Towing trouble

[YerMomsHouse]

Hello,

I could not find the proper section for this topic so, moderators, please move it to the appropriate place.  Thanks.

 

I have a 2014 Sierra Denali crew cab with the 5.3L, 22" rims, and it has 4 wheel drive.  Its rated towing capacity is 9700lbs.  

 

I also have a 2014 Keystone Hideout 28bhs.  Its dry weight is 6,784lbs.  I currently have an estimated 500lbs of additional cargo for camping.  The tongue weight is listed as 895lbs.  

The truck has the load leveling hitch, sway controller, and tow package/brake controller.  

 

In absolutely optimum conditions the combo tows just fine.  However, on normal roads, like we all see every day, there is a ridiculous bonce that goes on while driving.  Its enough to make one sick.  The trailer also seem to move my truck around a lot.  The rear end of the truck seems to move side to side quite a bit.  It doesn't squat much when connected to the trailer, but you can tell.  And then when there is the least bit of wind, just forget it.  Its all over the place.  Going faster than 50mph doesn't seem safe.  

 

I love my truck, and I love my trailer.  So, I would like to keep them both.  So...

 

I am looking for advice on how to make it better for the truck I have.  The trailer weight is well under truck capacity.  Airbags on the rear?  Different tires?  Any advice would be appreciated.  

 

And please, I already understand that I may need a different truck and/or trailer.  But in the meantime, Id like to make this work while driving at least the speed limit.  Thanks.  

[bdbake01]

My first thought is you don’t have enough tongue weight and the tail is wagging the dog. Try taking some of the preload out of your WDH and see how it rides. With a ~900lb tongue weight you really don’t even need a WDH. Where is your extra cargo located?

[Donstar]

Your sway/stabilizer bars are not setup properly or they are not the proper weight category for your truck.  Check your manufacturer's instructions and/or you may find a useful youtube to help.  

[Jon A]

1 hour ago, YerMomsHouse said:

I am looking for advice on how to make it better for the truck I have. 

A set of airbags will dramatically improve your truck.  A set of E-Rated tires run at higher pressures when towing will further help eliminate much of the slop in the rear end when towing.

 

Then, go to a scale to make sure everything is set up correctly.  You can find scales here:  https://catscale.com/cat-scale-locator/

 

Make sure you have enough tongue weight (shoot for 12-15% with a trailer like that) and that the WDH is returning at least 50% of the weight to the front wheels.  You'll need to take three measurements to figure that out--truck empty, truck & trailer without WDH bars engaged, truck & trailer with WDH bars engaged.  If your WDH does not have built in sway control you might want to get one that does for that trailer.

[YerMomsHouse]

6 hours ago, bdbake01 said:

My first thought is you don’t have enough tongue weight and the tail is wagging the dog. Try taking some of the preload out of your WDH and see how it rides. With a ~900lb tongue weight you really don’t even need a WDH. Where is your extra cargo located?

The extra cargo is spread throughout the camper.  But if I had to answer one location, most of it would be in the front pass through storage compartment.  But its mostly camping chairs, life jackets, propane grills, etc.  

There is a storage compartment in the rear that holds a small tool kit, water hose, and leveling blocks.  

 

And I guess I am not sure what you mean by preload.  How hard should it be to crank those bars/chains into place?

[YerMomsHouse]

6 hours ago, Donstar said:

Your sway/stabilizer bars are not setup properly or they are not the proper weight category for your truck.  Check your manufacturer's instructions and/or you may find a useful youtube to help.  

Thanks.  I will try that.  

[YerMomsHouse]

4 hours ago, Jon A said:

A set of airbags will dramatically improve your truck.  A set of E-Rated tires run at higher pressures when towing will further help eliminate much of the slop in the rear end when towing.

 

Then, go to a scale to make sure everything is set up correctly.  You can find scales here:  https://catscale.com/cat-scale-locator/

 

Make sure you have enough tongue weight (shoot for 12-15% with a trailer like that) and that the WDH is returning at least 50% of the weight to the front wheels.  You'll need to take three measurements to figure that out--truck empty, truck & trailer without WDH bars engaged, truck & trailer with WDH bars engaged.  If your WDH does not have built in sway control you might want to get one that does for that trailer.

I was wondering if airbags would help.  I have looked a quite a few models since reading your post.  Do you recommend replacing the springs with airbags or simply adding the helper airbags?

 

I will definitely take the weight distribution into consideration.  I guess I didn't realize that tongue weight meant so much.  I thought it was hook it up and go.

 

Thanks all for the advice.  I will work on all of that this week and get back to you.  Thanks again.  I very much appreciate it.  

[bdbake01]

2 minutes ago, YerMomsHouse said:

The extra cargo is spread throughout the camper.  But if I had to answer one location, most of it would be in the front pass through storage compartment.  But its mostly camping chairs, life jackets, propane grills, etc.  

There is a storage compartment in the rear that holds a small tool kit, water hose, and leveling blocks.  

 

And I guess I am not sure what you mean by preload.  How hard should it be to crank those bars/chains into place?

 

Shouldn't be very hard at all. Not sure which hitch you have?  But if you’re asking, that leads me to believe that your bars are probably too tight. With that tongue weight, you really don’t need much weight distribution (and I’m admittedly a big fan of WDH). 

 

In this context, preload basically refers to “how tight are your bars”. 

[bdbake01]

5 minutes ago, YerMomsHouse said:

I was wondering if airbags would help.  I have looked a quite a few models since reading your post.  Do you recommend replacing the springs with airbags or simply adding the helper airbags?

 

I will definitely take the weight distribution into consideration.  I guess I didn't realize that tongue weight meant so much.  I thought it was hook it up and go.

 

Thanks all for the advice.  I will work on all of that this week and get back to you.  Thanks again.  I very much appreciate it.  

Airbags won’t help in this case. Plz trust me. 

[Jon A]

1 hour ago, YerMomsHouse said:

Do you recommend replacing the springs with airbags or simply adding the helper airbags?

 

Helper bags with these trucks.  I like the Air Lift LoadLifter 5000 Ultimate bags for these trucks myself, Firestone makes a good kit (though they recently redesigned their mounting brackets--not sure how I feel about the new design yet) as well as some others.

 

1 hour ago, bdbake01 said:

Airbags won’t help in this case. Plz trust me. 

 

Yes, they most certainly will.  Making the truck better always helps.  Just how much depends on the setup (until he gets to scales you have no idea exactly how it has been set up).  But,

 

7 hours ago, YerMomsHouse said:

 there is a ridiculous bonce that goes on while driving.  Its enough to make one sick. 

 

That problem in particular, is directly a result of the rear spring rates being too low (soft) for the load they are carrying.  Airbags will fix this problem directly by increasing the rear spring rate to a level proportionate with the load they are carrying.

[bdbake01]

4 minutes ago, Jon A said:

 

Helper bags with these trucks.  I like the Air Lift LoadLifter 5000 Ultimate bags for these trucks myself, Firestone makes a good kit (though they recently redesigned their mounting brackets--not sure how I feel about the new design yet) as well as some others.

 

 

Yes, they most certainly will.  Making the truck better always helps.  Just how much depends on the setup (until he gets to scales you have no idea exactly how it has been set up).  But,

 

 

That problem in particular, is directly a result of the rear spring rates being too low (soft) for the load they are carrying.  Airbags will fix this problem directly by increasing the rear spring rate to a level proportionate with the load they are carrying.

Actually it’s most likely a result of a low dampening rate combined with low loading of the rear suspension. 

 

Which airbags will only make worse. 

[2017HD]

Without good weights it is really hard to say where your problem is. WD hitches have different size spring bars - having the right size is important. Too light of a bar will not be able to lift the wt of the hitch and truck cargo. Some hitches like Equalizer and Blue Ox also have additional friction to reduce lateral movement that creates sway. Air bags will help with sag but not help with the transfer of wt to the front wheels. Equalizer did a great video on this - without bias - check you tube. Now most dealers I have experienced do not set up these hitches correctly  my last one set the ball too low and tried to make it up with the bars - the 40 miles to home were horrible - the rig was very twitchy and got worse with speed. At home I went back over the hitch setup - raised the ball and now it handles like a dream. I suggest that your get out and follow the instructions that came with your hitch.

 

The other thing you need to be aware of is that your Tow Rating INCLUDES all of the payload capacity of the truck, and that tongue wts on trailers do not include batteries or the LPG in the tanks - consider that around 100 lbs or more that is directly on the tongue in addition to the wts posted. Water tank positioning also makes a difference to the tongue wt.

 

When you visit your scales - weigh the truck getting each axle - try to have a full tank of fuel and perhaps your family. When you take the trailer do not have any WD equipment attached and again weigh each axle (the trailer set can be weighed as one, but having separate wts is nice). Things you should notice with the trailer - the truck's rear axle will gain wt and the front axle will lose wt. For practical purposes the total tongue wt is the lost wt of the front axle added to the gain of the rear axle.

 

Out of all of this you need to make sure that you don't exceed any of the Gross Ratings - that includes the Vehicle and both axles.

[Jon A]

6 hours ago, bdbake01 said:

Actually it’s most likely a result of a low dampening rate combined with low loading of the rear suspension.

 

False.  When you actually understand how things work, you don't need to speak in "most likely"s.  I would be happy to explain the Engineering reasons behind it if you're ever open to listening to something other than old wives' tales about airbags.

 

6 hours ago, bdbake01 said:

Which airbags will only make worse. 

 

False.  Alternatively, you could listen to the thousands of people out there who actually have them on their trucks and can easily do A/B experiments--I can literally let all the air out of my bags, hook up to a trailer, take off driving down the road as far as I need to feel how well the truck is handling the trailer, push a button (onboard air) to inflate the bags to 30, 40, 50 (for really big loads) psi and compare the difference.  Maybe actually try it sometime?  The difference is quite dramatic, in the opposite direction of your wives' tales.

[bdbake01]

53 minutes ago, Jon A said:

 

False.  When you actually understand how things work, you don't need to speak in "most likely"s.  I would be happy to explain the Engineering reasons behind it if you're ever open to listening to something other than old wives' tales about airbags.

 

 

False.  Alternatively, you could listen to the thousands of people out there who actually have them on their trucks and can easily do A/B experiments--I can literally let all the air out of my bags, hook up to a trailer, take off driving down the road as far as I need to feel how well the truck is handling the trailer, push a button (onboard air) to inflate the bags to 30, 40, 50 (for really big loads) psi and compare the difference.  Maybe actually try it sometime?  The difference is quite dramatic, in the opposite direction of your wives' tales.

 

I’ll just let the results speak for themselves. Hopefully OP will work things out and report back. In the meantime, I’m not going to waste any more of my time engaged in nonesense. 

 

But for the record I inflated my bags yesterday on the way back from the local bulk supplier with 1.5 cu yds of topsoil in the bed. Leveled her out and made the ride a bit nicer. I’ve never even considered inflating them while towing regardless of which trailer I have behind me since I have a nice WDH and I know how to use it. 

[busydaddy]

Come on with the airbag talk.. let’s prop up the rear so it looks better fish tailing and flipping on the highway?

 

The weights are off somewhere so my advice would be to find a weigh station and get measured with it loaded.

 

If you can’t get the wd system set up to work for you, check out Hensley Arrow. They’re expensive but cheaper and easier than getting a new truck or camper. I found a used one on Craigslist years ago and towing has been smooth sailing ever since.

 

 

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