners insurance is not based on what codes you break like plugging in 13 plugs in an outlet. Life insurance is not based on if you have been skydiving before. Why should car insurance be different? It should be based on vehicle and area you live unless you ask for discounts then you give more information.

 

You act like you know everything on this matter because you called OnStar customer service. Do you really believe a company’s customer service knows anything? The only way to know for certain on what OnStar plans to do is be in the corporate office. Until you get some hard evidence from someone high up then you or I won’t know what data will be used.

 

Lastly I majored in Marketing and companies that sell data like this sell rights to other companies to mine the data. So say State Farm purchases a year of rights for 5 million then they pass an Access Database to their agents. Once the agents got the Access Database they would run their VIN numbers through and compare this year’s odometer reading to last years. Then they find out a driver put 50k miles and start charging more.

[dataspng]

Let me throw this out:

 

I have Onstar in my truck and it is not enabled. I get into a serious wreck and push the Onstar button. They refuse to send assistance and I die. Does my wife have a lawsuit? Isn't it everyone's responsibility to take due diligence in their daily activities? Did Onstar show due diligence by refusing to call an ambulance for me, or did they show a blatant disregard based solely upon money?

 

 

If you were in a crash and hit the blue onstar button then they would absolutely send you assistance whether you paid for it or not. They have a civil legal obligation to do so as they have sufficient proximity to you to establish a duty of care under tort law. Which basically means if you pressed the blue button and they told you no help and you died your wife could sue them into the stone age and since it would be the first case of the nature and the way american lawyers like to work they would go for exemplary damages likely around 100 million.

 

 

 

 

Actually you may want to google cases where On-Star did not provide service for folks with expired membership. One high profile I remember in the news was a Kidnapping / Car Jacking case with the child still in the car and On-Star would not give out the cars location due to expired membership. I have no personal knowledge on the case but it was on major news channels and media.

 

I was also told by On-Star that I would NOT have emergency service if it was expired, but could sign up by pressing the blue button with a major credit card. I took that as... If I get in a wreck, air bag deploys and I'm knocked out the ambulance would not show up automatically. I would have to hit the blue button with visa card in hand to get help. Not trying to start a flame war, just want folks to be careful and not assume On-Star will respond if expired.

[dlewis1111]

Let me throw this out:

 

I have Onstar in my truck and it is not enabled. I get into a serious wreck and push the Onstar button. They refuse to send assistance and I die. Does my wife have a lawsuit? Isn't it everyone's responsibility to take due diligence in their daily activities? Did Onstar show due diligence by refusing to call an ambulance for me, or did they show a blatant disregard based solely upon money?

 

First off you are using the term due diligence incorrectly.

 

If you were in a crash and hit the blue onstar button then they would absolutely send you assistance whether you paid for it or not. They have a civil legal obligation to do so as they have sufficient proximity to you to establish a duty of care under tort law. Which basically means if you pressed the blue button and they told you no help and you died your wife could sue them into the stone age and since it would be the first case of the nature and the way american lawyers like to work they would go for exemplary damages likely around 100 million.

 

 

I like the term proximity of care. The due diligence was all that came to mind when I originally posted. Not a lawyer you see.

[Superperv23]

You act like you know everything on this matter because you called OnStar customer service. Do you really believe a company’s customer service knows anything? The only way to know for certain on what OnStar plans to do is be in the corporate office. Until you get some hard evidence from someone high up then you or I won’t know what data will be used.

 

Lastly I majored in Marketing and companies that sell data like this sell rights to other companies to mine the data. So say State Farm purchases a year of rights for 5 million then they pass an Access Database to their agents. Once the agents got the Access Database they would run their VIN numbers through and compare this year’s odometer reading to last years. Then they find out a driver put 50k miles and start charging more.

 

I do not remember stating I spoke with a customer service rep nor do I remember speaking with one, maybe you should not read into things and make assumptions when someone says they spoke with onstar. You further back up my point you do not understand what they planed do with the information they were going to sell which was anonymized meaning they can not find out it was you who drove 50k miles last year.

 

Just to shut everyone up about the insurance thing, I am going to give some free advice. Insurance contracts are considered to be what is called of utmost good faith, meaning that if the inured person knowingly withheld information they knew would be relevant to the insurance policy or they made false declarations in the application process the insurer is able to rescind the policy. Meaning that if you total your vehicle and have claimed to drive low miles which is false or claimed to use it for pleasure only which is false and it was totaled in one of those activities they can simply return any money paid to them and act as if you never had a policy. So I would think twice before you incorrectly state your mileage to save a few hundred dollars.

 

Actually you may want to google cases where On-Star did not provide service for folks with expired membership. One high profile I remember in the news was a Kidnapping / Car Jacking case with the child still in the car and On-Star would not give out the cars location due to expired membership. I have no personal knowledge on the case but it was on major news channels and media.

 

I was also told by On-Star that I would NOT have emergency service if it was expired, but could sign up by pressing the blue button with a major credit card. I took that as... If I get in a wreck, air bag deploys and I'm knocked out the ambulance would not show up automatically. I would have to hit the blue button with visa card in hand to get help. Not trying to start a flame war, just want folks to be careful and not assume On-Star will respond if expired.

 

I tried to find that an could not, any idea where when it might have been? You are correct as of now if you have an expired service and you crash they will not be notified as they do not maintain a data connection with your vehicle once it is expired you can initiate contact through the emergency button and they will send you an ambulance without making you sign up first though.

[dataspng]

You act like you know everything on this matter because you called OnStar customer service. Do you really believe a company's customer service knows anything? The only way to know for certain on what OnStar plans to do is be in the corporate office. Until you get some hard evidence from someone high up then you or I won't know what data will be used.

 

Lastly I majored in Marketing and companies that sell data like this sell rights to other companies to mine the data. So say State Farm purchases a year of rights for 5 million then they pass an Access Database to their agents. Once the agents got the Access Database they would run their VIN numbers through and compare this year's odometer reading to last years. Then they find out a driver put 50k miles and start charging more.

 

I do not remember stating I spoke with a customer service rep nor do I remember speaking with one, maybe you should not read into things and make assumptions when someone says they spoke with onstar. You further back up my point you do not understand what they planed do with the information they were going to sell which was anonymized meaning they can not find out it was you who drove 50k miles last year.

 

Just to shut everyone up about the insurance thing, I am going to give some free advice. Insurance contracts are considered to be what is called of utmost good faith, meaning that if the inured person knowingly withheld information they knew would be relevant to the insurance policy or they made false declarations in the application process the insurer is able to rescind the policy. Meaning that if you total your vehicle and have claimed to drive low miles which is false or claimed to use it for pleasure only which is false and it was totaled in one of those activities they can simply return any money paid to them and act as if you never had a policy. So I would think twice before you incorrectly state your mileage to save a few hundred dollars.

 

Actually you may want to google cases where On-Star did not provide service for folks with expired membership. One high profile I remember in the news was a Kidnapping / Car Jacking case with the child still in the car and On-Star would not give out the cars location due to expired membership. I have no personal knowledge on the case but it was on major news channels and media.

 

I was also told by On-Star that I would NOT have emergency service if it was expired, but could sign up by pressing the blue button with a major credit card. I took that as... If I get in a wreck, air bag deploys and I'm knocked out the ambulance would not show up automatically. I would have to hit the blue button with visa card in hand to get help. Not trying to start a flame war, just want folks to be careful and not assume On-Star will respond if expired.

 

I tried to find that an could not, any idea where when it might have been? You are correct as of now if you have an expired service and you crash they will not be notified as they do not maintain a data connection with your vehicle once it is expired you can initiate contact through the emergency button and they will send you an ambulance without making you sign up first though.

 

 

Sorry... cant find the news artical... It was about a year ago in Florida if I remember right and about the time I was thinking of renewing my On-Star for the year on one the rigs so it caught my attention. Google search shows way more cases On-Star helped then hindered so I will retract my statement. Since expired accounts under the current policy require someone to press the blue button in the car, that may have been the issue since a car-jacker is not likely to press the button. Sorry if I caused any high blood pressure.. Be careful out there folks and drive safe.

[Debo511]

Lets all disconect the SDM also , it records information in a crash

[scottmoyer]

Just an FYI on the mileage thing with insurance. Not sure of the price difference between saying that you don't drive alot and you actually do versus saying you drive alot and then don't. I just recently changed my policy downward from 20k+ miles annually and my truck being marked as Commute vehicle to less than 7500 as pleasure and my premium changed something like $1.75 a month. Not worth being dishonest about if going the other direction and stating actual mileage.

[riverrat69]

I am honestly starting to think you are insane or a terrible driver or both...You are seemingly paranoid about crashing your truck into someone and being sued, maybe it is best if you just sell the truck and buy a bus pass

 

Maybe you wouldn't object to having OnStar release your MPH information to your insurance company.

 

This is crazy talk. Never gonna happen, there would be too much of an uproar if insurance did things like this and A LOT more people would disconnect this feature if it was like this. Until it is law for vehicles to be able to record things like this, worrying about it is a waste of time.

 

 

FYI you can get 1 tons without onstar, we got new ones at work without it.

 

Really? Then tell me why you think it is legal for you to get a ticket for running a photo red light even if some one else was driving. They are ticketing the vehicle. And in case you haven't noticed lately, especially here in Florida, insurance companies have the state's blessing to do whatever they want.

[riverrat69]

Well everyone can stop panicking as onstar have reverted back to the old terms and conditions just over an hour ago. I had a lengthy conversation with onstar about the issue just now and I would like to make a few points.

 

First off as I stated many replies ago, that noone listened too, if you want to totally disable onstar you arrange it through your dealer. Had you have done this under the new terms and condition it would have been free as they had to offer it free to give you the option of not excepting the terms. Now however if you want to be totally disabled you will have to either do it yourself or go to the dealer and pay standard shop rates.

 

Now as it stands if you do not want to be tracked you just call up and cancel the service if you pay for it. This leaves the modules intact in the vehicle so that at some point in time it could be restored by simply calling them. None of the services will work and they will not be notified if you are involved in a crash. So just to be clear if you do not pay the fee they have no idea what you are doing, you can leave the module connected.

 

Finally the paranoia of a few will almost certainly cost the lives of others as onstar having a connection to a vehicle without an active plan means that in the event of a crash they would have been notified and would have acted on it. I find it extremely hard to swallow that millions of people could have had crash response in exchange for onstar selling some data of people who do not care that they sell it. However because a few people are so paranoid that someone might give them a ticket because they deserved one, confirmed them at fault in an accident when they were at fault, or maybe even called a subscriber and said their husbands vehicle was always parked out side of a strip club and told her maybe her marriage was not going to work out that now someone somewhere could be involved in a single vehicle accident on a deserted road and no one will know until it is too late. So if you bitched about onstar tracking you and that happens to someone you know realize that next time you should think before you act and ask questions rather than make statements.

I'm real proud of some one like you that has never ever broken some kind of regulation while driving. Where and who else lives in your perfect world?

[Superperv23]

Really? Then tell me why you think it is legal for you to get a ticket for running a photo red light even if some one else was driving. They are ticketing the vehicle. And in case you haven't noticed lately, especially here in Florida, insurance companies have the state's blessing to do whatever they want.

 

You do not get a ticket if someone else is driving the vehicle though, you have the option to sign an affidavit stating who was driving the vehicle at the time. Most systems now record an image of the driver as well to prevent people passing the points off to someone else drivers licence.

 

 

I'm real proud of some one like you that has never ever broken some kind of regulation while driving. Where and who else lives in your perfect world?

 

When did I say that? Of course I have broken "some kind of regulation" while driving, I have long given up excessive speeding and such tho because it just is not worth it anymore with price of gas and insurance rates after a ticket. If you must know I had a ticket in 2003 for doing 133km/h in a 110km/h zone, a ticket in 2005 for not obeying traffic signs the cop let me off of doing 77km/h in a 50km/h, and a ticket in 2010 for breaking some kind of noise bylaw. And I have been pulled over for driving left of center on a residential street, burnt out tail light, driving what the officer said was to fast into a merge lane with a yield sign, driving wrong way down a one way street, and there once there was a whole big thing when I had my plates stolen.

[scottmoyer]

Let's not get started on the Florida red light camera issue. Red light cameras have been deemed illegal in a lot of states due to the infringement of privacy. In Florida, the issue is still waiting on court decisions. The vehicle owner gets the ticket in Florida because they take a shot of the rear license plate only. You can deal with the ticket or you can tell the police who was driving your vehicle. In this case, you are guilty until proven innocent. It's also a constitutional issue due to the lack of being able to confront the accuser. That is against the law. Plus, you have the entire "safety" vs revenue issue. In Florida, many cities have been found guilty of shortening the yellow transition to collect more revenue. I have done plenty of research on the red light camera issue and it is illegal. The courts just haven't ruled yet. It's another sign of government corruption. If they extend the yellow by just a couple seconds, it has been proven that red light running will decrease 88%. They also need to adjust the green light to clear a turning lane. If town and cities would adjust green lights and yellow lights accordingly, it would also save gas from people idling. The gov't gets tax dollars for every gallon purchased. Again, they have vested interests in why these things happen the way they do.

[dlewis1111]

Onstar announced today that they have reversed their decision to track people even when there is no subscription. We can take off the tin foil hats now.