Oil consumption

[Black02Silverado]

I'm at 15k on this oil change right now.  Checked the oil and it is still full.  Running AMSOIL ASM 0w-20 and an AMSOIL EaO17 filter.  This is on our 2016 Suburban. Current mileage on the Suburban is 36,110.

 

Off topic but I like the fact that I get the oil in gallons and just can dump two gallons in and be done.  No messing with qts or 5qt containers. 

[Doublebase]

19 hours ago, 300 Blackout said:

 

Thanks for the info about the Dexos spec.

 

Yep, AMSOIL is pricey stuff. If, however, you can get 25k miles between oil changes with it, then it’s less expensive than lower priced quality options requiring changes every 7,500 miles. Right now I run Valvoline High Mileage full synthetic, which is also excellent oil. The Valvoline, however, has a NOACK of 11.1 and a reputation for higher consumption.

 

I’m installing a bypass oil filter next week. If the Valvoline exhibits lower consumption with the better filtration, great. If not, I’m gonna try the Amsoil and see how far it will go.

Yeah I may give Amsoil a try, only problem is I no longer do extended drains (I blame the oil consumption on my last vehicle for it). And I believe direct injection engines do a number on oil. So if I spend on the Amsoil it'll be getting dumped at 5,000 miles (seems like a waste). But I may do it anyway...try it once and see how it goes.

[300 Blackout]

Send me your used Amsoil when you drain it at 5,000 miles and I’ll “recycle” it in my engine for the remaining 20,000 miles of life it has left. :-)

 

[KARNUT]

I remember amsoil has 5-7-25K oil to fit different change intervals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Grumpy Bear]

Coffee clutch this morning we were kick'n cost of things around. Oil was on the menu. This guy 20 years my senor has this OLD Dodge duelly with an oil burner in her. (that means he's really old). She's a looker for her age. He mentions that he changes her Shell Rotella every 5K and always has. Guys say he's wasting his money. Tells us he just had it rebuilt last winter. They say all that oil gone to waste. He says it has one MILLION miles on that build AND rod, main and cam bearings are still stock size. Clean, sleeve and refit pistons. They get real quite. Then he says he's done that three times.  He or one of his kids has it on the road constantly. Fifth wheel car hauler all over creation. 

 

First liar hasn't got a chance. 

[71_340]

I guess I will use Dexos 0-20, I have two free oil changes since I bought a CPO.  I will probably stick with the dealer oil changes every 5K, my truck may not need it but it gives me piece of mind.

 

By the way what does a dealer oil change and tire rotation cost for a Sierra 6.2L ?  When I had Fords it was always around 50,00 (semi-syn oil, filter, rotation and a multi point inspection plus a complimentary carwash), for my Tundra the same was around 70.00.

[HondaHawkGT]

On 10/6/2018 at 5:26 PM, cr250Silverado said:

Wow, I’m not a mechanic but this seems to be un-reasonably high! I can only imagine the accelerated oil contamination and break down that occurs as the total volumne decreases. 

 

Update; I found a FCA bulletin with the same burn rate... 

 

maybe this is just the new standard they are taking to weasel out of warranty claims.

 

LMAO Toyota and Subaru says it's normal for their vehicles to burn up to 1 quart every 1,200 miles. Honda has a similarly low standard for oil consumption. The new Mustang GT350's 5.2 Voodoo will "normally" burn up to 1 quart every 500 miles and that engine runs on 5W50.

 

GM holds a fairly high standard by comparison. Especially if you take into account that most of their engines run on 0W20, which will lose 10 to 13% of its volume due to vaporization.

[Grumpy Bear]

5 hours ago, HondaHawkGT said:

LMAO Toyota and Subaru says it's normal for their vehicles to burn up to 1 quart every 1,200 miles. Honda has a similarly low standard for oil consumption. The new Mustang GT350's 5.2 Voodoo will "normally" burn up to 1 quart every 500 miles and that engine runs on 5W50.

 

GM holds a fairly high standard by comparison. Especially if you take into account that most of their engines run on 0W20, which will lose 10 to 13% of its volume due to vaporization.

We shouldn't confuse at what level of consumption they are willing to warranty with what is truly reasonable. A quart in 500 or a quart in 1,200 miles is anything but reasonable. These are not two stroke motors.   IMHO of course. 

[diyer2]

Being I buy used vehicles I have never had one that didn't burn some oil.

Maybe due to previous treatment.

My 2012 Sierra, no AFM activated (64 k miles) is using a little oil and so is the wife's Accord with 100 k miles.

My 93 Silverado (230+ k miles) used oil depending on how it was treated. Burned the most when towing of course but still nothing  compared to 1 quart every 1200 miles.

 

Oil consumption doesn't bother me if it's not excessive.

 

 

 

 

[HondaHawkGT]

9 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

We shouldn't confuse at what level of consumption they are willing to warranty with what is truly reasonable. A quart in 500 or a quart in 1,200 miles is anything but reasonable. These are not two stroke motors.   IMHO of course. 

Haha these oil consumption limits for warranty coverage are rarely arbitrary limits. More often than not, they're set based on complaints and projected warranty costs. Toyota and Subaru dropped their acceptable oil consumption limit in order to avoid warranty work on many of their newer engines (Toyota 2AZ-FE and Subaru EZ36D and 4 cylinder FB engine line). They issue TSB's and Limited-Service Campaigns with very narrow time windows (less than 1 year) for owners to learn about and have their vehicles checked for consumption. If they missed the deadline (less than 1 year) or the car didn't develop the issue before the deadline, they're stuck dealing with the problem on their own.

 

Who would think it's normal for a company like Toyota to tell customers it's normal for their 2-3 year old Camry to burn anywhere near 1 quart every 1,200 miles? Yet it's a fairly common issue, especially in Toyota vehicles with the 2AZ-FE.

http://www.toyotaproblems.com/trends/excessive-oil-consumption/

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/Camry/2007/engine/excessive_oil_consumption.shtml

 

"Subaru considers one quart burned for every 1,000–1,200 miles to be within “normal specifications.” That means if you follow their recommended changing schedule, which is usually 5,000 miles, you’ll probably need to top of your oil reservoir 4 times or so." - http://www.subarucomplaints.com/trends/oil-consumption/

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2014/subaru-class-action-lawsuit-excessive-oil-consumption.shtml

 

"The majority of complaints say that they were told from Honda and dealership mechanics that it was normal for a powertrain to burn a quart of oil every 1,000 miles. The class-action suit claims Honda refused to honor its warranties and instead told people to check their oil every time they stop for gas."

http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/excessive-oil-consumption/

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Accord/2013/engine/excessive_oil_consumption.shtml

 

 

Ford added the 500 miles per quart limit to the Mustang GT350 supplemental owners manual starting in 2016 in response to the number of 2015 GT350 owners complaining of massive oil consumption. Many had engines blow up because they didn't expect their brand new hand-built 5.2 Voodoo to burn 2 quarts in 1,000 miles. Car and Driver's long term GT350 burned 8.5 quarts of oil over the course of 11,800 miles - most of which were freeway miles according to them.

 

"Since our last update, the 5.2-liter Voodoo V-8 has developed a thirst for 5W-50 synthetic oil. Over the past 11,800 miles, the high-revving engine has consumed 8.5 quarts. There are no leaks, so we can only assume that it’s exiting the quad tailpipes. If this were the ’80s, this might be acceptable, but it’s 2018 and oil depletion has become a rarity. Ford has released a supplement to the owner’s manual regarding oil consumption, stating that the engine could drink up to one quart every 500 miles under “extended time at high engine speeds, high loads, engine braking, hard cornering maneuvers, and track use.” Our car, however—excepting the odd mountain run and back-road blast, of course—has spent most of its life on freeways."

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-long-term-test-update-2-review

 

 

I'm just putting this discussion in the right context. 1 quart of oil every 2,000 miles is very low compared to what many manufacturers consider the "normal" level of oil consumption. Most of the GM Gen V V8's don't burn anywhere near 1qt per 2,000 miles. Some oil loss is normal simply due to the fact that modern engine oils have viscosity modifiers that vaporize under normal conditions inside the engine. A typical 0W-20 has some of the highest volatility ratings  (NOACK Volatility aka ASTM D5800). The NOACK test heats oil to 250C and measures how much oil by volume is lost due to evaporation. Most 0W20's are in the range of 10-13%. In a Gen V 5.3 or 6.2, I wouldn't be surprised if you lose close to 1/2 quart due to vaporization in the summer, especially if you do any towing or aggressive driving. It's still a very minor amount of oil consumption.

[j-ten-ner]

I don't care what car manufacturers consider normal.

My 07 Sierra was and my 2013 Silverado is using oil.

Non of the many cars I've owned before were using oil worth mentioning between oil changes.

So, it can be done. That's the bottom line.

 

so long

j-ten-ner

[diyer2]

6 minutes ago, j-ten-ner said:

I don't care what car manufacturers consider normal.

My 07 Sierra was and my 2013 Silverado is using oil.

Non of the many cars I've owned before were using oil worth mentioning between oil changes.

So, it can be done. That's the bottom line.

 

so long

j-ten-ner

Agree.

People I know have vehicles that don`t use oil.

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by diyer2

[Grumpy Bear]

Three Civics running. Two bought new and the third my sister-in-laws car she bought new we took over payments on. @ 650,000 miles between the lot of them and not a drop between 1997 and today. 80K on the Silverado and none used there either. 87 5.0 Mustang used none. Beat that one like a pup.  76 Corvette L48 none. Bought used with 60K on the clock.  09 Buick 3800 zip. Wife's Terrain nada. Her Buick 2.4, nope. 76 Caprice wagon...no way. 76 Ford 351 W not a drop. 72 ACM 232 no joy. I'm loosing track Two mid 60's Mustangs with 200 sixes. One leaked oil to bad to tell but to old when bought to fix. Main seal.  The other used nil but was changed every 2K so hard to tell. None within 2,000 though. 

 

64 Malibu 283 I bought with about 130K on the clock. Now that one used oil. A quart per tank. Leaked trans fluid and took a band adjustment once a week. It was a pretty car. 65 Ford 352 would throw off the first quart of it's six and then not a drop afterward. Second 352 used none between 2 K changes and you had to tap the oil pressure gauge to make sure it was working. Bad cam bearings. Used car. Toyota Peso bought new used about a quart in 1,000 starting around 100K but ran to 300K. Never did smoke. Pennzoil motor.  It was the only motor we had that used oil that we bought new and the only motor that ever ran Pennzoil. (Pre Shell). Only car in five plus decades of driving and maintaining bought new that ever did use any oil at all. Most of my used cars were not offenders but the ones that were....beat....overheated and miss used silly cars before I bought them. I knew it when I did. Rebuilt them or sold for part for more than the buy price. 

 

There's a few more but none that used. 72 Toyota. 2 actually now that I think of it. One had a 22R...nice motor Bikes to many to count. Two used a bit of oil. Both pre 60 Brit twins beat to death when I got them. One Honda CB 600 that leaked something awful. No history. Bought and sold in a month. 50's 500 Royal Enfield used oil silly until I fixed the PCV system then a few ounces between changes. Never enough to 'top off'. 90% of my bikes were oil tight and used none. Almost all were bought new or very low mile uints where I knew and rode with the owners. Oh, the 76 Superglide used oil like I owned an oil well. Literally the AMF Strike year bike. Bought new. Bike delivered with faulty oil rings, warped valves and missing third gear shift fork.  Use none after the rebuild. 

 

 

 

 

[Doublebase]

My personal oil usuage...

2007 Lexus LS460 - Never used a drop until it reached 120,000 miles, then when it hit 150,000 it started drinking oil. 1 quart every 1,000 miles.

 

1999 Honda Accord 4cyl - Never used a drop until it got over 200,000 miles, then it started - got gradually worse up until it reached 270,000 - then it was using a quart every 500.

 

2008 Honda CRV - That thing uses almost no oil. 5,000 mile synthetic oil changes. I'll use anything that's on sale for it. Uses almost nothing, never have to top up.

 

2018 Silverado - I'm using a half quart between 5,000 mile oil changes...maybe more.

 

I run a rather large repair facility, I always pull the dipstick before an oil change out of curiosity to see what various cars are using. I've never seen a newer GM truck that wasn't low on oil. Some of them more than others...but I've never seen one right up to the full mark. And one of them is never showing oil at all on that dipstick (60,000 miles 2014, 5,000 mile oil changes). We've told her to take it to the dealer and see if they'll install new rings. She could care less...most people don't.

[Black02Silverado]

I forgot to mention my 2002 Silverado that I purchased new with 10 miles on it back in Nov 2001.  It got to the point that it was using oil at around 100k miles a qt to 5k miles.  If I was towing my 5k pound trailer up and down the interstate, the next day on start up it would puff a nice cloud of smoke.  Then at 182k miles it started an oil leak.  So I went and changed out what I thought to be the issue. Oil pressure switch since it looked wet.  Leak still there, changed out oil pan gasket. Leak still there.  Next stop was valve cover gaskets, intake gaskets and valley cover gasket.  Leak still there.  Last stop, rear main seal.  Changed it and leak gone, nice and dry now. 

 

After all that the next time I towed our trailer and got in the truck the next morning no more puff of smoke.  Also my oil consumption went away. It stays full now so far up to 6k miles. Have not gone longer since the gasket change since it was just this past spring.  Seems to me that I had a small leak where it was sucking oil from the valley area into the intake some how.  Because once that got fixed the smoke and consumption went away.  So now at 184k miles and even running 0w-20 oil, no smoke on start up and no consumption. Remember this engine calls for 5w-30.  I'm just glad the leak was fixed along with my consumption issue.  I'm a happy camper.

 

My 2014 Cruze diesel has 68k miles on it and it stays full and I have gone 10k miles on an oil change on it.  Same with my daughters 2012 Cruze with the 1.4 turbo.  It stays full as well between oil changes. 

 

Now I did have a oil burner, a 1991 Jetta diesel.  It started out light and got really bad at 100k miles to a qt in 500 miles.  But that was due to a poor rebuild.  The shop I took it to didn't have a clue.  The first 1000 miles it was using oil really bad and smoking.  I pulled it apart and found broken piston rings on #2 cylinder. Looks like they did it when they installed the piston.  So i put all new rings back in.  My fault for not re-honing the cylinders so the new rings didn't seat from there on out. I'm just lucky it never ran away from me using the sump oil as fuel. There are horror stories on line where the 1.6 diesel in older  VW's would do that.  They would start to suck oil out of the sump and go full throttle and nothing you could do to stop them.

 

Now I hope I don't jinks myself and my vehicles will start using oil.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Black02Silverado