Getting pissed with my new truck

amxguy1970 · June 28, 2019

1 hour ago, Wiggums said:

I tried about 100 pounds of spray-in liner but that didn't seem to work. I didn't have anything else but I am not too keen on dragging weight when I'm trying to maximize gas mileage.

The dirt road is about 2 miles long with about 1 mile being completely straight. With my old F-150, I went 55 mph regularly on the hard dirt road. The new truck fishtailed at only 35 mph but it didn't do that the first 4 or 5 times I drove on it even at 55 mph. I was going slower because my co-worker was on the side of the road so I stopped to ask him what he was doing.

You know, some cars, the wheels are fine at 35 mph, vibrate at 40 mph, then goes away at 45 mph. I think it's the same way with the ripples on the road. I have to be going faster or slower to avoid this. The back end wasn't bouncing around, it was just the right jiggle that really gets it crazy, and move one direction. I can handle the bouncing around but not that.

The Raptor and F-150 bounce around too but that's all four tires and I can always easily correct it. I couldn't do that with the Silverado, when I ran over the ripples, I let off the gas and it was quite a bit off again and I slammed the brakes this time with my car winding up diagonal on the road.

Nobody else drives less than 35 mph on that road, it's well-maintained with a few ripples from the water coming out of the avocado farm that borders the gravel road.

There should be a recall on this, honestly. The three times, I was driving at the same speed everybody else does.

How much would the good shocks set me back? I've never replaced shocks before. From what I've read here, the twin tubes are to blame. Two tubes disagreeing with each other. GM should have stuck with monotubes.

Sierra Dan explained it perfectly.

No there shouldn't be a recall, it isn't need even the slightest as there is no problem, especially not a "safety" problem.

No he didn't explain it well, all he did was give his opinion on how he felt it rode after a shock change... Using the words "planted slot car style feel. Almost like the tires and pavement are velcro together." What? It is a truck, when I made the change the handling was impacted minimally. Maybe I am just used to better handling cars and being on a track, but that was not at all the feeling they give. It is just comes across as sounding like a sales tactic...

Live rear axle, high capacity springs, 45 psi in the tires and a rough riding shock that you happened to find an exact mph on a particular part of road that everything happens to align perfectly to create a little wiggle that scares you. Ok, let's all get together and sue GM for you!!! Seriously, speed up or slow down, it isn't that hard it is called driving for the road conditions. So many times I have found a spot on a road that has upset a vehicle, guess what I did? I changed how I was approaching or going over that spot. I didn't whine and call on a lawsuit or anything to that measure for GM to fix it.

They can't (engineers) design a vehicle that accounts for everything single possible scenario, it is impossible. I just recently had a discussion about that with my cousin who is an engineer at Raytheon and they had a term for that which I can't for the life of me recall what it is. There will be times you come across road that upsets your truck and not another and vise versa across all brands. Ever seen the bed bounce test videos that infamously made the rounds a few years ago? Look how different speeds affect different trucks and different bumps.

Either way, change how you drive, change the shocks, or sell the truck just stop complaining about something that doesn't need to be addressed. Seriously, how many threads have you made about this now?

Tyler

MaverickZ71 · June 28, 2019

Well, here we go again, eh? . . .

When you buy the new truck with the worst handling of the big 3 (Car & Driver magazine said that the Silverado was hammering/bouncing over road imperfections the Ford and Ram hardly noticed) and you get the one with the extra stiff suspension and low profile tires, to boot, you get what you get.

All we can say again is SLOW DOWN. DON'T CLOWN.

Or get another truck. The one you have is performing as designed by the General. If your mission in life is to want to fly over whoops, you need a Ford Raptor.

Wiggums · June 28, 2019

46 minutes ago, L86 All Terrain said:

Trucks are designed for payload. They ride stiffer when empty. Today's half ton's payload is rated the same as yesterday's 3/4t's. Now with weight reduction the biggest concern for automakers, they are getting stiffer in the rear and also lighter in weight. The T1 is nearly 500lbs lighter than a K2 truck, I would expect a decent portion of weight savings come from the bed area, even though it was hinged parts using aluminum. Now GMC has taken even more weight off the rear with the Carbon Pro bed. Yes sure, lighter bed means more payload, but it also means poorer weight distribution, and evidently axle rap. Where your 2005 Chevy was a 60-40 front bias weight split, these are probably closer to 65-35, and I would expect the carbon pro to almost approach 70-30. To me, that is probably not the right direction to go for handling, but great for increased payload. They should be pulling weight from the front of the truck to improve payload while maintaining unladen handling.

I didn't buy it for the payload, I bought it for 4x4 capability since I off-road frequently in Big Bear and out in the desert. There has to be a way to make a vehicle that didn't focus on payload, but with a similar 4x4 capability. Roomy cabin inside too. It's hard to make that perfect vehicle I want. I don't even tow things.

The weight distribution thing.. I would have thought it would still be similar to the K2 now that the standard bed is longer?

I wish the big Blazer is back, not the Mexican-made joke!

swathdiver · June 28, 2019

2 hours ago, Sierra Dan said:

But honestly, how many light duty truck owners today travel daily with substantial weight in the bed or have a trailer hooked up?

I do, it's called a Yukon XL! hehehe

L86 All Terrain · June 28, 2019

1 hour ago, Wiggums said:

I didn't buy it for the payload, I bought it for 4x4 capability since I off-road frequently in Big Bear and out in the desert. There has to be a way to make a vehicle that didn't focus on payload, but with a similar 4x4 capability. Roomy cabin inside too. It's hard to make that perfect vehicle I want. I don't even tow things.

The weight distribution thing.. I would have thought it would still be similar to the K2 now that the standard bed is longer?

I wish the big Blazer is back, not the Mexican-made joke!

Perhaps people in your position that don't need the capacities of a modern half ton should look towards the Canyon/Colorado line. The ZR2 would undoubtedly handle that road like it was made of butter. They also have similar capacities as early 2000's half tons. Now before you do, I would also tell the person who told me that to screw off, I wont drive a little truck. But they are geared more towards everyday commuting than the Silverado/Sierra line. My wife has a Canyon SLT and loves it, rides great, way more room than the old ones but it will feel cramped coming from a 1500. Even I feel like Paul Bunion when I drive it and I am only 5'10" 150lbs. You could swap out your springs/shocks for a higher rate spring and better damping/rebound characteristics. Deaver made us some leaf packs for the K2, they will likely produce a progressive 9-11 leaf pack for the 2019's soon. The more leaves in the pack, the thinner they can be, allowing for a plusher ride and smoother spring rate without losing payload. Both the springs and shocks are pretty lack-luster pieces of oem equipment. They aren't going to build the perfect truck for us. They are building the perfect truck for "most consumers" so their will always be subtle changes each and every owner will want to make.

Cpl_Punishment · June 28, 2019

1 hour ago, Wiggums said:

I didn't buy it for the payload, I bought it for 4x4 capability since I off-road frequently in Big Bear and out in the desert. There has to be a way to make a vehicle that didn't focus on payload, but with a similar 4x4 capability. Roomy cabin inside too. It's hard to make that perfect vehicle I want. I don't even tow things.

The weight distribution thing.. I would have thought it would still be similar to the K2 now that the standard bed is longer?

I wish the big Blazer is back, not the Mexican-made joke!

Toyota Land Cruiser or 4Runner? If you want a pickup you can drive off road stock, I would think a Ford Raptor, Ram Power Wagon, AT4 or TB would be better than an RST Z71. I assume you would say the Colorado ZR2, Jeep Wrangler and new Ford Bronco don't have roomy cabins.

Wiggums · June 28, 2019

22 minutes ago, L86 All Terrain said:

Perhaps people in your position that don't need the capacities of a modern half ton should look towards the Canyon/Colorado line. The ZR2 would undoubtedly handle that road like it was made of butter. They also have similar capacities as early 2000's half tons. Now before you do, I would also tell the person who told me that to screw off, I wont drive a little truck. But they are geared more towards everyday commuting than the Silverado/Sierra line. My wife has a Canyon SLT and loves it, rides great, way more room than the old ones but it will feel cramped coming from a 1500. Even I feel like Paul Bunion when I drive it and I am only 5'10" 150lbs. You could swap out your springs/shocks for a higher rate spring and better damping/rebound characteristics. Deaver made us some leaf packs for the K2, they will likely produce a progressive 9-11 leaf pack for the 2019's soon. The more leaves in the pack, the thinner they can be, allowing for a plusher ride and smoother spring rate without losing payload. Both the springs and shocks are pretty lack-luster pieces of oem equipment. They aren't going to build the perfect truck for us. They are building the perfect truck for "most consumers" so their will always be subtle changes each and every owner will want to make.

I wanted the roomy cabin so that wouldn't cut it. I wasn't interested in handling, my truck came with the Z71 and a $10,000-off price tag so I bought it. I might have gone for the Z71 anyway now that it comes with a two-speed transfer which is useful in Big Bear especially when it snows. I am not an everyday commuter, I drive on dirt roads a lot more than other folks but I don't call that off-roading. I do off-road quite a bit too, but all 4x4's handle the same to me. I also wanted the bed big enough to sleep in but I don't weigh 500 pounds. That was why I had the long bed with the Ford but found that Silverado's short bed was long enough for me so I saved a bit that way. That extra 3 inches matters.. well, it's actually a LOT more when I sleep diagonally. I couldn't do that in my short bed F-150.

Handling, I know some are like sports cars. I could not care much about that, but having it sideways and nearly mowing down pedestrians while going at a speed everybody else is going is simply inexcusable. I never had to slow down in my old F-150. With the Silverado, it seems I have to stay away from 35 mph so I can either go below and annoy the people behind me or go above and stick with traffic.

Wiggums · June 28, 2019

5 minutes ago, Cpl_Punishment said:

Toyota Land Cruiser or 4Runner? If you want a pickup you can drive off road stock, I would think a Ford Raptor, Ram Power Wagon, AT4 or TB would be better than an RST Z71. I assume you would say the Colorado ZR2, Jeep Wrangler and new Ford Bronco don't have roomy cabins.

I had looked into that.. 2 problems: horrible gas mileage and no $10k off MSRP. American trucks get much better gas mileage, even with the V8. I didn't want a boulder-bashing 4x4, I am not an avid off-roader, I just do it a lot because I have to get to that ranch and there are some areas where I need 4x4, but there are no giant boulders. I thought an RST would do it with the bigger tires.

Sierra Dan · June 28, 2019

2 hours ago, amxguy1970 said:

No there shouldn't be a recall, it isn't need even the slightest as there is no problem, especially not a "safety" problem.

No he didn't explain it well, all he did was give his opinion on how he felt it rode after a shock change... Using the words "planted slot car style feel. Almost like the tires and pavement are velcro together." What? It is a truck, when I made the change the handling was impacted minimally. Maybe I am just used to better handling cars and being on a track, but that was not at all the feeling they give. It is just comes across as sounding like a sales tactic...

Live rear axle, high capacity springs, 45 psi in the tires and a rough riding shock that you happened to find an exact mph on a particular part of road that everything happens to align perfectly to create a little wiggle that scares you. Ok, let's all get together and sue GM for you!!! Seriously, speed up or slow down, it isn't that hard it is called driving for the road conditions. So many times I have found a spot on a road that has upset a vehicle, guess what I did? I changed how I was approaching or going over that spot. I didn't whine and call on a lawsuit or anything to that measure for GM to fix it.

They can't (engineers) design a vehicle that accounts for everything single possible scenario, it is impossible. I just recently had a discussion about that with my cousin who is an engineer at Raytheon and they had a term for that which I can't for the life of me recall what it is. There will be times you come across road that upsets your truck and not another and vise versa across all brands. Ever seen the bed bounce test videos that infamously made the rounds a few years ago? Look how different speeds affect different trucks and different bumps.

Either way, change how you drive, change the shocks, or sell the truck just stop complaining about something that doesn't need to be addressed. Seriously, how many threads have you made about this now?

Tyler

This sort of sounds like Kamala Harris at last nights Democratic Presidential Debate

Wiggums · June 28, 2019

"... that everything happens to align perfectly to create a little wiggle that scares you"

It didn't scare me, it pissed me off when the other guy had to jump away from me. He thought I swerved, it was THAT bad, clearly you have no clue and I wish I didn't have to read your drivel but somebody quoted you. I wish the blocking feature also applied to quotes.

Wiggle? LOL, didn't you even read what I wrote? It was diagonal when I slammed my brakes. That's 45 degrees. Not something I'd call trivial. Other users mentioned that too.

How many times have you responded to me even though I already said I set you on ignore? Hopefully, nobody quotes you this time.

Grumpy Bear · June 28, 2019

3 hours ago, aseibel said:

This is the first intelligent explanation of how the shocks work I have read anywhere online.

So does this mean that Dan's Billsteins have MORE rebound dampening and LESS compression?

Likely but with certainty I could not say. I've never cut open a pair nor have I had them on a shock dyno but I know someone who has. Ben, as I mentioned earlier. If you want a real answer or solution...he's your guy. He actually races in places I wouldn't/couldn't walk. Viking is another great resource. They will fit your truck with sensors and actually measure and adjust the system to your conditions and pace.

Bumps come is all sizes and types that are defined by their amplitude and velocity. Height and rate of rise. Velocity is the combination of rate of rise and speed of address or how fast you are driving when you hit a square edged displacement of a high the spring has enough travel to absorb. Ben will tell you that the spring should be stiff enough to hold the shock in the center of it's stroke with the truck at rest and loaded as required. The dampening adjusted to use 90% of the stroke when driving at 90% of your maximum intended speed. Bump stops take over after that...ouch! We took 150# of rate out of my front coils and a 100 psi of N2 to get her close. I would have to loose another 100 pounds of rate and add a hair of preload to be perfectly centered.

That condition exist in the rear around maximum payload meaning as she sits empty the rear shock is closer to the top (badly not centered) of it's travel than the bottom thus is hasn't much in the way of rebound travel like a recessed manhole cover. The K2 sit roughly 4 inches above center stroke empty. In compression it has tons of travel but empty a large excess of compression dampening. If this were not so then loaded it would bottom on every ripple in the road. Be like a solid axle.

There is no "one size fits all" setup and a dirt guy is the first to tell you that. A vehicle platform is a compromise and you have to decide how much of it your willing to live with. You can have a Caddy ride but not without expense and effort. You can have a Rock Crawler or a Baja buggy but not without expense and effort. You can have a Toy Hauler and be much closer but.....

They only guys that get by with nothing are those that like what they have. Does that sound to simple? There is a spring and a shock for every expectation. It just wont be free nor even cheap. You can "I want' a" till you blue and all you will get is a sore throat.

Can't help the unwilling to be helped and that is what a chronic complainer is....unwilling.

Moend · June 28, 2019

On 6/27/2019 at 8:09 AM, diyer2 said:

New shocks are cheaper than buying another truck.

Maybe add some bed weight also.

bed weight does not help, recently went on a road trip and had 4 people plus all of our camping stuff in the bed and bed felt squirmy in multiple occasions - I think it is bad shocks or just bad suspension in general.

Wiggums · June 28, 2019

There's the squirmy which I don't mind.. and there's the going off the road which I do mind for some strange reason.

I changed the psi of the tires, added 100 pounds in the back with the spray-in.

I can deal with bouncy tires and I have no problem correcting it, that's to be expected in all 4x4 trucks. It's going over ripples in the road and your rear end just goes one direction and you're forced to either turn your steering wheel immediately or slam the brakes.

I am going to Midas today, see what they say. I called the mechanic and he said he gets that from GM and Chevrolet owners.

Sierra Dan · June 28, 2019

I grew up racing motocross.

This is why I refer to "Pogo Stick" often in the threads about shocks.

Dialing in the suspension on a motocross bike or even a Nascar is key to having the edge over your competition.

Not enough compression leads to bottoming out.

Too much rebound leads to flying over the handlebars or being bucked off the wild bull in whoop sections.

The Twin Tube Rancho has a decent amount of compression but the rebound is way off allowing the leaf springs of the truck to react quicker than the shock itself.

To prove my point just remove your rear shocks and take a short drive. Without the absorber all you have is an uncontrolled spring.

Those who have the Rancho 9000 adjustables can mimic this by placing them on the highest setting.

I had a set of these on my 94 Silverado after the factory Bilstein 4600s finally gave out.

The lowest setting translates into a very soft and slow rebound and makes the truck feel like a 1978 Lincoln. Tons of body roll but not good for towing/hauling.

The highest setting of the 9000 provides a very quick rebound. This seems to be how the factory twin tube Rancho is valved.

Rancho does make a monotube RS7000 that should be far better than the factory twin tube and that i suspect is on par with the 4600 and 5100 and other good monotubes out there.

Anyone bored yet?

Cpl_Punishment · June 28, 2019

All this talk has me wondering: would a shock that rides "better" when the truck is unloaded, such as a Bilstein 4600 or 5100 or Rancho 9000, reduce your payload capacity or otherwise make it ride "worse" vs. the stock twin tube Ranchos when hauling or towing? Not looking for more discussion of whether a shock change is justified but rather just trying to educate myself on how everything works together and potential side effects of making this type of change.