Oil catch can?

Silverado-Hareek · January 21, 2016

I guess I'm not sure what the "full" service is compared to this one which is what I was thinking I wanted and asked the dealer about:

BG Fuel/Air Induction Service

The BG Fuel/Air Induction Service covers gasoline fuel systems.

Service interval: Within 15,000 miles/25,000 km of the previous service

Maximum reimbursement: Plan 1: $4,000 US; Plan 2: $2,000 US

https://www.bgprod.com/programs/lifetime-bg-protection-plan/

Sounds like with only 20k miles I'd quality for the $4000 warranty.

Do you mind explaining what the "full" service is you mentioned as I am not sure from reading their website.

Thanks.

There's 3 different products as I remember it. One get's fed through your throttle body like seafoam but more potent and dispensed through a special tank system with a pressure gauge. Another can get's fed through your fuel system starting at the fuel tank. And I forget what the 3rd product is and how it's installed...maybe through the intake as well. I'm due for another one in about 3,000 miles I'll ask my mechanic to explain it again. There are a ton of youtube videos detailing the process as well. Here's the promo video BG put together:

Silverado-Hareek · January 21, 2016

It looks like 2 of the products go through the intake and 1 goes through the fuel system:

mjj · January 21, 2016

So after watching a handful of videos I've come up with this.

BG's GDI Service:

Which involves doing this:

Seems pretty involved.

Silverado-Hareek is this the service you are having done? I can see this costing $350 if they are pulling the intake off to do the cleaning on each valve.

GDI Tech · January 21, 2016

Does anyone know how full it would be before it starts sucking thru? Mine was about 1 inch before the threads when i last emptied. Im checking it every couple days now it's filling so fast.

OK, again, I spent over a half hour typing responses to all of these in great detail and this stupid site erases it all when I click post reply. What do we have to do to not experience this???? This is crazt=y!

Thank you for the site link. I'll read into this more. My dealer does it so I think I'll try to get it done this Friday during my already scheduled free oil change. I'm at almost 20k miles. FYI, not sure if price is same at all places but $99 at dealer.

I don't know if I should be happy it's catching this much or sad my truck is probably ingesting this gunk in the gulp fulls. This is from 3 days and 205 miles of driving in teens to twenties temps. Looks like I'll have to be diligent about emptying daily. At this rate I honestly can't see the E2-X being a big advantage capacity wise. From Elite's website the original can holds 8oz, the 2nd gen 11oz, and the E2-X 12oz. It'd still be full by weeks end especially if it actually catches more. So my dilemma, keep my 8oz can and get BG service done at the 15k intervals at $99 a pop. 3 times will pay for an E2-X so just pony up now for it. Does using the E2-X negate the need for the BG service all together? That still will not solve this cold weather issue though. I suppose ditch the can during the winter months or all together and keep up on the BG cleanings. It'd be hard to actually ditch the can I think since I've had first hand experience what the build up can do over 100k miles on our previous Acadia. I don't wanna go thru that expensive mess again. Is there anyone who lives North and who has the E2-X able to chime in here on how quickly it's filling up? Elite if you are listening what do you suggest for us in Northern states or Canada to do? Right now I'm forced to empty the can more oftern than I fill up with gas. Its not practical. A great functional piece of hardware but just not practical in cold climates.

mjj - I would think the E2X would be easier to empty since it has a ball valve and could run a hose from it to a place you can have some thing to drain it into easily. If you're filling an 8oz can in 3 days math would say you'd fill a 12 oz in 4-5 days. I have the E2X but it's not as cold here so can't say how quickly it will fill up. Again I think the ball valve would make it easier/quicker. One thought I had was run the hose to a milk or gallon jug secured somewhere and you could just open the hood, turn the valve to let it drain, turn the valve and be done until the jug fills up.

Regarding the BG service; They (GDI Tech) say the E2X has been tested to catch 95-98% of the blow by. With that little amount I plan to spend $15 on CRC Valve cleaner every 10k miles (before an oil change) just to clean the valves up a little. I feel that the E2X will keep enough off the valves that no large deposits will build up and concern me when I use the cleaner (scratching the cylinder walls).

What happened to your Acadia? I just manually cleaned my wife's Acadia's valves at 30k and put an E2X can on. Hope to have both vehicles for a long time since we don't put many miles on them.

I would recommend manually cleaning the valves if you have 25-30k mile on your truck without a catch can and not do the BG service (can after manual cleaning but what's the point if they are clean) because those deposits have to go somewhere and I feel it will do some type of damage. Like I said my plan is to use a quality catch can and use CRC (cheap) just to clean them up once a year or so. Doing the cleaning every 10-15k miles with a quality catch can I don't feel that enough buildup will be one the valves to do any damage.

I'm no expert but after reading a lot on the topic that's my plan.

Good luck.

So after watching a handful of videos I've come up with this.

BG's GDI Service:

Which involves doing this:

Seems pretty involved.

Silverado-Hareek is this the service you are having done? I can see this costing $350 if they are pulling the intake off to do the cleaning on each valve.

SkiDooNick700 · January 21, 2016

haha GDI Tech do a Copy all text before submitting just in case! That way you can just paste it back in to re-submit!

GDI Tech · January 21, 2016

Does anyone know how full it would be before it starts sucking thru? Mine was about 1 inch before the threads when i last emptied. Im checking it every couple days now it's filling so fast.

Choosing the system that is best for you is difficult as most will look at the price, and then purchase a less expensive model not the best for your application. Here is my rule.

Base Elite is ONLY to use on older port injection engines.

E2 is larger, and is also only for port injection engines, but adds a second evacuation outlet. The E2-X is proper for GDI engines, but only on climates that do not get hard freezes. For Northeren climates, always ahoose the E2-X Ultra. The E2-X standard is 20 oz capacity, and at app 10 oz's the effectiveness stats to degrade allowing some pull through. The Ultra is 40 oz capacity, and will hold close to 20 oz's before needing to be emptied (always empty after engine has been running at full warm temp, and engine off). Be sure not to confuse the E2 with the E2-X. Also, if you place a jug or jar under the drain hose ( if you add one) it is easy to drain with the drain valve. Below 45-50*F the added water and un burnt fuel from the cold start enrichment (choke function) and below freezing this increases greatly. Remember, what you are catching was accumulating in your crankcase and engine oil as well as being ingested causing the valve coking.

mjj, on 20 Jan 2016 - 11:51 AM, said:

Thank you for the site link. I'll read into this more. My dealer does it so I think I'll try to get it done this Friday during my already scheduled free oil change. I'm at almost 20k miles. FYI, not sure if price is same at all places but $99 at dealer.

$99 is a good price, but make SURE you do not use an upper induction cleaning if you have more than say 15k miles on the engine already. If you do, you may cause damage as the hard baked on crystalline deposits are very abrasive and hard, similar to sand. And when you break these loose, the smaller particles some get forced between the piston and cylinder wall and cause scouring (scratches). This is why the warranties offered are low $ amounts and there are a ton of conditions to be met to ever collect on one. If you have over 15k miles on, then only a manual cleaning will get them clean w/out resulting some damage. I can guide anyone step by step that is handy with tools on how to perform this like the Acadia mentioned.

mjj, on 20 Jan 2016 - 8:49 PM, said:

I don't know if I should be happy it's catching this much or sad my truck is probably ingesting this gunk in the gulp fulls. This is from 3 days and 205 miles of driving in teens to twenties temps. Looks like I'll have to be diligent about emptying daily. At this rate I honestly can't see the E2-X being a big advantage capacity wise. From Elite's website the original can holds 8oz, the 2nd gen 11oz, and the E2-X 12oz. It'd still be full by weeks end especially if it actually catches more. So my dilemma, keep my 8oz can and get BG service done at the 15k intervals at $99 a pop. 3 times will pay for an E2-X so just pony up now for it. Does using the E2-X negate the need for the BG service all together? That still will not solve this cold weather issue though. I suppose ditch the can during the winter months or all together and keep up on the BG cleanings. It'd be hard to actually ditch the can I think since I've had first hand experience what the build up can do over 100k miles on our previous Acadia. I don't wanna go thru that expensive mess again. Is there anyone who lives North and who has the E2-X able to chime in here on how quickly it's filling up? Elite if you are listening what do you suggest for us in Northern states or Canada to do? Right now I'm forced to empty the can more oftern than I fill up with gas. Its not practical. A great functional piece of hardware but just not practical in cold climates.

Remember, the cleaning will cause some scouring to the cylinders and pistons if there is any established hard deposits. These may be minor, but will occur and every time you do this more occurs.

Always choose the E2-X Ultra in cold climates. A sales person will always want to sell you what you ask for based on the price you want to spend. The price is small when you look at fuel savings and engine longevity. If you rely on the cleanings, then in between you still have the abrasive deposits that are drawn into the valve guides with every open and close cycle of the valve, and the softer brass alloy guide will wear rapidly.

CH15GMC, on 20 Jan 2016 - 10:20 PM, said:

mjj - I would think the E2X would be easier to empty since it has a ball valve and could run a hose from it to a place you can have some thing to drain it into easily. If you're filling an 8oz can in 3 days math would say you'd fill a 12 oz in 4-5 days. I have the E2X but it's not as cold here so can't say how quickly it will fill up. Again I think the ball valve would make it easier/quicker. One thought I had was run the hose to a milk or gallon jug secured somewhere and you could just open the hood, turn the valve to let it drain, turn the valve and be done until the jug fills up.

Regarding the BG service; They (GDI Tech) say the E2X has been tested to catch 95-98% of the blow by. With that little amount I plan to spend $15 on CRC Valve cleaner every 10k miles (before an oil change) just to clean the valves up a little. I feel that the E2X will keep enough off the valves that no large deposits will build up and concern me when I use the cleaner (scratching the cylinder walls).

What happened to your Acadia? I just manually cleaned my wife's Acadia's valves at 30k and put an E2X can on. Hope to have both vehicles for a long time since we don't put many miles on them.

I would recommend manually cleaning the valves if you have 25-30k mile on your truck without a catch can and not do the BG service (can after manual cleaning but what's the point if they are clean) because those deposits have to go somewhere and I feel it will do some type of damage. Like I said my plan is to use a quality catch can and use CRC (cheap) just to clean them up once a year or so. Doing the cleaning every 10-15k miles with a quality catch can I don't feel that enough buildup will be one the valves to do any damage.

I'm no expert but after reading a lot on the topic that's my plan.

Good luck.

Great post. Yes, if over 15k miles, the build up is generally too great to have a cleaning remove even 50% of the deposits. The only way to start clean, is a manual cleaning and very few shops are trained to do this yet. BG and others are seeing their products become useless for GDI engines, so they are out pushing all dealers and repair shops to use them even though they can and do cause some damage. The in-tank additives do absolutely nothing as no fuel touches the valves any longer so they are a waste, even though they pitch them hard! Only using the upper induction cleaning service will help, and then every 10-15k miles AFTER you have installed a system like the E2-X (not to be confused with the E2!) and if in a hard freeze climate, the E2-X Ultra is the best choice by far due to the capacity. It will hold close to 20 oz's before it begins to let any measurable amount through and past when we tested all of these. (I have shared this with Elite, but not sure if all the sales staff know this.

I can guide step by step how to do a manual cleaning as well, or ask other members near you. If one is mechanically inclined, get a few together for a “valve cleaning party” (I can think of more fun parties, but....)

mjj, on 21 Jan 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

So after watching a handful of videos I've come up with this.

BG's GDI Service:

Which involves doing this:

Seems pretty involved.

Silverado-Hareek is this the service you are having done? I can see this costing $350 if they are pulling the intake off to do the cleaning on each valve.

Most dealer service centers charge in the $350 range for the solvent alone, the few trained to do a crushed walnut shell media blasting or other manual method start at $800 or so to over $1200.

Remember, the in tank treatments never touch the valves so can do nothing to help. Only the engine running at high idle (always follow directions on the can closely so not too much goes in at once!) will actually help clean, and then only as much as 50% can be removed with a solvent based cleaning.

The absolute best method to address this for long trouble free engine life is to install a system like the E2-X or E2-X Ultra when new, or before 10k miles are on the engine (or perform a manual cleaning like the member did with his wifes Acadia and then start using an upper induction cleaning every 10-15k miles when the deposits are minimal and not likely to damage the engine. We have studied this for over 100k miles and see excellent results. Not 100% stopped, but very little build up ever occurs.

Also, each of the companies that sells these solvent based treatments are in panic mode (unless like Amsoil that has high quality synthetic lubricants as their main core product line) as the public finds these are no longer effective or proper for GDI engines. The pressure and push to get every dealer and service center to push these is intense. You can use CRC, Amsoil, Seafoam, BG, etc. and all work about the same as far as cleaning ability, but a manual cleaning is the only way to start fresh with clean valves along with installing a system like these, and then do an upper induction cleaning every 10-15k miles going forward.

Until the Automakers add an external separating system, this is here for the near future and affects every single auto maker in the World.

On the fast filling “gunk”, you will find water is the greatest that is caught, along with sulfuric acid, and unburnt fuel do to the cold start enrichment. Oil s one of the least you will catch when it is cold (below 45-50*F), and anytime below freezing it will be greater yet. This WAS accumulating in your crankcase and engine oil prior to installing these, and ingested as well causing the coking you want to avoid. The BEST solution cost a bit more, but will make your life much easier as far as drain intervals go, but be aware that at ½ full the mix begins to be pulled through and effectiveness falls, and never let it fill full or all will go through and you don't want that.

I have also seen a few inventive truck owners install a larger “tank” below the can and just empty into it and empty it later. Always empty AFTER the engine has been at full operating temp, and engine off. Dispose of as you would any drain oil. This is a mix of water, sulfuric acid, unburnt fuel, oil, and other hydrocarbon related compounds. NEVER pour back in the engine! (some cans do just that so little is understood).

Hope this helps, and anyone needing guidance in doing a manual cleaning, just ask.

Also, be aware that any warranty's by any of the solvent companies is very limited and tons of conditions must be met to ever collect. They all are aware of the damage caused with GDI engines when used, but they cannot stop selling and close their doors, and if used properly they are critical to long term care of these engines.

SkiDooNick700 · January 21, 2016

Thanks GDI Tech, I think I'll hang onto my E2 large can for now. I wish the new new one came out a little sooner before I bought this one!

I think I will do the Induction Cleaning every 2nd oil change. I'm coming up on my 2nd oil change, currently at 9,800 miles, running catch can since 1,500 miles, so yea.

mjj · January 21, 2016

mjj - ....

What happened to your Acadia? I just manually cleaned my wife's Acadia's valves at 30k and put an E2X can on. Hope to have both vehicles for a long time since we don't put many miles on them.

Good luck.

Thanks CH15GMC.

Regarding the Acadia up around 100k miles we started to have lots of issues, performance wise, laggyness, stumbling on harder acceleration, and even the dreaded limp mode a large number of times. It basically had a bad case of the coking problem and to magnify that the way the air intake hose is designed with the pcv system dumping into it they tend to pool the same gunk in the plastic corrugated air intake tube as our catch cans do in the winter. See the pic below. It would fill up within the week. I'm sure as you drove and that stuff sloshed around it'd end up getting sucked into the throttle body. I think this is when the limp mode would kick in. That and with the mass air flow sensor to the other side closer to the air filter box that would get slopped on too. They replaced that twice. They installed some sort of baffling in the valve covers to supposedly prevent the oil and water vapors from getting sucked out of the crankcase. We all know this doesn't work as the trucks I am told utilize similar baffling and the cans stil catch this stuff. They tore apart the top of the engine to clean the intake, values, etc. The dealerships just couldn't get it fixed after many attempts. They then said one or more cylinders were shot, I'm assuming from the build up and scouring of the walls, and it'd basically need a new engine or complete tear down rebuild. $$$. My wife was so fed up with driving it we just got rid of it and moved on. I had original order the Elite can on my truck for the Acadia but since we traded it in I ended up installing it on my truck.

In my opinion CH15GMC installing the E2-X on your Acadia was a very wise decision.

mjj · January 21, 2016

Thanks GDI Tech, I think I'll hang onto my E2 large can for now. I wish the new new one came out a little sooner before I bought this one!

I think I will do the Induction Cleaning every 2nd oil change. I'm coming up on my 2nd oil change, currently at 9,800 miles, running catch can since 1,500 miles, so yea.

So I'm at almost 20,000 miles with the can on since about 3,000 miles. Would the induction cleaning still work for me or am I too late?

mjj · January 21, 2016

haha GDI Tech do a Copy all text before submitting just in case! That way you can just paste it back in to re-submit!

I do this all the time before posting, been burned myself by it.

mjj · January 21, 2016

Thank you for that info GDI Tech. I didn't realize there was an E2-X Ultra. I suppose when you look at the cost of these thrucks, $40-50k+, the cost of the E2-X to protect your investment really isn't that bad. We spend more on accessories, wheels, tires, etc half the time.

"but be aware that at ½ full the mix begins to be pulled through and effectiveness falls, and never let it fill full or all will go through and you don't want that"

I was not aware of this after only 1/2 full. So would you say when it's full and sucking thru this is the worst possible situation and the likelihood of even more build up would be the result. It seems that it can't be good at all.

Edited January 21, 2016 by mjj

Silverado-Hareek · January 21, 2016

So after watching a handful of videos I've come up with this.

BG's GDI Service:

Which involves doing this:

Seems pretty involved.

Silverado-Hareek is this the service you are having done? I can see this costing $350 if they are pulling the intake off to do the cleaning on each valve.

Yes this is what I had done around 14,500 miles and what I'll be doing again at around 28,000 miles. I'm at 25,500 now.

GDI Tech · January 21, 2016

Using the BG or similar is good every 10-15k miles, and if your can was installed at 3k you should be fine.

Sorry about the Acadia!! Too late to help in your case, and will be in most that go that long. As you saw, the dealers are instructed to deny this is an issue, and it is now addressed and no longer occurs (which is it?) Can you imagine any automakers stopping selling all vehicles now that GDI is mandatory? Not going to happen! The official stance is "deny this is an issue" "We are not aware of this" " are the standard replies they are instructed to use. NONE are supposed to acknowledge this.We have never seen this"

namanc6 · January 22, 2016

I haven't read every single post. But I seem to get the idea. But I have a question, if I installed a catch can, will this affect my factory warranty? I barely have 1,458 miles on my truck.

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Tim Rasmussen · January 22, 2016

I really wish I would have waited a week to buy my E2-X. Living in Wisconsin I'm pretty sure I qualify in the "colder weather climates" and would have purchased the ultra can. Perhaps my EX-2 might have to get upgraded to the ultra soon if I start to see the amount of orange slime become an issue.

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