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Bilstein 5100 sanity check


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Looking to finalize and make this decision in the next 48 hours. Yes I've read most of the Bilstein / Eibach threads. Wanted to lay out the as is and what Im hoping for and see if this makes sense to the group. 

 

2020 RST non TB/Z71

Currently on 275/60r20 Fuel Vapor with Wrangler AT2.. I may go to 18s to improve MPG and feel later on ( really like this look )

Will not be an offroad truck, maybe an occasional field crossing

99% of miles will be highway

Only want to level the truck, but maintain some rake

Improve Handling, and eliminate the 'hops' from crossing over any bump (aware this will never be a caddie)

 

Both kits will do what I want. Initially was leaning towards the Eibach pro because its a good deal with including the springs. But the more I read, it seems like the springs are overkill because I don't offroad and will never install a winch. I can save $180+ buy just getting the 5100s. 

 

So from a logical standpoint, I should just jump on the 5100s and call it a day. 

 

for reference, here is my truck as is... 

 

PXL_20230128_171254947.jpg

Edited by Russ757
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I'd bet GM did a lot more testing and validation on their springs/spring rate than Eibach did...

 

Improve handling - what do you want to improve?

 

Hops - describe the suspension motion you are trying to alter.

 

Both of the above are subjective and I'd bet neither products are going to produce significantly different results from each other.

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7 hours ago, Russ757 said:

went ahead and purchased. For a popular truck forum, there isnt much traffic happening

 

Ill be sure to post some updates 

I am very curious to know how you like the Bilsteins. Do you notice any difference?

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23 hours ago, Russ757 said:

Looking to finalize and make this decision in the next 48 hours. Yes I've read most of the Bilstein / Eibach threads. Wanted to lay out the as is and what Im hoping for and see if this makes sense to the group. 

 

2020 RST non TB/Z71

Currently on 275/60r20 Fuel Vapor with Wrangler AT2.. I may go to 18s to improve MPG and feel later on ( really like this look )

Will not be an offroad truck, maybe an occasional field crossing

99% of miles will be highway

Only want to level the truck, but maintain some rake

Improve Handling, and eliminate the 'hops' from crossing over any bump (aware this will never be a caddie)

 

Both kits will do what I want. Initially was leaning towards the Eibach pro because its a good deal with including the springs. But the more I read, it seems like the springs are overkill because I don't offroad and will never install a winch. I can save $180+ buy just getting the 5100s. 

 

So from a logical standpoint, I should just jump on the 5100s and call it a day. 

 

for reference, here is my truck as is... 

 

PXL_20230128_171254947.jpg

 

I can confirm that the Bilstein 5100's will improve your highway handling and will eliminate the rear end from hopping/skipping around. 

 

I set my front Billsteins to 1.5" of lift and added a 1" rear block. I reduced the rake by .5" to 1" from 1.5". If I was to do it again, I think I would do 2" up front and 1" rear reducing the rake to .5".

 

I have no experience with the Eibachs, so I can't comment on them.

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Oddly enough, this site caused me to get Ad Block Plus.  

 

Mine is an HD, but I give a big stamp of approval to the Bilstein 4600's I just installed, much better suspension control all the way around.    

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22 hours ago, asilverblazer said:

I'd bet GM did a lot more testing and validation on their springs/spring rate than Eibach did...

 

Improve handling - what do you want to improve?

 

Hops - describe the suspension motion you are trying to alter.

 

Both of the above are subjective and I'd bet neither products are going to produce significantly different results from each other.

I'm sure GM did a lot of testing and validation as well.....to meet a minimum requirement.  You must remember that all testing and production is done to meet MINIMUM requirements.  GM has to produce a shock on a certain budget, that can accomplish what 95 percent of driver's do, which is highway driving with an empty bed and no load.  Go outside of those boundaries, and their testing and validation doesn't fall within the course and scope of how the vehicle is being used, and the equipment will fail under extended use on those conditions.  The rancho's lasted less than 20k miles on my truck before blowing out while the Eibach ProTruck system has almost 65k miles on it now and still feel like knew.

 

Improve Handling - Are you seriously gonna say the Silverado doesn't have extreme lateral roll and longitudinal bounce?

 

Hops - The back end hops over bumpy roads and kicks the back end out, enough that GM actually changed their suspension tuning to account for it....didnt solve the problem.

 

Neither of the above are subjective, they are facts that GM has tried to account for but has come up short for one reason or another.  And yes, the aftermarket products (Bilstein, Eibach, etc.) do show SIGNIFICANT differences in results, eliminating excessive roll, sway, bounce and hop.

Edited by Gangly
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6 hours ago, Diamond817 said:

Probably because the amount of pop-ups and ads on this site coupled with its incredibly slow loading turns people off from using it. 

 

ahh. I havent noticed but would def be annoying. Is there a better site everyone uses?

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3 hours ago, Gangly said:

Improve Handling - Are you seriously gonna say the Silverado doesn't have extreme lateral roll and longitudinal bounce?

 

Hops - The back end hops over bumpy roads and kicks the back end out, enough that GM actually changed their suspension tuning to account for it....didnt solve the problem.

 

Neither of the above are subjective, they are facts that GM has tried to account for but has come up short for one reason or another.  And yes, the aftermarket products (Bilstein, Eibach, etc.) do show SIGNIFICANT differences in results, eliminating excessive roll, sway, bounce and hop.

Not sure what you're wanting from ME, I'm trying to make INFORMED recommendations to the OP...

 

"Are you seriously gonna say the Silverado doesn't have extreme lateral roll and longitudinal bounce?" No and not more than any other pick up truck, but there are many, many, many characteristics that are part of handling. We have no idea which of those characteristics the OP is trying to improve. You assume lateral roll and longitudinal bounce, however the OP specifically mentioned that separately. If you correctly guess that its roll he is trying to fix a stiffer set of springs is one solution; I'd recommend a different sway bar. Adding a stiffer spring like the Eibach you recommend in the front may lessen body roll, but will have other impacts on ride quality that the OP might not find desirable (the greater spring rate won't compress the same amount from the same input forces, less or no compression of the spring gives the shock little to nothing to work with, as Grumpy says... no amount of shock valving will fix too much spring rate).

 

"The back end hops over bumpy roads and kicks the back end out." That is YOUR interpretation of the OPs concern. Interpreting that the "hop" is referring to the rear, it is induced from the over sprung rear axle. That isn't entirely corrected by different shocks, however they can help by lessening the initial bumps impact on suspension compression. They will also help lessen bounce (repeated compression/rebound cycles) of the SPRINGS because of the more aggressive valving. However, when unloaded especially, the rear springs are so stiff that the rear suspension is compressing very little and the shock is only able to work with a small amount of that motion. Rather, when unloaded much of the bounce and hop is caused from the TIRES/TIRE PRESSURE (just like dribbling basketballs of varying pressures). If that bounce does not translate to spring compression, shocks won't have any impact at all. 

 

How a suspension FEELS to a user is entirely subjective. Presenting the 'facts' of what GM does to alter a set of characteristics is irrelevant if the OP is trying to alter an entirely different set. Side note: I would like to see your documentation of GM's suspension tuning changes. 

 

"I'd bet neither products are going to produce significantly different results from EACH OTHER." In other words, comparable premium shocks probably won't be different enough for a general user to tell much subjective difference between them.

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19 hours ago, asilverblazer said:

Not sure what you're wanting from ME, I'm trying to make INFORMED recommendations to the OP...

But you didn't give him any informed recommendations did you?

 

"Are you seriously gonna say the Silverado doesn't have extreme lateral roll and longitudinal bounce?" No and not more than any other pick up truck....
Really?  No difference in the stability of his truck vs the airbag suspension of a RAM, the rear coil system of the RAM or Tundra, the multimatic spool(DSSV), or the adaptive suspension control on other GM trucks?

 

We have no idea which of those characteristics the OP is trying to improve.

Yes we do, he specifically says Hop over bumps.

 

You assume lateral roll and longitudinal bounce, however the OP specifically mentioned that separately. If you correctly guess that its roll he is trying to fix a stiffer set of springs is one solution; I'd recommend a different sway bar. 

Find one for the T1's.  Springs and shocks are readily available and eliminate both issues.

 

Adding a stiffer spring like the Eibach you recommend in the front may lessen body roll, but will have other impacts on ride quality that the OP might not find desirable (the greater spring rate won't compress the same amount from the same input forces, less or no compression of the spring gives the shock little to nothing to work with, as Grumpy says... no amount of shock valving will fix too much spring rate).

Silverado bounce issues aren't spring rates, its shock valving.  Bounce is never the fault of the spring, its the result of improper compression and rebound settings within the shock.

 

"The back end hops over bumpy roads and kicks the back end out." That is YOUR interpretation of the OPs concern. Interpreting that the "hop" is referring to the rear, it is induced from the over sprung rear axle.

You continue to assume that the springs are "over sprung" when its the shock that controls compression and rebound rates.  The factory springs are not overly stiff, and the first time you get a blown out shock on your T1 you will realize that VERY quickly.

 

However, when unloaded especially, the rear springs are so stiff that the rear suspension is compressing very little and the shock is only able to work with a small amount of that motion. Rather, when unloaded much of the bounce and hop is caused from the TIRES/TIRE PRESSURE (just like dribbling basketballs of varying pressures). If that bounce does not translate to spring compression, shocks won't have any impact at all. 

You are only taking into consideration the compression rates and excluding the rebound dampening.  If your compression or rebound settings are too harsh or too soft you will get either a hop or a floating rear because the shock stroke cycle cant keep up with the terrain.   I agree with your second sentence, but the factory springs are not too stiff and limiting the ability of the shock to function properly.  If the springs were so stiff that the shock was only allowed to work "with a small amount of that motion", then the aftermarket shocks I put on the rear would have had near zero difference on the amount of hop and instability coming from the rear, but instead my Eibachs completely eliminated the harshness and hop.

 

How a suspension FEELS to a user is entirely subjective. Presenting the 'facts' of what GM does to alter a set of characteristics is irrelevant if the OP is trying to alter an entirely different set. Side note: I would like to see your documentation of GM's suspension tuning changes. 

Check the rear suspension part numbers for Silverado and Sierra models from 2019 and 2020.  Multiple articles were written by popular magazine scribes to the same extent.  I won't bother spending the time to dig it all up for a singular post on this website so you can either take my word for it or don't, it doesn't matter to me.

 

You can chose to continue to argue, or not, the choice is yours.  I can "agree to disagree" and I will respect your right to have a differing opinion.  As such, I will not be responding to this post again.  Hopefully the OP has some information he can digest and make an informed decision. 

 

 

Edited by Gangly
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Well that escalated quickly. 

 

As mentioned, it was between the Eibach and hte 5100s. Both will give me what im looking for, ie a better ride. In my opinion, it wont take much. 

 

I pulled the trigger on 5100 as I found a set for under $500 shipped which was 170 less than the lowest eibach kit and from reading, I wont need the springs for my application. 

 

now everyone kiss and make up

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Meh - just trying to have a friendly debate.

 

Fixing 'hops' and 'bounces' requires everyone to agree what is a 'hop' vs. 'bounce' is all. I THINK we actually are in agreement that the shocks are good idea... I'm saying there is no silver bullet; there are ride quality conditions that shocks won't help.

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