The Peckish Synapse

[customboss]

19 hours ago, Atlas said:

 

Agreed. But 0w40 may be better suited in that engine to slow wear overall versus 0w20. Not that it would have saved the engine from failure because of a defective crankshaft, but it could slow wear overall.

 

When GM announced the change in recommended oil viscosity, Mobil 1 ESP 0w40 and 0w40 Supercar were virtually impossible to either a) find in stock, b) buy at a reasonable price for almost 2 months.

Viscosity alone DOES NOT STOP FAILURE MODES. Most likely from my experience in failure cause analysis for 50 years it doesn’t slow it either. Please don’t promote that BS. 

[diyer2]

I just want to throw this out here. 

I'm an audiophile, been one for years. 

This industry has, has had equipment problems on some expensive pieces. 

All mass produced goods will have problems some times. 

[Atlas]

2 hours ago, customboss said:

Viscosity alone DOES NOT STOP FAILURE MODES. Most likely from my experience in failure cause analysis for 50 years it doesn’t slow it either. Please don’t promote that BS. 

 

But I'm not saying higher viscosity stops failure modes (GM's 6.2, for example. Or Stellantis' 3.6, which eats cams). I'm saying based on what Grumpy presented it appears a higher viscosity could help slow normal wear under certain conditions.

 

Is that last part untrue, based on your knowledge/experience?

 

FWIW I use manufacturer-recommended oil weight/spec in my engines for purposes of warranty and also reasonable belief that the engine will provide a service life longer than I intend to use it for.

 

 

[customboss]

30 minutes ago, Atlas said:

 

But I'm not saying higher viscosity stops failure modes (GM's 6.2, for example. Or Stellantis' 3.6, which eats cams). I'm saying based on what Grumpy presented it appears a higher viscosity could help slow normal wear under certain conditions.

 

Is that last part untrue, based on your knowledge/experience?

 

FWIW I use manufacturer-recommended oil weight/spec in my engines for purposes of warranty and also reasonable belief that the engine will provide a service life longer than I intend to use it for.

 

 

More viscosity doesn’t slow wear. Appropriate viscosity for the design is what does the job. 
grumpy bear argues against SAE viscosities when engines don’t give a ****** about a spec on an oil can or theoretics. Engines care about minimum operating film thickness. Grumpy doesn’t really understand that and he doesn’t understand that engineering groups test all sorts of different viscosities in their engines for lubricants. They use the best they possibly can to get the best service operation and durability out of an engine now there are extenuating circumstances with poor fuels poor Maintenance and manufacturing defects. Can you possibly slow a defect from failing no. Can you show an oil analysis that with a really trick lubricant you might slow or stop where yes. But your average lubricant and just increasing viscosity does not solve the problem and that’s from 45-50 years of R&D level work with engines lubricants and  fuels.

Grumpy bear is terribly jealous of the people he worked for as a worker B and the fact they treated him poorly because he didn’t have a degree and he has a very abrasive personality. So he gets on here and posts counterarguments and embraces science when it supports his point of view and dismisses science, when it’s egg heads that have no practical experience. In other words, he’s just a grumpy old worker B that’s pissed off that smarter people than him really were smarter than him and many of them are assholes. I get it. I’ve been on both sides. 

 

Edited October 24, 2025 by customboss

[Atlas]

19 minutes ago, customboss said:

More viscosity doesn’t slow wear. Appropriate viscosity for the design is what does the job. 
grumpy bear argues against SAE viscosities when engines don’t give a ****** about a spec on an oil can or theoretics. Engines care about minimum operating film thickness. Grumpy doesn’t really understand that and he doesn’t understand that engineering groups test all sorts of different viscosities in their engines for lubricants. They use the best they possibly can to get the best service operation and durability out of an engine now there are extenuating circumstances with poor fuels poor Maintenance and manufacturing defects. Can you possibly slow a defect from failing no. Can you show an oil analysis that with a really trick lubricant you might slow or stop where yes. But your average lubricant and just increasing viscosity does not solve the problem and that’s from 45-50 years of R&D level work with engines lubricants and  fuels.

Grumpy bear is terribly jealous of the people he worked for as a worker B and the fact they treated him poorly because he didn’t have a degree and he has a very abrasive personality. So he gets on here and posts counterarguments and embraces science when it supports his point of view and dismisses science, when it’s egg heads that have no practical experience. In other words, he’s just a grumpy old worker B that’s pissed off that smarter people than him really were smarter than him and many of them are assholes. I get it. I’ve been on both sides. 

 

 

You've stated my reasons for generally following manufacturer recommendations. I'm generally not swayed by people posting on the internet no matter what they say their credentials are. The internet is the great equalizer - our posts all look the same and we all have equal access to provide our opinions, true and untrue. All kinds of people post on the internet.

 

Let's say higher viscosity does help slow normal wear under certain conditions - just for a second. Am I really going to take that advice to heart and change what I do or go against recommendations, because some guy on the internet said so? Not without independently verifying it.

 

I think this is where I've butted heads with him before - His data may be true. I'm sure he has good experience. I just don't think using a higher viscosity in most cases makes a significant difference.

Edited October 24, 2025 by Atlas

[customboss]

58 minutes ago, Atlas said:

 

You've stated my reasons for generally following manufacturer recommendations. I'm generally not swayed by people posting on the internet no matter what they say their credentials are. The internet is the great equalizer - our posts all look the same and we all have equal access to provide our opinions, true and untrue. All kinds of people post on the internet.

 

Let's say higher viscosity does help slow normal wear under certain conditions - just for a second. Am I really going to take that advice to heart and change what I do or go against recommendations, because some guy on the internet said so? Not without independently verifying it.

 

I think this is where I've butted heads with him before - His data may be true. I'm sure he has good experience. I just don't think using a higher viscosity in most cases makes a significant difference.

I don’t care what people do. But I do care about Is somebody posting on this website constantly as if they know what they’re talking about with mixed facts and self substantiating data.

I’m worried about them confusing the average Joe into just being confused and not knowing what to do.
Having said that running a 5W-30 or even 5w-40synthetic in an engine that’s designed for say 0W 20 it’s not gonna kill it. It’s not gonna cause damage. It’s just ridiculous because it’s not needed.

Edited October 24, 2025 by customboss

[diyer2]

 

 

 

 

My brother in law has a 1988 c 2500 chevy bought at a city auction. Truck was used by parks and rec. dept. 350 with 411 gears 4 speed auto.

 I don't know the mileage but it's up there. He uses the viscosity oil on the filler cap for normal use. He towed a 10k pound trailer for many miles with it but puts straight 30 weight oil in it to tow. 3k OCI's. 

 Still has it.

[Grumpy Bear]

7 hours ago, diyer2 said:

puts straight 30 weight oil in it to tow. 

 

Valvoline Daily Protection Mineral SAE 30 100 C viscosity, 10.3 cSt. 100 C HS viscosity 10.3 cSt (ASTM D6616)

Warren Oil (COSTCO) Full Synthetic 5W30 100 C viscosity 10.9 cSt 100 C HS viscosity 8.1 cSt @ .84 SG or 6.9 cP

Multigrade exhibits a 27% viscosity loss. Temporary shear down to SAE 20. 

I've shown the receipts before. Entire data sheets for both oils. Not posting them again. 

 

A shelf Synthetic 5W40 under ASTM D6616 conditions would, for most shelf oils, act as an SAE 30 at temperature and imposed shear levels of towing. Your brother skins the cat to the same end as I, just a different way. Bully for him! 

[OnTheReel]

Look no further than the boat world which is mostly what I do for work and fun. I have a Honda BF150 outboard on my tin boat. It’s a 2.4L Accord engine turned on end. In the car it’ll take 0w20. Probably about 5 quarts. On a boat? 8 quarts of 10w30. And it runs MUCH cooler than a car engine. Heat and fire on boats = no good. So this thing will sit at 150 degrees all day in cold water. And thus, operating viscosity is several times higher than what even 10w30 would be in a car at higher oil temps.

 

My buddy has marinized 6.0 Vortecs in his boat. 15w40 is the spec. Truck 6.0 gets by with 5w30.

 

My other boat had twin 5.7 MPIs. Basically a 350 Vortec from the 1996-2000 trucks. Forget 5w30, they called for 25w40! And these were engines that ran at 160* and oil temps not much higher with freshwater heat exchangers.
 

Why so much viscosity? Because boat engines are LOADED all the time. It’s like driving up a hill that never crests while towing a trailer.

 

What’s my point? Marine engine manufacturers, especially 20 years ago could give two ****** about fuel consumption. Protecting the engine was the only concern, and viscosity WITH high zinc oils were and still are the way to get there. 

No, I’m not saying these same engine’s in the automotive applications are nearly as taxed all the time. But in certain situations their lives can absolutely be much harder. Towing heavy with lower viscosity, low zinc oils at higher temperatures is asking for trouble.

 

Match the viscosity to your use and climate. If you tow or race, step up. If you’re in the desert step up. Doing this within reason means all you lose is slight efficiency and you can gain engine life. 

 

FWIW my truck is tuned and pushing extra boost. I went up to 5w50 and have a wear rate 62% lower than the Blackstone average for the platform. Grumpy was proven right via my testing. There was no blind faith, just science.

[Atlas]

You know, or remember, those weekends/days off where you just needed to relax after one of "those" weeks?

 

Things were groovy until the wind kicked up yesterday. Not unusual for Fall in the Northwest. Trees are still heavy with turning leaves so it was just a matter of time before the power was going to blink out. No biggie, we're prepared.

 

Just as I was having that thought, standing in the kitchen, the power went off with a simultaneous loud BANG from inside the garage. Oh, hell. Now what?

 

We opened the door to the garage, didn't see anything. Unlatched the garage door to let some light in. **** me. Pieces of the wall box for our EV charger were scattered about. The car was charging (full 11kW) when, apparently, we had a surge with whatever caused the outage. The EV wall box sacrificed itself as it should - the explosion was likely capacitors inside vaporizing. The breaker for it had also tripped, as designed. But it gets better.

 

The main breaker for the house is...no longer in service. It can't be reset, feels like goo when you try to move it. BBQ'd. In a normal world where people have nice weekends, a main breaker is something you can buy at the hardware store.

 

This...is a 35 year-old proprietary breaker made for old Challenger/Zinsco panels. It's no longer made. "Refurbished" versions are about $500 online. It would be a few days until we could get one, but, in the spirit of eventually having a nice weekend, I don't want to put a refurbished breaker into a 35 year old panel with a dubious reputation. It's time to replace the main panel.

 

The good news? The car is fine, and its battery is at 70%. The wall charger (made by Chargepoint) will need to be replaced ($500), but first we will try to make a warranty claim. It probably shouldn't have exploded like it did, considering the installation is over-engineered for safety.

 

But now we get to run off a gas generator for the next several days while we try to find an electrician who can install a new panel, and while we research to find what is a good panel these days. Hoping to go from 200a to 400a in the process.

 

How's YOUR weekend?

[KARNUT]

4 minutes ago, Atlas said:

You know, or remember, those weekends/days off where you just needed to relax after one of "those" weeks?

 

Things were groovy until the wind kicked up yesterday. Not unusual for Fall in the Northwest. Trees are still heavy with turning leaves so it was just a matter of time before the power was going to blink out. No biggie, we're prepared.

 

Just as I was having that thought, standing in the kitchen, the power went off with a simultaneous loud BANG from inside the garage. Oh, hell. Now what?

 

We opened the door to the garage, didn't see anything. Unlatched the garage door to let some light in. **** me. Pieces of the wall box for our EV charger were scattered about. The car was charging (full 11kW) when, apparently, we had a surge with whatever caused the outage. The EV wall box sacrificed itself as it should - the explosion was likely capacitors inside vaporizing. The breaker for it had also tripped, as designed. But it gets better.

 

The main breaker for the house is...no longer in service. It can't be reset, feels like goo when you try to move it. BBQ'd. In a normal world where people have nice weekends, a main breaker is something you can buy at the hardware store.

 

This...is a 35 year-old proprietary breaker made for old Challenger/Zinsco panels. It's no longer made. "Refurbished" versions are about $500 online. It would be a few days until we could get one, but, in the spirit of eventually having a nice weekend, I don't want to put a refurbished breaker into a 35 year old panel with a dubious reputation. It's time to replace the main panel.

 

The good news? The car is fine, and its battery is at 70%. The wall charger (made by Chargepoint) will need to be replaced ($500), but first we will try to make a warranty claim. It probably shouldn't have exploded like it did, considering the installation is over-engineered for safety.

 

But now we get to run off a gas generator for the next several days while we try to find an electrician who can install a new panel, and while we research to find what is a good panel these days. Hoping to go from 200a to 400a in the process.

 

How's YOUR weekend?

Since you asked. We had dangerous very volatile storms come through in two waves. We had about 4 inches of needed rain. Our wonderful electric co-op that keeps the trees trimmed back. And our county engineers and workforce that diligently keep the drainage clear. The episode was no different than a summer shower. I imagine your generator could charge your car if needed? It’s a shame we live in such a backwards area. I hope your upper class better place to live as you put it. Well kidding aside. I wish you a speedy unstressed recovery. Because the bible says love your neighbor. And it’s Sunday.

[Atlas]

1 minute ago, KARNUT said:

Since you asked. We had dangerous very volatile storms come through in two waves. We had about 4 inches of needed rain. Our wonderful electric co-op that keeps the trees trimmed back. And our county engineers and workforce that diligently keep the drainage clear. The episode was no different than a summer shower. I imagine your generator could charge your car if needed? It’s a shame we live in such a backwards area. I hope your upper class better place to live as you put it. Well kidding aside. I wish you a speedy unstressed recovery. Because the bible says love your neighbor. And it’s Sunday.

 

The generator can charge the car, there's charging at the office, and a couple of fast chargers along the way. Those are not cheap though, you pay about $0.50/kWh for fast chargers (350kW) so we only use them when we have to. Still cheaper than gas, but, retail fast charge rates are steep. We also have ICE vehicles that can be driven.

 

Here's what we see a lot of after a typical wind event with 40-50mph gusts. It's kind of hard to keep dense evergreen forests trimmed back, and it's not feasible to run power underground in a lot of places because of the terrain. You can keep Texas. I prefer Sasquatch country.

 

 

 

 

 

And hey, thanks for the well wishes. Really appreciate the Sunday Christian vibes.

[KARNUT]

10 minutes ago, Atlas said:

 

The generator can charge the car, there's charging at the office, and a couple of fast chargers along the way. Those are not cheap though, you pay about $0.50/kWh for fast chargers (350kW) so we only use them when we have to. Still cheaper than gas, but, retail fast charge rates are steep. We also have ICE vehicles that can be driven.

 

Here's what we see a lot of after a typical wind event with 40-50mph gusts. It's kind of hard to keep dense evergreen forests trimmed back, and it's not feasible to run power underground in a lot of places because of the terrain. You can keep Texas. I prefer Sasquatch country.

 

 

 

 

 

And hey, thanks for the well wishes. Really appreciate the Sunday Christian vibes.

I like that area, most areas. What I like best about Texas you stay in the state and experience most everything the rest of the country has to offer. Good luck.

[customboss]

17 hours ago, OnTheReel said:

Look no further than the boat world which is mostly what I do for work and fun. I have a Honda BF150 outboard on my tin boat. It’s a 2.4L Accord engine turned on end. In the car it’ll take 0w20. Probably about 5 quarts. On a boat? 8 quarts of 10w30. And it runs MUCH cooler than a car engine. Heat and fire on boats = no good. So this thing will sit at 150 degrees all day in cold water. And thus, operating viscosity is several times higher than what even 10w30 would be in a car at higher oil temps.

 

My buddy has marinized 6.0 Vortecs in his boat. 15w40 is the spec. Truck 6.0 gets by with 5w30.

 

My other boat had twin 5.7 MPIs. Basically a 350 Vortec from the 1996-2000 trucks. Forget 5w30, they called for 25w40! And these were engines that ran at 160* and oil temps not much higher with freshwater heat exchangers.
 

Why so much viscosity? Because boat engines are LOADED all the time. It’s like driving up a hill that never crests while towing a trailer.

 

What’s my point? Marine engine manufacturers, especially 20 years ago could give two ****** about fuel consumption. Protecting the engine was the only concern, and viscosity WITH high zinc oils were and still are the way to get there. 

No, I’m not saying these same engine’s in the automotive applications are nearly as taxed all the time. But in certain situations their lives can absolutely be much harder. Towing heavy with lower viscosity, low zinc oils at higher temperatures is asking for trouble.

 

Match the viscosity to your use and climate. If you tow or race, step up. If you’re in the desert step up. Doing this within reason means all you lose is slight efficiency and you can gain engine life. 

 

FWIW my truck is tuned and pushing extra boost. I went up to 5w50 and have a wear rate 62% lower than the Blackstone average for the platform. Grumpy was proven right via my testing. There was no blind faith, just science.

Glad you are happy. Win win. Grumpy and science well we’ll let that slide! LOL

 

Keep in mind a marine engine that runs steady RPM vs constantly variable can employ straight or higher via oils with less viscous drag influence. 
Application and environment play at selecting optimized lubricants. 

Edited October 26, 2025 by customboss

[customboss]

3 hours ago, Atlas said:

You know, or remember, those weekends/days off where you just needed to relax after one of "those" weeks?

 

Things were groovy until the wind kicked up yesterday. Not unusual for Fall in the Northwest. Trees are still heavy with turning leaves so it was just a matter of time before the power was going to blink out. No biggie, we're prepared.

 

Just as I was having that thought, standing in the kitchen, the power went off with a simultaneous loud BANG from inside the garage. Oh, hell. Now what?

 

We opened the door to the garage, didn't see anything. Unlatched the garage door to let some light in. **** me. Pieces of the wall box for our EV charger were scattered about. The car was charging (full 11kW) when, apparently, we had a surge with whatever caused the outage. The EV wall box sacrificed itself as it should - the explosion was likely capacitors inside vaporizing. The breaker for it had also tripped, as designed. But it gets better.

 

The main breaker for the house is...no longer in service. It can't be reset, feels like goo when you try to move it. BBQ'd. In a normal world where people have nice weekends, a main breaker is something you can buy at the hardware store.

 

This...is a 35 year-old proprietary breaker made for old Challenger/Zinsco panels. It's no longer made. "Refurbished" versions are about $500 online. It would be a few days until we could get one, but, in the spirit of eventually having a nice weekend, I don't want to put a refurbished breaker into a 35 year old panel with a dubious reputation. It's time to replace the main panel.

 

The good news? The car is fine, and its battery is at 70%. The wall charger (made by Chargepoint) will need to be replaced ($500), but first we will try to make a warranty claim. It probably shouldn't have exploded like it did, considering the installation is over-engineered for safety.

 

But now we get to run off a gas generator for the next several days while we try to find an electrician who can install a new panel, and while we research to find what is a good panel these days. Hoping to go from 200a to 400a in the process.

 

How's YOUR weekend?

Glad sacrificial systems worked. No harm no foul move on and improve. We had 110-120 mph winds up here in southern CO 3 years ago and I had no damage after I went out into 110 mph winds to secure my garage metal roof that was lifting with wind flowing up under said panels.