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Gas vs. Diesel, please read 1st

StevePT

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i82much Enthusiast

i82much

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, Icutmetl said:

I came from a crude, thirsty, and gutless (but pristine) 1996 F350 with a 460 into a new 2018 GMC All Terrain HD 2500 Duramax, knowing that the modern gas engines would likely be the better choice.   I don’t drive it daily and I don’t consistently work it hard. 

 

I can fully accept the fact  that modern diesels don’t hold the economic advantage over their gas counterparts that they once did. Perhaps at resale, but that’s about it. I’ve developed the opinion that you either have to WANT or NEED a modern diesel to make it worth the overall cost of ownership. You can pay for a lot of 87 octane with the cost advantage, you just won’t have the same effortless driving experience.

 

I wanted it, plain and simple. I don’t need it. This is my first diesel that I’ve owned, and I wanted the power and control that a gas will never give. I like being able to drive out west heading into the wind with a sideways sail of a snowmobile trailer and not feeling one single downshift. I like the steady surge of power accelerating with a load behind me, knowing there’s more to give if I ask. I like having this magic exhaust brake button I can push that feels like I throw an anchor off the back of the trailer when I let off the accelerator. I like barely being able to hear the truck doing it’s thing as I’m driving normally. 

You made the right choice.  I like the extra 8 grand in my pocket!

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StevePT Enthusiast

StevePT

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Posted
6 hours ago, diyer2 said:

Is this truck a daily driver?

Or just used to pull the TT and haul, tow occasionally?

If so gaser IMO.

From the sounds of it a 6.0 HD will getter done.

 

:)

No not a daily driver, sits in the driveway most weeks. Weekend vehicle and towing

StevePT Enthusiast

StevePT

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Posted
7 hours ago, i82much said:

Actually I did some more reading and I think this is essentially inaccurate.  Check out these two graphs:

 

https://www.gmpowertrain.com/engines/docs/GMQD16CL860_L83_Product PDF.pdf

 

https://www.gmpowertrain.com/engines/docs/GMQD16CLA60_L96_Product PDF.pdf

 

Look at the numbers from between, say, 2500 RPM to 4500 RPM.  Basically the range you would be in towing a 7000 lb trailer in a hilly area.   I see no real advantage for the 6.0, certainly not enough to overcome 1,000 lbs of extra weight in the 2500HD.  

 

Again, if a 2500HD has a power advantage over a 1500 with a 5.3, it isn't the output of the engine - it is the gearing.  

Very interesting comparing those 2 graphs, thanks for sharing!

Anomaly Enthusiast

Anomaly

Posted
Posted
I came from a crude, thirsty, and gutless (but pristine) 1996 F350 with a 460 into a new 2018 GMC All Terrain HD 2500 Duramax, knowing that the modern gas engines would likely be the better choice.   I don’t drive it daily and I don’t consistently work it hard. 
 
I can fully accept the fact  that modern diesels don’t hold the economic advantage over their gas counterparts that they once did. Perhaps at resale, but that’s about it. I’ve developed the opinion that you either have to WANT or NEED a modern diesel to make it worth the overall cost of ownership. You can pay for a lot of 87 octane with the cost advantage, you just won’t have the same effortless driving experience.
 
I wanted it, plain and simple. I don’t need it. This is my first diesel that I’ve owned, and I wanted the power and control that a gas will never give. I like being able to drive out west heading into the wind with a sideways sail of a snowmobile trailer and not feeling one single downshift. I like the steady surge of power accelerating with a load behind me, knowing there’s more to give if I ask. I like having this magic exhaust brake button I can push that feels like I throw an anchor off the back of the trailer when I let off the accelerator. I like barely being able to hear the truck doing it’s thing as I’m driving normally. 

Great post! My 2018 Midnight Duramax is my first diesel and I agree completing on the whole ‘want vs. need’. We mostly tow a horse trailer and hay. I’m certain that a gas 6.0 would’ve been fine for the jobs. But I like having that huge torque available if needed. Just yesterday we picked up a 100 bales of hay and had to drive through the back paddock to turn around, which still had a foot of snow. The truck did it like it wasn’t even working. I wasn’t ever actually worried that the truck would get stock, more the trailer, but it was like it wasn’t even pulling anything. I’m not suggesting a gas motor would’ve been able to do it. I’m sure it would have. I just like how effortless it is with the Duramax.
f226757f614f312413b2eb5b5a4585c6.jpg


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ewbldavis Enthusiast

ewbldavis

Posted
Posted
On 3/7/2019 at 6:13 PM, Icutmetl said:

I came from a crude, thirsty, and gutless (but pristine) 1996 F350 with a 460 into a new 2018 GMC All Terrain HD 2500 Duramax, knowing that the modern gas engines would likely be the better choice.   I don’t drive it daily and I don’t consistently work it hard. 

 

I can fully accept the fact  that modern diesels don’t hold the economic advantage over their gas counterparts that they once did. Perhaps at resale, but that’s about it. I’ve developed the opinion that you either have to WANT or NEED a modern diesel to make it worth the overall cost of ownership. You can pay for a lot of 87 octane with the cost advantage, you just won’t have the same effortless driving experience.

 

I wanted it, plain and simple. I don’t need it. This is my first diesel that I’ve owned, and I wanted the power and control that a gas will never give. I like being able to drive out west heading into the wind with a sideways sail of a snowmobile trailer and not feeling one single downshift. I like the steady surge of power accelerating with a load behind me, knowing there’s more to give if I ask. I like having this magic exhaust brake button I can push that feels like I throw an anchor off the back of the trailer when I let off the accelerator. I like barely being able to hear the truck doing it’s thing as I’m driving normally. 

True dat. I have to throw in "I like the feeling of the extra $5k in my pocket" :)  Sorry lol - all meant in good spirit!

Icutmetl Enthusiast

Icutmetl

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, ewbldavis said:

True dat. I have to throw in "I like the feeling of the extra $5k in my pocket" :)  Sorry lol - all meant in good spirit!

I’m sure it’s more than $5k, too- no need to apologize!

i82much Enthusiast

i82much

Posted
Posted

i don’t tow heavy, i hunt way deep in the idaho back country, and i absolutely hate going to the dealer for warranty service.  i am also a tightwad and debt averse.  so i bought the cheapest, longest-lasting truck i could - a 6.0 work truck.  

 

for a lot of people, that would feel like settling.  for me, i got 30k for my trade and only paid 35 for the new truck, so i wound up with no loan whatsoever.

 

i like the way heated seats and gobs of torque feel, but i like the feeling of vinyl floors and no truck payment a lot better.

bshort Enthusiast

bshort

Posted
Posted

I pull a travel trailer that is around 6k loaded.  I had a 15 2500 with the 6.0.  Got 7.5 towing the flat lands.  It would pull in the mountains, but would have to tach 4500 or so to maintain 35mph on grades.  Traded for a 16 diesel and it's night and day difference.  I'm considering stepping down to a 1/2 ton, now that the transmissions have a few more gears in em.                                                                                                                   

2016HD Enthusiast

2016HD

Posted
Posted

For those that keep saying that a 6.0 has to be at 4500rpm to pull the hills!!   YES THEY DO. ITS a gas engine with a peak torque output at 4500 rpm and Peak HP output at 5200-5500 rpm.  This is the way small block gas engines get shit done!!   Its not a diesel with a RPM limit of 3000 with peak torque at 15-1800,

I've owned 350 ci and 6.0 litres for years and Now a 2016 l96 variant.  

Gas mileage while towing?? Not gunna happen. However its not that bad considering the price of 87 octane vs Diesel!.  

I tow a 6500 lb travel trailer with the box fully loaded with Dirt bikes, Generator, 12ft alum boat. Extra gas gear wife Kid and 2 dogs. It will pull the Coquihalla in B.C one of the steepest longest pulls around.  I crest the summit at 55mph foot 3/4 down and 4500-5000rpm.  Trans temp barely moves in 35c middle of summer. 

Would a diesel do it quicker? Yes but not buy much. and you can watch the trans and exhaust gas temps start to climb if its got a decent load. 

Dont try this with any 1500 either as the payload wont cut it especially with the trailer connected along with the fact the trans and diffs are not meant for sustained RPM and loaded towing. 

 

Sorry bit of a rant.   Diesel= More torque slightly better fuel mileage.  Worth the extra cost??? Not unless you use it daily and tow over 9000lbs plus cargo as far as i am concerned. 

 

Gas = Less initial $$  Less fuel $$ Less maintenance $$  Gets warmer faster in winter , fuel doesnt gel until colder temps.  Much easier to work on in your driveway, Pending you actually have to. 

Wont get there as fast but will still get there in time for the First beer!  :)

 

 

jerseytaylor Enthusiast

jerseytaylor

Posted
Posted

i'll be honest. I have a 2015 6.0 and she moves 22x14's and 37's with relative ease. took it back and forth on a 2k mile road trip. trip mpg calculator said 13-15 the entire time. Granted, I know that isnt always the most accurate, and I may drive much slower than a lot of people, but regardless, I am very happy with this 6.0 motor for exactly all the reasons 2016HD just stated above.

CRApex Enthusiast

CRApex

Posted
Posted

For me I simply enjoy driving the diesel power is awesome.  I rarely look at mpg and get a large chunk of the initial cost back in trade value. Not to mention the Allison transmission.  Nothing wrong with a 6.0 it will get the job done too.

bshort Enthusiast

bshort

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, 2016HD said:

For those that keep saying that a 6.0 has to be at 4500rpm to pull the hills!!   YES THEY DO. ITS a gas engine with a peak torque output at 4500 rpm and Peak HP output at 5200-5500 rpm.  This is the way small block gas engines get shit done!!   Its not a diesel with a RPM limit of 3000 with peak torque at 15-1800,

I've owned 350 ci and 6.0 litres for years and Now a 2016 l96 variant.  

Gas mileage while towing?? Not gunna happen. However its not that bad considering the price of 87 octane vs Diesel!.  

I tow a 6500 lb travel trailer with the box fully loaded with Dirt bikes, Generator, 12ft alum boat. Extra gas gear wife Kid and 2 dogs. It will pull the Coquihalla in B.C one of the steepest longest pulls around.  I crest the summit at 55mph foot 3/4 down and 4500-5000rpm.  Trans temp barely moves in 35c middle of summer. 

Would a diesel do it quicker? Yes but not buy much. and you can watch the trans and exhaust gas temps start to climb if its got a decent load. 

Dont try this with any 1500 either as the payload wont cut it especially with the trailer connected along with the fact the trans and diffs are not meant for sustained RPM and loaded towing. 

 

Sorry bit of a rant.   Diesel= More torque slightly better fuel mileage.  Worth the extra cost??? Not unless you use it daily and tow over 9000lbs plus cargo as far as i am concerned. 

 

Gas = Less initial $$  Less fuel $$ Less maintenance $$  Gets warmer faster in winter , fuel doesnt gel until colder temps.  Much easier to work on in your driveway, Pending you actually have to. 

Wont get there as fast but will still get there in time for the First beer!  :)

 

I can pull the same grade at 70 with the diesel, as opposed to 35 with the 6.0.  Get 5 mpg more towing with the diesel.  I've actually towed with both.  

 

KMK454 Enthusiast

KMK454

Posted
Posted

Gas 1500 vs gas 2500 is more about suspension and brakes. The 5.3 and 6.2 1500 motors are very strong, especially with the appropriate gearing. But there's a thing people forget: payload. I took my 6.0 2500 over the Eisenhower pass with about 7500lbs in tow, another 1000lbs in the bed, and my entire family in the cab. From a payload perspective, that would be over the 1500's rating (but interestingly not its tow rating). The truck was comfortable and fine up and down hill. Yes, passenger cars cut me off requiring me to apply lots of throttle and force downshifts for some high-RPM driving to regain traffic speed, but it wasn't crazy - as mentioned above, gas motors use RPMs more than diesels. 

 

gallery_128418_2520_631290.jpg

 

Is the diesel better? It depends. It has more power, better gas mileage, and more capability. It's also far more expensive and, partly due to modern emissions equipment, is more complicated than a traditional gas motor. The diesel gas mileage will help costs at the pump, but you will have to drive a LOT to recoup the initial investment of buying the diesel. If you're not constantly driving and towing and amassing tons of miles, the math doesn't work out. You probably don't need it... but if you want it, that's different. And if you want to do a cool build that blows up the internet, you better have a diesel. 

 

If I was buying a new diesel, I'm not sure I'd get an L5P; I'd either go used 15-16 LML or look at Ford. The Silverado HD now appears on consumer reports least reliable vehicles and my guess is it's because of the 2017+ L5P. The L5P facebook page I follow has post after post after post regarding drive train issues. But who knows how much stock to put in this...

https://www.autoblog.com/photos/the-five-least-reliable-cars/#slide-7456212

 

large.5a3c9ecf64af8_kurtkphoto2500HD.jpg

2016HD Enthusiast

2016HD

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, bshort said:

 

What is your point. I covered that in my post. Diesel get more mpg but not enough to make up the initial costs and repairs.  And like i said Diesel will pull it faster but not buy a huge margin.  Its personal preference!!  

but dont rag on a gas engine because of RPM when that is what they are designed to do. 

Another point- Yes the 1500 engines are as strong or stronger than the 6.0l.  But They will not live at those rpms while fully loaded for the same time as an HD truck.  Not tested or designed to do so Also not setup with the cooling reguired for sustained Load.  

 

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