(Off Topic, but) Question about 2015 Malibu Start/Stop Feature

[Service1956]

Wife wants a new Malibu. The only thing that concerns me, is the start/stop that this car has. The only thing I cannot help to think about, is the idea of having to replace the starter in it more often then normal! That, and the small battery that powers the electrical items during a stop (engine shut down). It would also seem like the main battery would have a shorter life as well.

 

Any comments from people that possibly would know more about this system?

[Doug_Scott]

Starter motors have become a lot more efficient in the last decade or so. Was not that long ago that battery technology was still the same as 100 years ago.

The change to gear reduction starters was long overdue. Starter motors now have a longer life. Can't really compare starter/battery life from the 70's to what we have now. They are so different, it has become apples and oranges. Not only the battery/starter technology changed, the entire engine/electronics have changed as well.

 

I think the best way to think of what you are asking is to think of how long a starter used to last, then, divide that by 3 or 4 (start/stop systems must start engine at least 3 or 4 times more than what used to be normal). GM has already agreed to cover that system for 3 years/60k. On the surface it would appear that GM is going to take a beating on warranty claims for starter motors, with them having to replace them a couple of times under warranty if everything is equal. To my way of thinking, starter/battery life will not be as bad as it appears on the surface. This would not stop me from purchasing a vehicle with this system on it.

 

Not sure the delay before being able to move is a good thing though. Currently we have an issue with how long before the 10th car in line can start moving after the light changes. Theoretically every car in line should be able to start moving at the exact same time, provided they are all synchronized for acceleration and reaction time. But they are not. If having to wait a half second for the car to start, that will add a half second to the time to wait before moving. Those half seconds add up. We are fast approaching having the light change from green to amber before the 10th car in line even starts moving.

[newdude]

It is a stout system. Haven't seen any in yet with issues.

 

http://sandyblogs.com/techlink/?p=4453

 

and:

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/malibu/2015.html

 

Stop/start technology enhances efficiency
Malibu has two powerful and efficient powertrain offerings: the standard 2.5L iVLC (intake valve lift control) with stop/start technology and a 2.0L turbo. The stop/start feature on the 2.5L shuts down the engine in certain driving conditions to reduce fuel consumption. Along with other technologies, including direct injection, variable valve lift control and a six-speed automatic transmission, the 2.5L powertrain contributes to EPA-estimated fuel economy ratings of 25 mpg in city driving and 36 mpg on the highway.

There are no buttons to push or procedures to learn with Malibu’s stop/start system. It automatically shuts down the engine when the car comes to a stop under certain driving conditions, such as a stoplight. The engine automatically restarts when the driver takes his or her foot off the brake. The system monitors vehicle speed, climate control system operation and other factors to determine whether it is efficient to shut off the engine.

Unique components used with stop/start include:

• A tandem-solenoid starter that enables the engine to restart more quickly and more smoothly – even if the engine hasn’t come to a complete stop
• An electrically driven transmission auxiliary hydraulic pressure pump that keeps the fluid in the six-speed automatic circulating and primed for immediate take-off when the driver removes his or her foot from the brake pedal
• Larger, 12-volt absorbent glass mat (AGM) primary battery – which delivers up to four times the typical life cycle of a conventional battery – and a small, auxiliary 12-volt AGM battery
• Dual-battery isolation module that ensures both batteries are properly charged and the primary battery always has a sufficient charge to start the vehicle
• Torque-reaction engine mounts that dampen the vibrations associated with a restart, helping deliver smooth, nearly imperceptible performance.

The 2.5L is SAE-certified at 196 horsepower (146 kW) and 186 lb-ft of torque (252 Nm). Revised transmission shift points and quicker shifts also enhance the feeling of performance – while delivering greater refinement.

The Malibu’s available 2.0L turbo engine delivers nearly 14 percent more torque than its predecessor– SAE-certified 295 lb-ft (400 Nm). Revised engine calibration accounts for the improvement, making the Malibu 2.0L turbo’s torque the best in the segment, even among six-cylinder competitors. The result is a stronger feeling of acceleration from a stop and a greater feeling of power on demand in almost all driving conditions. The 2.0L turbo also produces an SAE-certified 259 horsepower (193 kW).

 

[Jsdirt]

I cringe at the thought of this car when it's 10 years old. Good God Almighty ... the troubleshooting sequence would keep me awake at night! A big NO THANKS from me ...

[Doug_Scott]

I cringe at the thought of this car when it's 10 years old. Good God Almighty ... the troubleshooting sequence would keep me awake at night! A big NO THANKS from me ...

 

With any luck it is designed to "fail safe". This is one of the few times I am happy being as old as I am. By the time this stuff starts acting up, I won't care.

[calgator73]

Wife wants a new Malibu. The only thing that concerns me, is the start/stop that this car has. The only thing I cannot help to think about, is the idea of having to replace the starter in it more often then normal! That, and the small battery that powers the electrical items during a stop (engine shut down). It would also seem like the main battery would have a shorter life as well.

 

Any comments from people that possibly would know more about this system?

Wife has same powertrain in her lacrosse...just hit 48k. No issues period. The fact you can jump yourself off is really cool. Walked her through the process. The starter/generator is massive...the only thing that is odd is the belt change interval. Most vehicles it's simply check them...this one is time change.

 

Wouldn't sweat the battery size. The car manages the charge state to maximize longevity. In fact you can't set still for too long before the engine restarts itself....even with the air conditioning in eco.

[newdude]

Wife has same powertrain in her lacrosse...just hit 48k. No issues period. The fact you can jump yourself off is really cool. Walked her through the process. The starter/generator is massive...the only thing that is odd is the belt change interval. Most vehicles it's simply check them...this one is time change.

 

Wouldn't sweat the battery size. The car manages the charge state to maximize longevity. In fact you can't set still for too long before the engine restarts itself....even with the air conditioning in eco.

 

That is the eAssist system which is no longer available on Malibu. Was called the ECO model. This is the 2.5 Ecotec with start/stop system. It is standard equipment on all 2.5 Ecotec Malibu trims. Check my other post above.

[calgator73]

My bad...thought it was the other one. Is it a belt driven starter/ alternator?

[Doug_Scott]

My bad...thought it was the other one. Is it a belt driven starter/ alternator?

 

The current start/stop system on the 2.5 is not something you would even notice in the engine compartment from what I can find online. It is a mechanically simple system, shuts off when stopped (and all other parameters are met), then starts engine once brake is released(or other parameters are met). Dual batteries are likely the only give away. Did not find how it is handling the vacuum in the brake booster with engine shut off. Does it use a vacuum pump instead of engine vacuum now? Otherwise the driver will not have power brakes available if they shift their foot around while stopped. Or they will have a very short period of no power assist while engine is restarting. I am describing what would happen when you are sitting at the lights and alter your foots position on the brake pedal.

 

I was standing at a corner downtown recently next to a stopped car with the stop/start system on it. I found the sound of an engine starting when you don't expect to hear it a bit unnerving.

 

Going a bit off topic here, but, anyone know whatever happened to the lithium-iron batteries that were coming out a few years ago? These batteries were a lot lighter than AGM, smaller dimension as well. Last I saw they were coming out for bikes, but seem to have disappeared.

[Jsdirt]

I tried a lithium iron battery in a dual sport motorcycle a couple years back. Total WASTE of $50. The thing turned into a paperweight in less than 2 minutes. If the voltage ever goes below 11v, instant paperweight. Also, if voltage goes above a certain voltage, not much higher than a couple volts above what it is at rest, also makes it a paperweight. Total useless POS.

 

I returned the one I fried .. argued with the guy on the phone, because he told me this was a perfect application for it (and knowing what I knew at that time about them, I agreed) - he reluctantly sent me another. Fried that one in about 5 minutes! Rode the bike to the bank and back, and threw it on my charger on the AGM setting as recommended - 3 volts the next morning.

 

Don't ever waste your money on one. Automotive charging systems are not compatible for one (no matter what they tell you), and if you like to listen to your radio with the engine off, your asking for trouble. Apparrently I'm not the only one this has happened to, so that should be the end of those things, thankfully.

[Doug_Scott]

I was looking more for the motorcycle actually. I first heard about these batteries just before my last back surgery, and at the time, the battery in my 02 FZ1 was acting up. I knew I was going to be off the bike for a year or so (or so I thought), I would wait until it was nearing time to get the bike back on the road. I did the major storage procedure on the bike and covered it up. 5 years later and I may be able to get back on it this year, need to finally get a battery. The weight difference and at the time the performance claims, made the battery sound too good to be true. Sounds like waiting actually worked out for a change.

[calgator73]

 

The current start/stop system on the 2.5 is not something you would even notice in the engine compartment from what I can find online. It is a mechanically simple system, shuts off when stopped (and all other parameters are met), then starts engine once brake is released(or other parameters are met). Dual batteries are likely the only give away. Did not find how it is handling the vacuum in the brake booster with engine shut off. Does it use a vacuum pump instead of engine vacuum now? Otherwise the driver will not have power brakes available if they shift their foot around while stopped. Or they will have a very short period of no power assist while engine is restarting. I am describing what would happen when you are sitting at the lights and alter your foots position on the brake pedal.

 

I was standing at a corner downtown recently next to a stopped car with the stop/start system on it. I found the sound of an engine starting when you don't expect to hear it a bit unnerving.

 

Going a bit off topic here, but, anyone know whatever happened to the lithium-iron batteries that were coming out a few years ago? These batteries were a lot lighter than AGM, smaller dimension as well. Last I saw they were coming out for bikes, but seem to have disappeared.

Johnson controls touts the AGM battery developed for the start/stop setup as ideal for the deep discharge scenarios. Did check out the owners manual for a new Malibu. Seems to only allow 2 or 3 minutes of stop time and monitors battery condition to keep it from getting out of sorts. Was kind of curious on something. The starter for the new model is only slightly more expensive than the outgoing model and there is a separate alternator listed. Here is an excerpt from C&D

"The Impala LS and LT Eco trims–each $2000–$2275 dearer than their gas-powered LS and LT counterparts—make up fewer than 1 percent of all Impala sales–will be discontinued. Not everything eAssist is dead, however—the setup’s heavier-duty starter motor and electric transmission pump carry over to the new stop-start system, just as they did in the Malibu. (The system also lives on in the Buick LaCrosse and Regal.) Also similar to the 2014 Malibu, the Impala’s stop-start system will be standard on all models utilizing the base 2.5-liter four-cylinder engine. Stop-start boosts four-cylinder Impalas’ city fuel economy estimates by 1 mpg, to 22 mpg city; the highway estimate remains 31 mpg. (The Impala with eAssist, for reference was EPA-rated for 25/35 mpg.) For this mild improvement, the Impala’s base price rises a negligible $65 to $27,735. The fuel-saving tech won’t be available on Impala models with the 3.6-liter V-6, which GM attributed to development costs and software changes that haven’t been applied beyond its 2.4-liter and 2.5-liter Ecotec engines.

General Motors didn’t simply add stop-start and call it a day, however; the automaker added some clever features to ensure the operation is as seamless as possible. For example, the Impala, uses specific motor mounts to quell vibration, while stop-start’s electronic brain is smart enough to keep the engine running if the car doesn’t reach 6 mph—a welcome feature in crawling traffic where continuous stop-start cycles cause us to tear out hair. Like Ford, which has pledged to add stop-start systems in 70 percent of its lineup by 2017, GM said it was considering other models but wouldn’t name names."

[calgator73]

Wife wants a new Malibu. The only thing that concerns me, is the start/stop that this car has. The only thing I cannot help to think about, is the idea of having to replace the starter in it more often then normal! That, and the small battery that powers the electrical items during a stop (engine shut down). It would also seem like the main battery would have a shorter life as well.

 

Any comments from people that possibly would know more about this system?

http://sandyblogs.com/techlink/?p=4453

[Jsdirt]

Any vehicle that requires a "web based training course" just to understand ONE system, I think I'd pass on ... just MHO ...

[Doug_Scott]

Any vehicle that requires a "web based training course" just to understand ONE system, I think I'd pass on ... just MHO ...

 

I much prefer to be able to read up on this sort of stuff online for free then to have to purchase/subscribe to a manual. The way it is described in that link, the average driver does not need to know the details to operate the car.