E85 Power Increase

[Grumpy Bear]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 1:22 PM, cire0309 said:

So there's been tons of talk here recently in the forums about the 5.3/6.0/6.2 and mileage.  

 

I see there's a few guys on here (particularly in the midwest) who are running E85 for the cost benefit, but here in GA, E85 and 87 octane E10 are about the same price, so it's not about the price. 

 

My question, for those of you running E85, do you see a significant power increase? Maybe someone with some spare money and spare time has taken their truck to the dyno and have some hp/tq numbers that they can share. I'm feeling optimistic.

 

Just as a disclaimer: I feel the 6.0 has plenty of go, but just curious how it would do on E85.

IF you E85 is actually 84% ethanol you can expect about a 10% increase in power and about a 30% reduction if fuel mileage on the factory tune. The heat content while being lower than gasoline requires a richer AFR that nets about 10% more BTU's per CFM of air. Having said that, that isn't the real allure of alky fuel in higher performance applications. It's real allure is that it permits a MUCH higher compression ratio (brake mean effective cylinder pressure) which increases thermal efficiency with even taller gains possible. A natural for blown or turbo applications. 

 

Back in the day we use to say a point of compression per ten points octane but you could run 14:1 on Methanol. Some fancy computer timing a fuel mapping software, VVT and computer generated EGR allow gas compressions higher than the earlier times would have ever permitted without some hideous intake closing angles or a HUGE doses of elevation. 

 

Unless your buying race grade E85 from someone like SONOCO who can certify 85% content you real numbers will be something less than 10% but still of note. Maybe. Here in Illinois I've seen delivery sheets show a test value under 75%. 

[swathdiver]

9 hours ago, cmysstailights said:

2015 and up. Another member didna install on his 17 6.0 i think it was.

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I think they all (K2s) run the same computer, it's the same L96 motor.  As I read the other posts, why can't you use an older GMT-900 computer with the L96 and have better tuning options?  

 

Unless I missed something, BlackBear can tune both the engine and transmission with the AutoCal or in person.

[swathdiver]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

IF you E85 is actually 84% ethanol you can expect about a 10% increase in power and about a 30% reduction if fuel mileage on the factory tune. The heat content while being lower than gasoline requires a richer AFR that nets about 10% more BTU's per CFM of air. Having said that, that isn't the real allure of alky fuel in higher performance applications. It's real allure is that it permits a MUCH higher compression ratio (brake mean effective cylinder pressure) which increases thermal efficiency with even taller gains possible. A natural for blown or turbo applications. 

 

Back in the day we use to say a point of compression per ten points octane but you could run 14:1 on Methanol. Some fancy computer timing a fuel mapping software, VVT and computer generated EGR allow gas compressions higher than the earlier times would have ever permitted without some hideous intake closing angles or a HUGE doses of elevation. 

 

Unless your buying race grade E85 from someone like SONOCO who can certify 85% content you real numbers will be something less than 10% but still of note. Maybe. Here in Illinois I've seen delivery sheets show a test value under 75%. 

Winter blend is supposed to be E70 and summer blend E80 and that's been consistent down here last year; within a few points.

 

The only way someone will actually get E85 is by purchasing E85R from Sunoco in 5 gallon cans.  E83 is the highest street legal rating allowed.  The missing 2% is a chemical added by the government to make it not drinkable or taxable as booze; something like that.

 

The truck in the sig, gets 14.1 mpg @ 70 mph burning E85 @ 80%.  It gets 18.17 mpg @ 70 mph burning 93 octane @ 8%.

 

Since October of 2017, the truck has averaged 11.1 MPG on 716 gallons of E85 and 14.0 MPG on 488 gallons of 93.

[cmysstailights]

In ny the minimum ethanol rating is 75% i believe. Have to recheck the sticker. I have a scan tool and have not seen lower than 78% alchohol. I run it cause of.cost per mile. Almost 90% of my day is stop light to stop light and 4 out of 7 days is pulling a 4k lb cargo trailer. So my mpg goes to 6 and no trailer i see almost 8. Dam city traffic n lights kill me.

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[swathdiver]

34 minutes ago, cmysstailights said:

In ny the minimum ethanol rating is 75% i believe. Have to recheck the sticker. I have a scan tool and have not seen lower than 78% alchohol. I run it cause of.cost per mile. Almost 90% of my day is stop light to stop light and 4 out of 7 days is pulling a 4k lb cargo trailer. So my mpg goes to 6 and no trailer i see almost 8. Dam city traffic n lights kill me.

Me too, finally paying fourteen cents a mile to drive my truck around and have full power available.  Get 7-9 towing here.

 

Federal law has E85 being anywhere from 51% to 83%.  The highest I've seen has been 80% and since October it's mostly averaging 73%.  

[DirtyMarcus]

5 hours ago, swathdiver said:

The truck in the sig, gets 14.1 mpg @ 70 mph burning E85 @ 80%.  It gets 18.17 mpg @ 70 mph burning 93 octane @ 8%.

 

Since October of 2017, the truck has averaged 11.1 MPG on 716 gallons of E85 and 14.0 MPG on 488 gallons of 93.

Ive only ran E85 since I bought the truck, sans a few trips to Louisiana where its sometimes hard to find 93.  I get about 14 on the highway (have babied it at gotta 21.7 doing 80 mph from austin to houston before).  In the city im currently averaging about 11 mpg also but been doing a lot of short trips lately.  I dont drive extremely conservative either.  FWIW I also have a 93 octane tune with the diablo tuner, which has been on for about 20k miles.  My main reason for E85 has been cost.  Its always at least 25 cent cheaper that 87 octane but usually 50 cent cheaper per gallon.  With the 93 octane tune, E85 is $1 cheaper per gallon at minimum so the cost is stupidly effective for me.  

[Cowpie]

On 1/15/2019 at 1:05 AM, swathdiver said:

Winter blend is supposed to be E70 and summer blend E80 and that's been consistent down here last year; within a few points.

 

The only way someone will actually get E85 is by purchasing E85R from Sunoco in 5 gallon cans.  E83 is the highest street legal rating allowed.  The missing 2% is a chemical added by the government to make it not drinkable or taxable as booze; something like that.

 

The truck in the sig, gets 14.1 mpg @ 70 mph burning E85 @ 80%.  It gets 18.17 mpg @ 70 mph burning 93 octane @ 8%.

 

Since October of 2017, the truck has averaged 11.1 MPG on 716 gallons of E85 and 14.0 MPG on 488 gallons of 93.

It isn't nearly the conspiracy theory that you allude to.

 

A outlet can be fined if their ethanol content in fuel is higher than what is labeled at the pump.  That is why typically E85 will be 83% or less at the pump. Same for E10.  When tested at the pump, most E10 is actually 8%.  It is all about compliance and fines.  The fuel outlets err on the side of caution to avoid a fine if the state boys show up and randomly test their fuel.

[Black02Silverado]

Not to mention but running FF helps prevent LSPI.

[swathdiver]

On 1/16/2019 at 8:46 AM, Cowpie said:

It isn't nearly the conspiracy theory that you allude to.

 

A outlet can be fined if their ethanol content in fuel is higher than what is labeled at the pump.  That is why typically E85 will be 83% or less at the pump. Same for E10.  When tested at the pump, most E10 is actually 8%.  It is all about compliance and fines.  The fuel outlets err on the side of caution to avoid a fine if the state boys show up and randomly test their fuel.

I think you've figured me wrong Cliff.  E85 has to include 2% denaturants by law.  That's all I'm saying.  E85 can be anywhere from 51-83% alcohol content.  Laws and regulations are changing rapidly, an article from 2007 is certainly out of date as might be one from just two or three years ago.  There are three E85 blends that I'm aware of but I do not remember if these are all still in place.  One article for winter blend says 70%, another 69%, I keep seeing 73-76%.  A station north of town has E30 and I might try that and see what the numbers look like for a few tankfuls.

[KARNUT]

Where I bought E-85 it's says minimum 70 percent.


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[Cowpie]

11 hours ago, swathdiver said:

I think you've figured me wrong Cliff.  E85 has to include 2% denaturants by law.  That's all I'm saying.  E85 can be anywhere from 51-83% alcohol content.  Laws and regulations are changing rapidly, an article from 2007 is certainly out of date as might be one from just two or three years ago.  There are three E85 blends that I'm aware of but I do not remember if these are all still in place.  One article for winter blend says 70%, another 69%, I keep seeing 73-76%.  A station north of town has E30 and I might try that and see what the numbers look like for a few tankfuls.

Ok, my bad.  I get what you are referring to. Yeah, all ethanol targeted to fuel use is denatured with petroleum distillate at a minimum of 2%.  That is the 100% ethanol at the biorefinery.  Before it can be transported out, it has to be denatured.

 

It does vary by state and even by the actual retailer as to what the blend is seasonally.  There really is no Federal standard in that regard. The only minimum I am aware of is 51% to fall into the flex fuel / E85 category.  Many places don't see this but in my area we have E0, E10, E15, E20 ,E30, E50, And E85 (which encompasses everything from 51% to 83%.