Lifter/pushrod failure questions?

newdude · October 4, 2021

On 10/2/2021 at 11:14 AM, Adamace1 said:

I'm wondering if there is any common maintenance between the people who have lifter/pushrod failure.

1. Did any of you owners who had failures do your own oil change? As in you know what oil/ filter was put in, and you know it was at proper level. Or is it serviced away from you so you don't know what oil is put In it?

2. When did you change your oil? How many miles on oil? What percent of oil life was left?

3. Do you idle alot?

No rhyme or reason. The most recent AFM/DFM lifter failures are part of a known defective lifter production range of September 1, 2020 to March 4th 2021. They have almost all been low mileage failures, 8,000mi or less. The Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon crowd on the 2021+ Facebook group has many people reporting in at the 5,000-8,000mi mark.

Edited October 4, 2021 by newdude

TxTruckMan · October 4, 2021

Great. Mine's a Feb 2021 build. Guess I'm in the window. I'm gonna drive it like I stole it to see if I have a problem.

Grumpy Bear · October 4, 2021

7 hours ago, shakenfake said:

Source?

I highly doubt that considering we are seeing failures before end of warranty where the owner is often times still taking the truck in for maintenance. If someone had lifter failure and then deletes the system I can just about guarantee you that their oil change schedule doesn't change yet somehow they miraculously go farther with the non-AFM lifters. I think that if what Melling said is a cop out.

5 hours ago, shakenfake said:

lol?? I asked for source for your bogus claim the melling said it is an oiling related issue and that was your response.

You asked me no such thing.

(your #1 post quoted so you don't have to look for it)

What you've told me so far is you have no idea how the AFM system works or the statement I put in bold would not have been made. So once again I repeat:

6 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Give that some more thought.

Adamace1 · October 4, 2021

6 hours ago, newdude said:

No rhyme or reason. The most recent AFM/DFM lifter failures are part of a known defective lifter production range of September 1, 2020 to March 4th 2021. They have almost all been low mileage failures, 8,000mi or less. The Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon crowd on the 2021+ Facebook group has many people reporting in at the 5,000-8,000mi mark.

Yea my truck was built December 2020 so I'm in that window too. So far so good. 24,000 miles. All oil changes less than 5k miles, mobil one, acdelco pf63e filters.

I started this thread hoping to find maintenance from owners that had lifter/pushrod failures. Nobody with a failure has chimed in. I guess its not that common of issue. I'm also guessing nobody who does maintenance and is as particular as me will chime in here with a failure also. I'm wondering dealer maintenance.... cheap oil, wrong type of oil, low on oil, overfill on oil?

Edited October 5, 2021 by Adamace1

shakenfake · October 5, 2021

Grumpy you need glasses lmao look literally right above my paragraph. It says "Source?". Now either your deduction skills are lacking in your old age or you failed high school literature.

I understand what I said. Yes they go farther with a deleted system. But what I am saying is is that it is doubtful it is an OWNER oiling issue. And instead an ENGINEERING oiling issue.

Again I will quote my original post for you so you don't have to stress your wrinkle-less brain too much.

10 hours ago, shakenfake said:

Source?

Grumpy Bear · October 5, 2021

2 hours ago, shakenfake said:

Grumpy you need glasses lmao look literally right above my paragraph. It says "Source?". Now either your deduction skills are lacking in your old age or you failed high school literature.

I understand what I said. Yes they go farther with a deleted system. But what I am saying is is that it is doubtful it is an OWNER oiling issue. And instead an ENGINEERING oiling issue.

Again I will quote my original post for you so you don't have to stress your wrinkle-less brain too much.

Ops!

https://www.melling.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Melling-tech-bulletin-on-GM-LS-Deactivation-Lifter-Issues-3.1.18-1.pdf

Before you get your panties in a twist LS and Ecotec3 use the same lifters, guides and programing and fail for the same reasons.

Yes as newdude points out there was a six month run of bad lifters plaguing current production. That FACT only puts mud in the water.

Owner v engineering issues?

Continue to think about this.

Here's an example. The brake booster vacuum pumps on the K2** were recalled due to an 'engineering' lubrication issue. These pumps use the motor oil to create the seal that creates the vacuum. The replacement pumps had courser screens to prevent "varnish" plugging. Why did they plug? OWNERS oil maintenance. IF it were an actual ENGINEERING issue then the outcome would be the same for ALL regardless of there methods, means, choices made for oil maintenance. There would be NO luck of the draw. The failure would be a forgone conclusion.

My K2 has 150,000 miles on that so called defective pump and still puts up perfect vacuum and my lifters have never failed. What GM could have done was roll back the OCI....WAIT...they did do that!! Melling knows what's what and so does GM. Neither party can make anyone THINK about how they maintain.

Yes it stinks there was a run of honestly bad parts manufactured but this does not cover the entire number of failures than have been going on since GM introduce AFM. If a Grumpy old bear "in your old age" can keep an otherwise well engineered system alive for the entire length of an engineering "LIFETIME", then a guy as smart as you think you are should have ZERO complaints and frankly....nothing to say other than...CHANGE YOUR OIL.

Third time here sport:

If someone had lifter failure and then deletes the system I can just about guarantee you that their oil change schedule doesn't change yet somehow they miraculously go farther with the non-AFM lifters.

Let me say this slow for ya...

Unless......the......lifter......attempts...... to...... switch...... from...... active...... to...... inactive...... that...... lifter...... CAN...... NOT...... fail...... to...... SWITCH.

A delete does what?

It prevents the SWITCH.

A delete has NOTHING to do with oil maintenance.

:idiot:

You want an actual example of a GM engineering screw up? Ecotec 2.4 I4 oil control ring land oil return slots.

They WILL vanish and collapsed when GM maintenance is followed to the letter.

shakenfake · October 5, 2021

I figured that the LS and Ecotec would use the same lifters etc. I thought they would have a little different programming now though considering the system is somewhat different DFM vs AFM no? I mean I guess the programming is the same in how the lifter acts but maybe not how the collective lifters act in terms of when they do or do not shut down.

So again you are trying to argue something I agree with you on. I understand the AFM delete. I still am arguing against this being an owner oiling issue. This is an engineering issue again and it is stated quite clearly in the Melling document you provided. How is an owner supposed to prevent oil pressure bleed off when a lifter bore is getting marred up and leaking pressure lmao

I don't get how you don't see that. It's written so clearly in that document. I think we are arguing the same thing you just don't understand what I am trying to say. Let's just take AFM deletes out of the equation. I don't believe an owner's maintenance has an affect on if the engine does or does not have an AFM failure. An owner can change their oil every 5k miles and it will not have a single thing to do with the oil pressure bleed off in the lifter bore. Sorry those two things just don't correlate.

Btw just because something is engineered poorly does not mean it will affect everyone the same and it does not mean the outcome is always going to be the same. That is just the truth.

WeGone · October 5, 2021

So what this tells me is it has to have something to do with bad parts (lifters) is that some of these lifters have failed before the first oil change even as low as a few hundred miles to a few thousand miles. So that would rule out lack of proper maintenance in those cases.

I am also a believer in proper early maintenance, did my first oil change at 1500 miles will do all the others at 5000 mile intervals.

shakenfake · October 5, 2021

I was going to mention that as well is that some of the lifter failures you see can be earlier than the 5k mark or even a little later mark such as 15-20k. Playing devil's advocate though you could argue that if it is sub 5k miles then the tech that built the truck caused it haha

I'm just waiting on a GM electric truck that isn't the hummer cause that thing is ugly

KARNUT · October 5, 2021

14 minutes ago, shakenfake said:

I was going to mention that as well is that some of the lifter failures you see can be earlier than the 5k mark or even a little later mark such as 15-20k. Playing devil's advocate though you could argue that if it is sub 5k miles then the tech that built the truck caused it haha

I'm just waiting on a GM electric truck that isn't the hummer cause that thing is ugly

It was mentioned on the site awhile ago. That some trucks of a certain build date. We’re going through extended idle time at the dealership. If they didn’t fail, they were sold. As a newbie on this site. You probably don’t realize. The a few people on here believe. Frequent oil changes can even prevent manufacturers defects. They’ll hit you with paper. Not necessarily with personal experience. They exclaim. The Frankenstein engine (cylinder deactivation) is GMs gift to the world. But they(GM) don’t have a clue to oil change intervals. Have fun with them.

shakenfake · October 5, 2021

Why do you use so many periods took me a while to understand what you were saying and I'm still confused!

I've been on the boards long enough, and around old people long enough, to know that is the general pushback you get.

KARNUT · October 5, 2021

28 minutes ago, shakenfake said:

Why do you use so many periods took me a while to understand what you were saying and I'm still confused!

I've been on the boards long enough, and around old people long enough, to know that is the general pushback you get.

I’ll have to ponder your first statement being you mentioned old people usually means your young and maybe know everything? Excuse me for trying to give you a heads up. Of course as experienced as you may be and young, a unique thing. You completely missed the joke. Oh well I tried.

shakenfake · October 5, 2021

Haha no I beg to differ, what I mean by that is the older generation is normally a bit reluctant to change. Hence why you still have a lot of guys doing 3k mile oil changes or even 5k mile oil changes. Tech nowadays is good enough to where you really don't need to do those things. Electric vehicles is another one, cell phones too.

I was agreeing with you. just by the way. I just meant I've been on here long enough that I know the things you are talking about and I agree with you.

Text is not the best medium.

KARNUT · October 5, 2021

22 minutes ago, shakenfake said:

Haha no I beg to differ, what I mean by that is the older generation is normally a bit reluctant to change. Hence why you still have a lot of guys doing 3k mile oil changes or even 5k mile oil changes. Tech nowadays is good enough to where you really don't need to do those things. Electric vehicles is another one, cell phones too.

I was agreeing with you. just by the way. I just meant I've been on here long enough that I know the things you are talking about and I agree with you.

Text is not the best medium.

I’m older and love reasonable changes. Being a retired business owner we (family business) usually were first with changes. I was doing 25K oil changes in the 90s. We were one of the first Amsoil dealers. I’d admit I hate cylinder deactivation, too many moving parts. The bang for the buck isn’t there. I had one tested it on and off with no noticeable changes at 72 mph. Electric cars I can dig it. Mostly for the performance as a hybrid. Maybe later when they can go 500 miles on a charge, AC on, I can go full electric. Now even Ford has gone cylinder deactivation and Toyota is dropping the V-8. Times a changing. If I had to buy new I’d go turbo before cylinder deactivation. Otherwise my Avalanche is a keeper.

shakenfake · October 5, 2021

The new Ford Lightning should be able to go 400+. That 300 mile rating is with 1k in the bed. It is a little underrated based on some of the videos I've seen.