LT Trail Boss - Poor Value?

[KARNUT]

19 minutes ago, 4banger said:

the engineers in video said 5.3 is 160 lbs heavier, also, two headers, two cats, dual exhaust? the 4 banger has one of everything, it would be hard pressed to outweigh a typical modern aluminum 3.5 v6, yup...no lifters, one head, one string of valves, lighter trans, it's less of everything to support it and you feel it on the nose and in handling overall and my assessment of the 6.2 handling as a wallowing fat pig compared is still accurate, I spent time in both, 3 weeks with the pork chop knowing I was getting the turbo, I paid extra attention to log the differences, anyone else here do the same?, I'll take that W for no lifters, and another for boost and having no power losses due to elevation, another W for having peak torque 1100 rpm less...and another for having way more peak torque lol...can you solve for the lifter stuff on the 5.3? sounds like it...still a good motor, I've got a gazelle that can pull stumps lol and one of only 2 engines the gm engineers admitted to not being able to kill in trying to kill them in testing...

People buy vehicles because they like them. Very few buy just what they need. Otherwise most people would drive a minivan. My minivan is fast hauls 8 people carries almost anything. And gets great gas mileage. It wouldn’t be my only vehicle, I wouldn’t be able to stand it. If I had to choose only one out of my 4 it would be my avalanche. It gets terrible gas mileage handles bad on windy days. Everything works and the V-8 rumbling in the background is magic. My wife’s Genesis is more refined and faster than my old trailblazer ss. Forget about gas mileage. I’m taking the trailblazer. The 4 banger may be the future. But just like V-8 cylinder deactivation I’m not having it. I’m old and stubborn. Some things I just can’t do. A 4clinder in a full sized truck is one of them.

[4banger]

16 hours ago, KARNUT said:

People buy vehicles because they like them. Very few buy just what they need. Otherwise most people would drive a minivan. My minivan is fast hauls 8 people carries almost anything. And gets great gas mileage. It wouldn’t be my only vehicle, I wouldn’t be able to stand it. If I had to choose only one out of my 4 it would be my avalanche. It gets terrible gas mileage handles bad on windy days. Everything works and the V-8 rumbling in the background is magic. My wife’s Genesis is more refined and faster than my old trailblazer ss. Forget about gas mileage. I’m taking the trailblazer. The 4 banger may be the future. But just like V-8 cylinder deactivation I’m not having it. I’m old and stubborn. Some things I just can’t do. A 4clinder in a full sized truck is one of them.

reasonable, remember though the puny inline-6 5.9 cummins 12v received a lot of the same love from the big block crowd, sure earned it's stripes though, because it's one heckuva formula for a truck engine

 

something else you'll love then is the 4 can go down to 2 cylinders lol, much appreciated when idling around sites all day at -40 and you don't need gas for the week, when the rental hemi that was with me needed fuel every 2 days....I didn't know about that benefit until witnessed first hand, it's a smart option, that gets a lot of ignorant bashing because it's a 4-cylinder, when the gm engineers set out to design a new 'truck' engine around a turbo they let the formula and displacement land where it may, they didn't choose a displacement, the power levels they wanted for half ton platform chose the displacement for them

 

not sure if it was in 2 cylinder mode or not but have to assume a bunch of it was, you have to throw in neutral and put park brake on to idle longer than 10 minutes but not a huge deal for those days, also anytime you wanna drop out of that mode and just run on all 4 just throw it in tow/haul mode, you also drop 8th gear out of the picture too from recollection

 

anyway, clean sheet truck engine design based around the high tech dual volute turbo they wanted to use ended up being a long stroke big jug inline...they probably looked at 3.0 and 6 cylinders but would have been little short stroke and make too much hp not enough torque for 'truck' application...

 

look at the combined work/speed of work (torque/hp) totals from all these gm half tones, 5.3 383+355 = 738, 3.0 460+277 = 737, 2.7 430+310 = 740....all three of them land within 0.4% of each other. That's no accident. So the 2.7 displacement is no accident...those are the power levels they want for majority of half ton platform, the 6.2 is the outlier and hot rod option...at least until about 4000' elevation. The turbo motors lose no noticeable power all over this continent.  

 

And yes the 3.0 may be a little higher now?, was just giving the comparison as of 2022 refresh timing. Both turbo motors can take more tunes down the road, they built them strong and future ready. Gotta market things incrementally and get you excited every few years for a few more ponies.

 

it's not a 4-banger in the old economy car gutless naturally aspirated stigmas...most of us show our age when we scoff an say 'you can't put a 4-banger in a half ton truck'....you can, and it was a brilliant move by gm to build a modern turbo engine and land on this formula to do it, it was asking what will be the best design for this turbo for truck duty that landed the configuration and the displacement was what it had to be for the power levels they were after, the engineers explain that if you watch the videos where they tell about this engine

 

and I like my 4 banger, same way the 5.9 cummins guys liked their little turbo motors back in the day also

 

maybe this is a useful perspective?...since you replace a bank of cylinders with a turbo, just imagine removing the turbo for a bank of cylinders and double the displacement...5.4 litres it would be, it has bigger jugs than the 5.3, 682cc vs 666 cc...so no surprise, it makes more work unaffected by elevations and lower in rpms, long stroke for the win for trucks...if you haven't tried one, maybe try one before ruling things out like a Fudd lol...relax, in jest, I'm a total Fudd about a lot of things, I think my old cummins love is why I get this 4 banger so much, same formula but on gas and for a half ton

Edited January 19, 2024 by 4banger

[KARNUT]

55 minutes ago, 4banger said:

reasonable, remember though the puny inline-6 5.9 cummins 12v received a lot of the same love from the big block crowd, sure earned it's stripes though, because it's one heckuva formula for a truck engine

 

something else you'll love then is the 4 can go down to 2 cylinders lol, much appreciated when idling around sites all day at -40 and you don't need gas for the week, when the rental hemi that was with me needed fuel every 2 days....I didn't know about that benefit until witnessed first hand, it's a smart option, that gets a lot of ignorant bashing because it's a 4-cylinder, when the gm engineers set out to design a new 'truck' engine around a turbo they let the formula and displacement land where it may, they didn't choose a displacement, the power levels they wanted for half ton platform chose the displacement for them

 

not sure if it was in 2 cylinder mode or not but have to assume a bunch of it was, you have to throw in neutral and put park brake on to idle longer than 10 minutes but not a huge deal for those days, also anytime you wanna drop out of that mode and just run on all 4 just throw it in tow/haul mode, you also drop 8th gear out of the picture too from recollection

 

anyway, clean sheet truck engine design based around the high tech dual volute turbo they wanted to use ended up being a long stroke big jug inline...they probably looked at 3.0 and 6 cylinders but would have been little short stroke and make too much hp not enough torque for 'truck' application...

 

look at the combined work/speed of work (torque/hp) totals from all these gm half tones, 5.3 383+355 = 738, 3.0 460+277 = 737, 2.7 430+310 = 740....all three of them land within 0.4% of each other. That's no accident. So the 2.7 displacement is no accident...those are the power levels they want for majority of half ton platform, the 6.2 is the outlier and hot rod option...at least until about 4000' elevation. The turbo motors lose no noticeable power all over this continent.  

 

And yes the 3.0 may be a little higher now?, was just giving the comparison as of 2022 refresh timing. Both turbo motors can take more tunes down the road, they built them strong and future ready. Gotta market things incrementally and get you excited every few years for a few more ponies.

 

it's not a 4-banger in the old economy car gutless naturally aspirated stigmas...most of us show our age when we scoff an say 'you can't put a 4-banger in a half ton truck'....you can, and it was a brilliant move by gm to build a modern turbo engine and land on this formula to do it, it was asking what will be the best design for this turbo for truck duty that landed the configuration and the displacement was what it had to be for the power levels they were after, the engineers explain that if you watch the videos where they tell about this engine

 

and I like my 4 banger, same way the 5.9 cummins guys liked their little turbo motors back in the day also

 

maybe this is a useful perspective?...since you replace a bank of cylinders with a turbo, just imagine removing the turbo for a bank of cylinders and double the displacement...5.4 litres it would be, it has bigger jugs than the 5.3, 682cc vs 666 cc...so no surprise, it makes more work unaffected by elevations and lower in rpms, long stroke for the win for trucks...if you haven't tried one, maybe try one before ruling things out like a Fudd lol...relax, in jest, I'm a total Fudd about a lot of things, I think my old cummins love is why I get this 4 banger so much, same formula but on gas and for a half ton

I don’t doubt anything you say. I had several of the Cummins diesel’s starting in 1991. I pulled 25K combination with it. Our business put over 300K miles on it. We had 8 total. I turned up the injection pump and governor speed on that one. My brother put banks 6 gun on his along with their exhaust. My nephew in the 2000s had a daily 11 second diesel Ram. In between we had a few V-10s. I’m an older old school love my V-8 sounding Avalanche. It’s the slowest of my 4. Behind the Odyssey, Genesis and the Integra Type R. Two V-6s and a 4banger. The four banger is the most fun especially at 8500 RPMs. It sounds like a cat get crushed by a steam roller at full song. But cruising at 72 mph all want to hear is the sweet V8 sound. At full V8. I know I’m a dying breed. Hanging on by a thread.

[4banger]

5 hours ago, KARNUT said:

I don’t doubt anything you say. I had several of the Cummins diesel’s starting in 1991. I pulled 25K combination with it. Our business put over 300K miles on it. We had 8 total. I turned up the injection pump and governor speed on that one. My brother put banks 6 gun on his along with their exhaust. My nephew in the 2000s had a daily 11 second diesel Ram. In between we had a few V-10s. I’m an older old school love my V-8 sounding Avalanche. It’s the slowest of my 4. Behind the Odyssey, Genesis and the Integra Type R. Two V-6s and a 4banger. The four banger is the most fun especially at 8500 RPMs. It sounds like a cat get crushed by a steam roller at full song. But cruising at 72 mph all want to hear is the sweet V8 sound. At full V8. I know I’m a dying breed. Hanging on by a thread.

lol I drove some for work and my old man had a 91 srw 3500 4x stick with the banks power pack and 4:10's, camper, 4-horses to the mountains, those cummins will put you to sleep on the highway as good as anything, such a great highway sound...alrighty then, all I was trying to do was get all the perspective possible around 'value' in here and dispel any misinformation, as there's never a full picture around newer things, people as a larger whole move slow to the understandings

[Dunn]

On 1/11/2024 at 11:04 AM, lennybg said:

OR it could be that the TB owner found a truck that looked like he wanted and doesn't have the time nor the care to do all the work himself.

it isnt, they have no idea usually......if they did they wouldnt do it, or buy a ZR2

[brianf60]

It seems like you may be over thinking this one. I have never ordered a vehicle with the specs I wanted. I buy off the lot. Usually that means some give and take. 
I bought a TB last summer because it was there and really liked it. I went to buy Sierra Elevation to replace one lost in a wrench. The dealer had ordered the TB for someone else and the deal feel through Saturday morning ( sounds like financing feel through). The salesman was very motivated to sell it so i walked away with TB for $1,100 more than insurance paid out on the Elevation. 
 

Could I have found a ZR2? Maybe. 
Could I have bought a lower trim truck and did the mods? Sure. But why? So I could feel like I did it myself?