Realistic Body Panel Alignment Expectations - Sierra

WisconsinTruck · January 25, 2022

I have a new 2022 Sierra SLT Limited that I'm gradually working through the fit and finish issues on. Unfortunately I am very good at finding defects on everything as it relates heavily to what I do for work in a manufacturing/ purchasing capacity. For instance, I did a warranty claim on my 4Runner because I found a slight streak on the antireflective coating on the inside of one of the headlight lenses. I can find something wrong with everything and it pretty much drives me crazy.

This brings me to the question on what is a realistic expectation for fit/finish on a GM truck these days?

My concern is that the driver side fender to upper front bumper joint (where the plastic clips into the bracket attached to the aluminum fender). The fender overhangs the bumper piece by 1.9mm the full width of the joint (8" or so) based on stacking some feeler gauges I have . The truck is white so when I'm in my garage with direct overhead lighting it is noticeable due to the shadow. Outside and from more than 2ft away a normal person will never notice it.

I was looking for a spec on this and funny enough found the body panel alignment tolerances from Ford for a 2015 F150 that has a very similar joint between fender and bumper. That specifies a flushness specification of .8mm +/- 1.5mm. So, funny enough the truck would be in spec if it was a Ford. The passenger side alignment is perfect and the body gaps honestly look really good on the rest of the truck.

Looking at the method of assembly, the bumper guide (23388662) indexes square pin holes in the metal fender flange at two places and it has two circular (not oblong) holes with screws that hold the clip tight to the flange. The plastic bumper then snaps in (I did confirm that the bumper on mine is seated appropriately/ not over inserted). There is no adjustment in this joint as the bumper can only clip in one way and the clip can only index on the fender in one way. The only way you're fixing it is by putting another fender on the truck where the holes are 2MM farther outboard or if GM has different versions of the bumper guide with alternate offsets.

So my question is, does a normal person just ignore this and move on with life or annoy a dealer until they agree to fix it? Then, if they do fix it, is the issue of having a new fender painted and installed on a new truck enough of a detractor that it isn't worth it?

HeySkippyDog · January 25, 2022

You might as well go turn it in. It's never gonna be right enough.

CamGTP · January 25, 2022

19 minutes ago, WisconsinTruck said:

So my question is, does a normal person just ignore this and move on with life or annoy a dealer until they agree to fix it? Then, if they do fix it, is the issue of having a new fender painted and installed on a new truck enough of a detractor that it isn't worth it?

Yes, a normal person just moves on with life because if these small things worry you or annoy you so much you will never ever ever be happy. Nothing is perfect and you'll just have to accept that.

I don't mean to sound harsh but you'd be the worst type of customer to deal with. Something would always be a problem. I don't know you obviously and I'm sure you're a decent guy but those type of things get talked about a lot when the customer isn't in ear shot.

WisconsinTruck · January 25, 2022

6 minutes ago, CamGTP said:

Yes, a normal person just moves on with life because if these small things worry you or annoy you so much you will never ever ever be happy. Nothing is perfect and you'll just have to accept that.

I don't mean to sound harsh but you'd be the worst type of customer to deal with. Something would always be a problem. I don't know you obviously and I'm sure you're a decent guy but those type of things get talked about a lot when the customer isn't in ear shot.

That is probably a fair point. I think that it is all a balance at the end of the day and that is why the title is asking about what is a realistic expectation.

If a lot of others find the same little things here and there it makes me more accepting because it is with a factory specification more than likely. I'm more concerned about if a given characteristic would meet an engineering specification because that means it is "right" and you're ultimately getting what the manufacturer promised.

I think the key with any manufactured product is that while everything is built within a tolerance you want to be as close to nominal as possible. Cheaper products are more likely to be on the fringes of a given tolerance and when the price goes up you get closer and closer to nominal as production controls get tighter.

Given how much trucks cost these days (even when factoring in changes in wages and inflation) I think it is fair to have a high expectation within reason.

Grumpy Bear · January 25, 2022

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_Bearing_(advertisement)

We've gone from that 1992 bearing test to slowly boiling the frog until he didn't notice that this sort of quality is no longer a "thing", common, even expected. Sad what we accept, for as much as we pay for a thing. Consumers have literally given away their economic vote. Do they even teach this in high school anymore?

Now you are considered 'petty' and "tedious" for demanding such refinement from something that cost as much as your home and something you are EXPECTED to pay every few years. I could care less what the mechanic at the dealer thinks.

OMG if you built it like that NO ONE could afford it!

Problem is, it WAS built like that and EVERYONE could afford it.

I was literally told "orange peel' was unavoidable in a production paint job after witnessing it's absence in decades of factory finishes. I hate it when people tell me I didn't see what I saw and worse? Not seeing what I'm looking at.

Here's the OP's problem. He hasn't got one. But as the public has been convinced to give away their economic votes he hasn't any LEVERAGE and will be literally spitting into the wind.

:rant:

Edited January 25, 2022 by Grumpy Bear

Matt G · January 25, 2022

I have the same truck as you and my mind works similarly. I have noticed a few things like that on mine, as well. It irritates me when washing it, but my mindset is if I were to have something like that fixed, they may fix that but make something else worse- I’d rather have a gap here or there from factory vs someone taking the thing apart and doing a less than good job putting it back together

I wish that wasn’t the case on a vehicle this expensive, but nothing is perfect. I have gotten past it and have been enjoying the truck just the same

Grumpy Bear · January 25, 2022

The public will to kick GM to the curb like Datsun and Yugo is no longer even possible.

WeGone · January 25, 2022

Personally if its not easy for me to fix at home I let it pass, End of the day it is going to get used/driven and will get other chips, dings, or scratches no matter how well you take care of it.

Edited January 25, 2022 by WeGone

customboss · January 25, 2022

1 hour ago, WisconsinTruck said:

I have a new 2022 Sierra SLT Limited that I'm gradually working through the fit and finish issues on. Unfortunately I am very good at finding defects on everything as it relates heavily to what I do for work in a manufacturing/ purchasing capacity. For instance, I did a warranty claim on my 4Runner because I found a slight streak on the antireflective coating on the inside of one of the headlight lenses. I can find something wrong with everything and it pretty much drives me crazy.

This brings me to the question on what is a realistic expectation for fit/finish on a GM truck these days?

My concern is that the driver side fender to upper front bumper joint (where the plastic clips into the bracket attached to the aluminum fender). The fender overhangs the bumper piece by 1.9mm the full width of the joint (8" or so) based on stacking some feeler gauges I have . The truck is white so when I'm in my garage with direct overhead lighting it is noticeable due to the shadow. Outside and from more than 2ft away a normal person will never notice it.

I was looking for a spec on this and funny enough found the body panel alignment tolerances from Ford for a 2015 F150 that has a very similar joint between fender and bumper. That specifies a flushness specification of .8mm +/- 1.5mm. So, funny enough the truck would be in spec if it was a Ford. The passenger side alignment is perfect and the body gaps honestly look really good on the rest of the truck.

Looking at the method of assembly, the bumper guide (23388662) indexes square pin holes in the metal fender flange at two places and it has two circular (not oblong) holes with screws that hold the clip tight to the flange. The plastic bumper then snaps in (I did confirm that the bumper on mine is seated appropriately/ not over inserted). There is no adjustment in this joint as the bumper can only clip in one way and the clip can only index on the fender in one way. The only way you're fixing it is by putting another fender on the truck where the holes are 2MM farther outboard or if GM has different versions of the bumper guide with alternate offsets.

So my question is, does a normal person just ignore this and move on with life or annoy a dealer until they agree to fix it? Then, if they do fix it, is the issue of having a new fender painted and installed on a new truck enough of a detractor that it isn't worth it?

Do what YOU want to do. It your truck. Don’t feel guilty about being YOU!
When I flew jets for a living finding problems before it was a serious emergency in flight was my job so I get your industrial training.
There are no perfect machines but heck its your machine. Make yourself as satisfied as you can within reason and enjoy your attention to detail and a better truck. We are customers and owners of great trucks that get better with critical review.
Do it before you are blind deaf and nerve endings worn out like us oldies.

WisconsinTruck · January 25, 2022

Matt G, WeGone, customboss - Exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for, much appreciated.

Grumpy Boss - I got a good chuckle out of that

Edited January 25, 2022 by WisconsinTruck

88junior · January 25, 2022

Unfortunately, its not just GM with minor issues like fit and finish. I've owned trucks and cars from several manufacturers. Quality has definitely gotten progressively worse over the years over all brands.

Grumpy Bear · January 25, 2022

11 minutes ago, WisconsinTruck said:

Matt G, WeGone, customboss - Exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for, much appreciated.

Grumpy Boss - I got a good chuckle out of that

I like to amuse and educate.

In the end as has been said. YOU own it. Be happy, don't worry.

My current truck has been near flawless in operation but it does have some of the worst paint I've even seen on anything including a shovel. But...I did the best I could with it. Over 150K and still looks like this. So much for it WILL get beat up. Maybe. Okay...fix it. Even this old fart can.

Byrds8 · January 25, 2022

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_Bearing_(advertisement)

We've gone from that 1992 bearing test to slowly boiling the frog until he didn't notice that this sort of quality is no longer a "thing", common, even expected. Sad what we accept, for as much as we pay for a thing. Consumers have literally given away their economic vote. Do they even teach this in high school anymore?

Now you are considered 'petty' and "tedious" for demanding such refinement from something that cost as much as your home and something you are EXPECTED to pay every few years. I could care less what the mechanic at the dealer thinks.

OMG if you built it like that NO ONE could afford it!

Problem is, it WAS built like that and EVERYONE could afford it.

I was literally told "orange peel' was unavoidable in a production paint job after witnessing it's absence in decades of factory finishes. I hate it when people tell me I didn't see what I saw and worse? Not seeing what I'm looking at.

Here's the OP's problem. He hasn't got one. But as the public has been convinced to give away their economic votes he hasn't any LEVERAGE and will be literally spitting into the wind.

If I have said it once Ive said it 100 times, most seem to accept mediocrity. Its sad when we use to demand such quality in the things we worked hard to obtain to now accept "its ok." On top of that, instead of keeping things for 10 years, a lot are suckered into buying that small upgrade and repeating the purchase year after year. If everyone voted with their wallets, maybe companies would listen.

Grumpy Bear · January 25, 2022

2 minutes ago, Byrds8 said:

If I have said it once Ive said it 100 times, most seem to accept mediocrity. Its sad when we use to demand such quality in the things we worked hard to obtain to now accept "its ok." On top of that, instead of keeping things for 10 years, a lot are suckered into buying that small upgrade and repeating the purchase year after year. If everyone voted with their wallets, maybe companies would listen.

Are you old enough to remember when the ability to rebuild a motor was a requirement to obtain your "Man Card"?

Even my mother had a Man Card

:crackup:

The M&M Mars Candy people will now flock on this post.

:wtf:

Byrds8 · January 25, 2022

I was born at the end of that era. My Dad always tried to get me out there to learn but I had no interest. Looking back, I wish I had. I will be turning 50 this year and miss the good ole days of less technology. Things were less complicated back then.