Add engine oil!!!

Truston Gunter · March 6, 2023

My question is for blaineBug, on your recent trip, were you towing or traveling unladen? My experience with oil consumption is directly related to fuel consumed.

lsttype · March 7, 2023

Hello, im new to the 6.6 gasser but ive had 5.3s with excellent results. They never used or leaked any oil. Its hard to understand why a more modern design would use oil. I have always used Mobile one for my G.M motors. Is this still good for the 6.6?

I ditched my ram diesel with the Cummins to get away from all the diesel woes and yet here I am. LOL

Truston Gunter · March 7, 2023

I've owned a '99,'07 and a '15 all with the 5.3L. They all used oil to some extent. Never did heavy hauling (my heavy haul may be your light haul) with any of those trucks like I'm doing now with this truck. Like I said in my first post, I'm not overly concerned but I still enjoy hearing and understanding other people's knowledge and experience. I too have always used Mobile 1 oil's.

Pryme · March 7, 2023

5 hours ago, lsttype said:

Hello, im new to the 6.6 gasser but ive had 5.3s with excellent results. They never used or leaked any oil. Its hard to understand why a more modern design would use oil. I have always used Mobile one for my G.M motors. Is this still good for the 6.6?

I ditched my ram diesel with the Cummins to get away from all the diesel woes and yet here I am. LOL

Mine hasn’t used any oil. I ran M1 my first oil change and super tech synthetic is in there now. No discernible difference between the two. Both 5w30 and dexos certified.

Jettech1 · April 14, 2023

7150 miles on the truck/ 4650 on the oil of which is 5W-30 GM full synthetic. 0 usage. I'm going to have it changed in 350 miles.

Grumpy Bear · April 14, 2023

1 hour ago, Jettech1 said:

7150 miles on the truck/ 4650 on the oil of which is 5W-30 GM full synthetic. 0 usage. I'm going to have it changed in 350 miles.

As good as that feels right now that same service and oil choice is setting a pattern that may have a different result when you add 150K to that number. Maybe that matters to you and maybe it doesn't. :dunno:

Point is short term results don't guarantee long term goals. Wear and the damage it precipitates is like watching paint dry. GM is a master at getting it JUST to the goal. Okay, they all are.

Jettech1 · April 14, 2023

24 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

As good as that feels right now that same service and oil choice is setting a pattern that may have a different result when you add 150K to that number. Maybe that matters to you and maybe it doesn't.

Point is short term results don't guarantee long term goals. Wear and the damage it precipitates is like watching paint dry. GM is a master at getting it JUST to the goal. Okay, they all are.

That's an excellent point you make. But I do think 5k OCI's are fairly conservative these days especially using full synthetic. The onboard computer still says I have 30% oil life remaining of which I could care less about that number. I'm old enough I guess to not want to ever lay under another vehicle and do it myself, so why not let GM do it and tire rotation for 75 bucks. Super cheap and I have records. This is kind of a first for me because I always did all the maintenance on my vehicles but I think I'll be ok. I always used Mobil 1 but hey, I don't think they'll miss my purchases of their oil...lol...

Edit: These engines seem to be very easy on the oil too. I used a white lint free cloth as always to check it and it has this nice tan color. Looks amazing actually but I know, without doing an oil sample I really don't know the actual condition of it, but coming off the dipstick, wow....looks like new oil. So I think I'm going to stick with GM oil for now.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Jettech1

Grumpy Bear · April 14, 2023

24 minutes ago, Jettech1 said:

That's an excellent point you make...........................

I have always been conservative on OCI lengths. For the most part that has served me well. But my observations have noted a disturbing decline in not just oil quality over the last decade but build quality that have cost me. Pepper is starting to use a bit. Book interval on that motor is 7,500 but it has never seen more than 5K. Apparently that is still too long. For various reasons I deviated from my bread-and-butter RLHP and it's biting me on one end while OEM 'I don't care' engineering takes a bite from the other.

The industry led people to believe that an oils detergency meant it could CLEAN a motor and the fact is, it can't. Detergent, D'ho! It just slows the rate it gets dirty.

Oil control demands clean ring lands and sealed faces and minimize wear rates. EPA demands have continued to lower detergent/dispersant type and volume and the replacements, on average, are less effective. Some sources disagree but experience and observation tell a different story. Better almost always means more expensive and bean counters like to charge but not deliver. It increases margins. Now, this week in fact, the EPA has set a bar that is in effect unobtainable to remove the ICE choice and FORCE electrification. This will force 100 years of infrastructure to happen in a decade or less. Sound familiar? 1970's EGR? How did that work out for motor life?

Real research came to an end decades ago replaced by focus groups and internet 'likes'. The oil industry has zero incentive to propel an industry that is to being legislated out of existence.

There are only a few companies still focused on PCMO's that have enough solvency left in them to keep things clean enough to seal the way they should, and the EPA is trying its best to kill their add packs. Most are just trying to slow it enough you won't mind or notice. Some just couldn't care less. They don't make products. They make money and only if it makes votes.

:rant:

Thanks for the ear.

Jettech1 · April 14, 2023

3 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I have always been conservative on OCI lengths. For the most part that has served me well. But my observations have noted a disturbing decline in not just oil quality over the last decade but build quality that have cost me. Pepper is starting to use a bit. Book interval on that motor is 7,500 but it has never seen more than 5K. Apparently that is still too long. For various reasons I deviated from my bread-and-butter RLHP and it's biting me on one end while OEM 'I don't care' engineering takes a bite from the other.

The industry led people to believe that an oils detergency meant it could CLEAN a motor and the fact is, it can't. Detergent, D'ho! It just slows the rate it gets dirty.

Oil control demands clean ring lands and sealed faces and minimize wear rates. EPA demands have continued to lower detergent/dispersant type and volume and the replacements, on average, are less effective. Some sources disagree but experience and observation tell a different story. Better almost always means more expensive and bean counters like to charge but not deliver. It increases margins. Now, this week in fact, the EPA has set a bar that is in effect unobtainable to remove the ICE choice and FORCE electrification. This will force 100 years of infrastructure to happen in a decade or less. Sound familiar? 1970's EGR? How did that work out for motor life?

Real research came to an end decades ago replaced by focus groups and internet 'likes'. The oil industry has zero incentive to propel an industry that is to being legislated out of existence.

There are only a few companies still focused on PCMO's that have enough solvency left in them to keep things clean enough to seal the way they should, and the EPA is trying its best to kill their add packs. Most are just trying to slow it enough you won't mind or notice. Some just couldn't care less. They don't make products. They make money and only if it makes votes.

Thanks for the ear.

You are spot on!! I couldn't have said any of that better. Thank you for your knowledge sir! I always appreciate it.

DuckBoi · April 24, 2023

On 4/13/2023 at 8:06 PM, Jettech1 said:

That's an excellent point you make. But I do think 5k OCI's are fairly conservative these days especially using full synthetic. The onboard computer still says I have 30% oil life remaining of which I could care less about that number. I'm old enough I guess to not want to ever lay under another vehicle and do it myself, so why not let GM do it and tire rotation for 75 bucks. Super cheap and I have records. This is kind of a first for me because I always did all the maintenance on my vehicles but I think I'll be ok. I always used Mobil 1 but hey, I don't think they'll miss my purchases of their oil...lol...

Edit: These engines seem to be very easy on the oil too. I used a white lint free cloth as always to check it and it has this nice tan color. Looks amazing actually but I know, without doing an oil sample I really don't know the actual condition of it, but coming off the dipstick, wow....looks like new oil. So I think I'm going to stick with GM oil for now.

Dealer overfilled my oil by inch and a half, maybe two inches on the dipstick and overtightened the crap out of my drain plug and oil filter which was the result of the issues i was having on my other post. Changed the oil myself and put the right amount of oil in and the weird sounds and issues all went away immediately on start up. I dont trust dealers or any shops to touch my vehicles. Id rather do it myself and know its done right than to pay someone to really mess up my stuff, especially dealers after this experience. They take too long too, i hate waiting half a day just for an oil change done wrong.

diyer2 · April 24, 2023

I have had vehicles that had 150K - 240k miles. They all started using oil after the mileage got high. Some more than others. If my memory is correct the worst was my 93 Silvy 1500 V8 350. Worst usage was when towing and keep in mind this is mountain terrain.

Towing the boat to Lake Powell when it had over 200K on it used 1/4 - 1/2 a quart each way, 470 miles. 10-12 mpg.

My 12 uses a little oil after it gets dirty enough. 74k. on it.

KARNUT · April 24, 2023

I’ve only had two non rebuilt engines use oil. They did from new. My 3 daily drivers all have over 120K. One over 180K. Not a drop of oil used. All different brands, all different oils. In my pulling heavy days, no oil users. I’m probably considered an aggressive driver. I wouldn’t consider oil usage normal under any circumstances. The two oil users 4.6-5.7 went to 130K with me. Never anymore than 1qt every 2500 miles from new.

Grumpy Bear · April 24, 2023

I had to go back and see what I've already posted to this thread so as to not repeat myself.

There are many reasons a motor may be using oil. Some are macro and some are micro. Some are mechanical and some are chemical. Some are statistically probable, and some are statistical aberrations. Not every reason has a chemical fix just as not all seemingly mechanical issue don't. Some are even situational. A motor may not use any oil between OCI's day to day and yet, use while heavy towing/hauling/high rpm & load use.

Karnut has had more vehicles over his lifetime than most of us. His business relied on them, so his sample pool is quite large and yet small compared to the pool of vehicles, drivers' and conditions possible over his lifetime. Thing is that his sample pool is large enough to condition a response and leverage a pretty solid set of opinions. He makes a pretty solid one early in his last post.

4 hours ago, KARNUT said:

I’ve only had two non rebuilt engines use oil. They did from new.

I bought a new vehicle in 1977 that used oil from the get. A quart in 500 miles. At about 4K the dealer gave in and took the motor down for a look. Second ring, the oil scraper/second compression ring on every piston was installed upside down. Not good in a motor that uses taper faced reverse twist rings. I had another where the valve seals were never installed, and I have one now with 50K on the clock with a guide issue the leaks enough oil to foul a plug in about 5K miles. Factory acknowledged the issue but as the total usage is very low they won't fix it on their dime. Factories are not infallible, and they don't like to admit that or care of it.

Grumpy Bear · April 25, 2023

Plug the holes behind the oil control ring and soon the oil ring is also fouled and now your motor uses oil. GM has made this really easy to do. Very narrow oil ring. About half the required drain holes in the land and then suggesting extended oil drain intervals. And yes, with some oils even 5K will do this if the operating conditions are harsh enough.

The second ring is an oil scraper first and back up compression ring second. That oil has to go somewhere and somewhere is supposed to be exiting the piston via the drain back holes from oil captured between the ring rails. Flood that second ring and past it is the only way left to go.

Jasper Engines are rebuilt with a wider higher tension rings and 300% more drain area and a recommendation to ignore GM's OLM. But even the stock rings can work IF these drains don't plug and for that to be a reality the OCI needs to be short and the oil solvency high. IMHO.

When GM does a warranty set of new pistons and rings what they are doing is clearing those holes and giving that motor an excellent chance of getting past the remaining warranty. But it really isn't a fix.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Grumpy Bear
additional content

the8rotor · May 2, 2023

My 2021 GMC 2500hd had 30k miles on her when I traded her in a couple of weeks ago for my '24. Never used a drop of oil the whole time. I changed my oil depending on usage and towing, but averaged 3500 miles between changes. Cheap insurance in my book to change out the oil.