What are you towing with your 2014?

johne · August 13, 2014

I have towed various trailers up close to what it is rated. The truck does tow fine for what it is. The problem I have is the design flaw of having the tow hitch receiver sitting about 3" higher than previous gen silverados and pretty much any other truck I have seen. Tailgate hit trailer jack on many trailers and will put a big dent in your if you drop something heavy on it since they put that stupid aerodynamic spoiler on it instead of a good tailgate cap like the previous gens had. What the heck is that aerodynamic spoiler supposed to accomplish anyway. I am hardly seeing much better mpg than the 05' Tahoe we just got rid of. This thing would barely get 20 mpg with just me in it running down a flat highway at 55 mph with the a/c off and windows up. There is absolutely no way it was ever going to get the the rated 23 mpg, which is one of the main reasons I went for this truck.

thefishhawk · August 13, 2014

One of my trailers, not a bunch of weight but this thing just acts like a giant sail and used to plummet my mileage. Even towing it with my buddies 2500 diesel ram we saw a huge decrease on long trips. Just pulled it on a 1200 mile trip and it was a huge improvement in mileage, power and ease over my 02 Tahoe. Can't wait to pull the camper with it too.

calgator73 · August 13, 2014

I have towed various trailers up close to what it is rated. The truck does tow fine for what it is. The problem I have is the design flaw of having the tow hitch receiver sitting about 3" higher than previous gen silverados and pretty much any other truck I have seen. Tailgate hit trailer jack on many trailers and will put a big dent in your if you drop something heavy on it since they put that stupid aerodynamic spoiler on it instead of a good tailgate cap like the previous gens had. What the heck is that aerodynamic spoiler supposed to accomplish anyway. I am hardly seeing much better mpg than the 05' Tahoe we just got rid of. This thing would barely get 20 mpg with just me in it running down a flat highway at 55 mph with the a/c off and windows up. There is absolutely no way it was ever going to get the the rated 23 mpg, which is one of the main reasons I went for this truck.

I had the same issue with the electric jack on my travel trailer. In my case simply adjusting the wdh provided the right clearance. If that had not worked I could have rotated the head with no issues.

calgator73 · August 13, 2014

The cause of that ride problem is exactly what I described above. Stiffer rear springs attack the cause of the problem.

I agree the stock shocks aren’t great and it’s a good idea to replace them with something better (for many reasons), but they will only be camouflaging the problem, not addressing its cause. E rated tires pumped to 60+ psi in the rear actually will increase the rear ride frequency slightly and help things, but they’ll only make a pretty small change compared with airbags—but again are a good idea for lots of reasons.

Don’t get me wrong, at 100% you’re in the safe zone and if the rig is riding and handling how you like I don’t blame you for not wanting to mess with it. I’m just trying to describe an alternate way with which people may have more luck.

At 100% you’re in the safe zone, but you’re all the way to the edge of it. Everything is a matter of degree. You will have a lower threshold for jackknifing. They do test for understeer at both 50% and 100% in J2807, but at 50% they test at .4g cornering force, at 100% only .3g cornering force. And in testing for trailer sway damping they do that at 50% unless otherwise specified by the manufacturer so you have no assurance a truck would pass the test at 100% with a max load as you do if loaded to 50%.

That’s why it’s not an either/or answer as so many to think. The best answer is to use both a WDH and airbags/helper springs, etc. With a set of airbags fixing the ride problem (as well as the headlight problem) you describe, people can run a WDH closer to 50% and have an even better handling setup with higher margins of safety if they ever find themselves standing on the brakes while in a turn.

More importantly, they’ll be less tempted to exceed 100% with the WDH “because it feels better.” I’m afraid a whole lot of people do this (and in their defense, they were often told to set them up this way years ago) without knowing the risks they are taking. It may feel like it’s riding and handling great—right up to the point they jackknife it. Over-doing it with a WDH can be less safe than having no WDH at all. Unfortunately that doesn’t seem to be very common knowledge yet.

I think if people had been told to run WDH’s at only 50% years ago, they wouldn’t have developed the reputation as a magic cure-all they seem to have developed in some circles. As illustrated above, especially with a long wheelbase truck, a WDH at 50% isn’t really doing all that much. Giving it a more solid platform to work with in the first place can be a big help.

Please understand, it’s not meant to show off, it’s meant to help. I learned long ago that simply saying somebody is "wrong" and providing the correct answer didn’t really sound any different than anybody else’s opinion, which could be pulled from thin air—and it would just as likely be ignored. If the goal is to actually help people with the correct answer, being able to explain exactly why it’s the correct answer has a better chance of success. And especially when the audience is full of Engineers (such as various road racing forums), a lot of people really are interested in learning the “why” behind an answer.

But adding airbags is in no way “freezing up” the rear suspension, they only give it a higher spring rate and higher ride height. Everything is relative—even with quite a bit of air in the bags a ½ ton is still relatively soft compared with a ¾ or 1 ton and that’s easily seen by how much it rises after lifting the tongue weight off. I don't consider all those trucks to have frozen rear suspensions. I guess the difference between "frozen" and "better tuned for a specific task" could be an exercise in semantics. Though I'll point out airbags allow one to change the tuning of the suspension for a different task in a matter of seconds which comes in really handy.

And I guess this is probably my biggest point on the subject: Thanks in large part to much testing in recent years by all the OEM's, the thinking about WD hitches has changed somewhat industry-wide. It's now generally accepted that the above is the absolute maximum limit of what should be put back on the front, not necessarily the best target for one to shoot for. Most are adjusting their recommendations to target somewhere closer to 50% because that has been shown in testing to be a safer setup in many ways.

But as noted above, 50% often will result in unacceptable ride and handling traits without the help of airbags or the like which is why an either/or answer isn't necessarily the best answer to the question. In my opinion that's very clearly "both." Better ride, handling and safety by all measures.

Really good info here: http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/17730894.cfm

I don't claim this is the authoritative source it merely serves to point out the many differences between systems and vehicles. I'm not against bags or helper springs. I do believe in the general theory that I should only spend what I must. In my case adjust the hitch as perfectly as possible before I spend another dime to fine tune ride. I'm just about there.

One concern I have with adding rear axle spring rate before restoring front axle weight is that I would mask the front axle weight reduction by improving ride quality. I freely admit that I was chasing ride quality but my primary motivation was to stay within axle limits.

Doesn't having a properly adjusted and sized wdh effectively provide increased spring rate to the rear axle?

I understand that having the rear axle of a tv with too little weight can result in jack knifing. What is too little weight? I think it is very dependent on the on friction coefficient (and all those variables), drive axle weight and amount of trailer axle braking available. At what threshold does stabilitrak step in to reduce sway/jack knifing?

Newm · August 13, 2014

Took a trip from KC to Taylor Park Colorado towing my little 6.5' X 12' V-nose fully loaded down with 3 bikes and all the gear/tools etc. Running 75-78 on the interstate and keeping the speed limit +3-4mph everywhere else. I was really impressed with pulling power in the mountains especially factoring in the loss of power at elevation. Very easy to maintain the speed limit up or down. 1,810 miles total with a worst tank average of 9.6 MPG and a best of 14.74 MPG with the total trip average of 11.75 MPG.

nando87 · August 15, 2014

Not to hijack the thread, but what kind of tranny temps are you seeing when towing up hill?

Mine will hit 240-245 pretty easy on a steep grade, it cools down fast but also gets hot fast.

Another thing, has anyone had any OIL HOT warnings from their center screen? This has happened to me when towing up a steep long grade at WOT 60 +/- mph, My water temp wasn't that bad but I got a OIL HOT, Idle motor warning about 3/4 up the hill.

Newm · August 15, 2014

Not to hijack the thread, but what kind of tranny temps are you seeing when towing up hill?

Mine will hit 240-245 pretty easy on a steep grade, it cools down fast but also gets hot fast.

Another thing, has anyone had any OIL HOT warnings from their center screen? This has happened to me when towing up a steep long grade at WOT 60 +/- mph, My water temp wasn't that bad but I got a OIL HOT, Idle motor warning about 3/4 up the hill.

My load isn't very heavy, probably 3K to 3.5K max, but the highest I saw climbing mountain passes was 205. Normally stayed 195-200 just cruising long distances.

calgator73 · August 16, 2014

Not to hijack the thread, but what kind of tranny temps are you seeing when towing up hill?

Mine will hit 240-245 pretty easy on a steep grade, it cools down fast but also gets hot fast.

Another thing, has anyone had any OIL HOT warnings from their center screen? This has happened to me when towing up a steep long grade at WOT 60 +/- mph, My water temp wasn't that bad but I got a OIL HOT, Idle motor warning about 3/4 up the hill.

Again?

nando87 · August 18, 2014

No, it hasn't happened again, I haven't towed again since my last trip.

But curious if anyone else has gotten the warning now that the summer heat has been in effect for a while now and hopefully more people have towed in this heat.

calgator73 · August 19, 2014

My towing sessions have been short with no grades. Looking forward to i64w next spring

citius · August 19, 2014

I tow the boat 3500 lbs and I have a utility trailer that I over load 2.5 tons and I have no problems. I had a Honda Pilot before this doing the same thing and boy am I glad I traded it in for this.

sigmonster · August 19, 2014

I have a Z71 crew cab 5.3L with the 3.42 rear end. I just pulled a boat (approx. 4500 lb for boat and trailer) with a T-top about 200 miles through the rolling hills of NC/SC. Most of the driving was on interstate going 70-75 mph. The truck typically stayed in 5th gear with tow mode on (4th going up a hill and 6th going down). Enough power to maintain the speed and go in and out of traffic. Adequate acceleration. Averaged 10.1 mpg (I usually get 19.5-20.5 mpg on the interstate). One time the transmission "locked" into 3rd gear at 4500 rpm going up a hill trying to pass a slower car. I don't think anything was wrong--that is just all the torque/towing ability this set up has. Overall, quite adequate towing (very similar to 1500HD with 6.0L and 3.73 rear end) with great gas mileage when not towing. Handling/suspension was very good.

fataslp · August 19, 2014

23' mastercraft. Only pulled it around town but seemed to do fine. I have the 3.08 gears. Not sure if I need the 3.42 or not for towing.

Moldman · August 20, 2014

Trailer is about 7500 lbs. No problems pulling it.

Just got back from Bowling Green, Oh. 230 miles each way, got 10.2 mpg.

Pretty happy with that.

Jon A · August 21, 2014

But curious if anyone else has gotten the warning now that the summer heat has been in effect for a while now and hopefully more people have towed in this heat.

No temp issues for me yet. I’ve towed in 90 degree weather so far on a route with some decent hills but no mountain passes. Coolant has only gotten to about 222 or so (runs about 210 normally) and tranny temp has stayed below 220. I haven’t been scanning for oil temp while towing but haven’t gotten any warnings.

But as I said in the other thread, I have the fans set to come on pretty aggressively after 210. By 220 they’re close to full speed. Also I haven’t had any long, sustained WOT runs, the 6.2 has pretty much been loafing along. I think sustaining WOT very long up any hill would put me way over the speed limit unless I’m towing over my max rating.