18 5.3 Oil Change interval

[Grinkly]

4 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

You wouldn’t have too much to worry about. According to your numbers you’re really old or drive a lot.

 

 

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Well, maybe it's padding my vehicle count but I count all the vehicles I've bought for my wife and kids over the years (especially if I maintained them)  

[KARNUT]

 
Well, maybe it's padding my vehicle count but I count all the vehicles I've bought for my wife and kids over the years (especially if I maintained them) [emoji6] 

I figured you fudged a bit, I ran the numbers. Just ribbing a bit.


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[Colossus]

On 11/13/2019 at 5:51 PM, Jacoby said:

Fuel additives do nothing for these motors

Wanna bet? 

 

This stuff works pretty good

https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/gasoline-fuel-system/bg-44k-fuel-system-cleaner/

 

But if you don't want a fuel additive, use this stuff.  Pour in about 10 min before an oil change (follow instructions)
https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/engine/bg-epr-engine-performance-restoration/

 

Several shops around here are using this stuff (BG makes the best additives out there and they WORK, all you who don't believe it can go pound dirt!) And I've seen great results MYSELF. 

 

 

[mookdoc6]

14 hours ago, gone_fishing said:

I have always followed the OLM down to around 5% or so. This is where you usually get the "change oil soon" message. Usually comes out to around 7,300 miles. I have primarily used Mobil 1 in 0W-20 AFE but also 0W-20 EP, 0W-30 AFE and standard 5W-30. I have had a few UOA's done from Blackstone and have never seen any issues.

 

 

Data raw data!  Like a juicy steak?  Long, long legs?  Yeah, I get down on data!  Great Job Mate!

[CamGTP]

Why is there a thread like this every other week?

[Grumpy Bear]

44 minutes ago, Colossus said:

Wanna bet? 

 

This stuff works pretty good

https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/gasoline-fuel-system/bg-44k-fuel-system-cleaner/

 

 

 

 

IMHO what works well is their marketing. 

 

The BG products 44K: 

1,2,4-trimethylbenzene in 1 - 5%, ( a neurotoxin soluble in ethanol) 

Naphtha hydrotreated heavy 15 - 40% ( hydrotreated atmospheric column straight run heavy gasoline)

Stoddard solvent  10 - 30% (paint thinner / dry cleaning solvent) 

Naphthalene  0.5 - 1.5. (double benzene ring used in mothballs)

 

 Roughly 25% or more of the mixture is undisclosed which is interesting as the  MSDS states after the above EPA reportable list: There are no additional ingredients present which, within the current knowledge of the supplier and in the concentrations applicable, are classified as hazardous to health or the environment and hence require reporting in this section.  In other words, inert ingredients. I don't know what those might be as even water is EPA MSDS reportable. 

 

That eliminates both PEA and PIBA amines and hydrocarbons and alcohols. This stuff is Techron without an Amine at twice the price.  

[Grumpy Bear]

 

 

FYI

 

BG EPR MSDS ID #109 May 4, 2016

 

HYDROTREATED LIGHT PARAFINIC DISTILLATE 60 - 100% (C9 -C16 carbon length  aka Kerosene) A viscosity breaker. 

 

CYCLOHEXANONE 10 - 30% (aka Cellosolve aka 2-ethoxyethanol is originally from Union Carbide (WIKI) As with other glycol ethers, 2-ethoxyethanol has the useful property of being able to dissolve chemically diverse compounds. It will dissolve oils, resins, grease, waxes, nitrocellulose, and lacquers.^[3] This is an ideal property as a multi-purpose cleaner, and, therefore, 2-ethoxyethanol is used in products, such as varnish removers and degreasing solutions. This is the major active ingredient.  

 

ETHYLENE GLYCOL MONOPROPYL ETHER 7 - 13% aka propyl cellosolve and used as above.  

 

How many times have I been burned at the stake for mentioning the use of Kerosene in motor oil????? 

 

Here's the thing about a product like this. You have to have varnish and gum to need it. IF you change your oil often enough, never over heat it and use an oil with a high 'natural' detergency varnish will NEVER  accumulate to being with. 

 

That said it is a BG product I would use IF I needed it. Cellosolve is available form Hatch Chemical but at the price the BG is more cost effective at over $20 for 100 ml of the Hatch product. Well and it's nasty stuff. Worth a note. Cellosolve likes to dissolve rubbers as well as varnish and gum. Just say' n. 

[Jacoby]

On 11/13/2019 at 6:57 PM, Jacoby said:

Correct. A fuel additive is fine every now and then to keep the injectors clean but it will do nothing for carbon buildup. Need a top end cleaner for that. 
 

I do oil changes every 5k

 

7 hours ago, Colossus said:

Wanna bet? 

 

This stuff works pretty good

https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/gasoline-fuel-system/bg-44k-fuel-system-cleaner/

 

But if you don't want a fuel additive, use this stuff.  Pour in about 10 min before an oil change (follow instructions)
https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/engine/bg-epr-engine-performance-restoration/

 

Several shops around here are using this stuff (BG makes the best additives out there and they WORK, all you who don't believe it can go pound dirt!) And I've seen great results MYSELF. 

 

 

Yes let’s bet please. How does a fuel system cleaner clean the ports and valves of carbon buildup on a direct injection motor when the injector sprays fuel directly into the combustion chamber?  I’ll give you all the time you need to answer

 

if you would have seen my other post above I agreed a fuel system cleaner is good every now and then for the injectors. 

[Cowpie]

15 hours ago, TXGREEK said:

 

That’s great, now try comparing this same amount of mileage using Amsoil Signature Series and then compare the two. Better yet, try running 10K miles on Amsoil Signature Series, then compare the two.

My recommendation is for EVERYONE to use what they can afford and what works best for them, don’t take my word for it. Mobil1 Annual Protection is an excellent oil, I just want the maximum protection available between my oci’s.


Sent from Above

 

 

The big question then becomes, what does one base their decision on what oil is offering the maximum protection?   There are two different things going on...  which oil will hold up longer vs which oil offers the maximum protection.  The two are not always lock step with each other.  And how one determines that is not only what brand or the base oil being used in the formulation.   And price is not always a good indicator either. There are some "store brands" that compete very favorably in performance with the glossy ad name brand oils.  

 

For instance, M1 Annual compared to Quaker State syn, both in 0w20.  The NOACK (burn off rate) is lower with the QS compared to the M1.  The add pack in the QS is stronger.  So then  which do you think might offer the better protection?  And  in the spirit of full disclosure, I don't use either one of these brand oils, or any of the brand oils I mention here. I just did a quick look up of the data on each oil from the independent Petroleum Quality Institute of America for comparison.   Even Walmart's Supertech 0w20 and Amazon Basics 0w20 has numbers that compete well with M1 Annual and the QS.  

 

Even some conventional oils have numbers that put even boutique, high ticket oils to shame.  Pennzoil conventional 30 weight has a lower NOACK (burn off rate) than Amsoil's Signature 30 weight and The Pennz competes well with the additive package in it.  PQIA even retested the results to see if they made a goof.  They didn't.

 

You are correct though... whatever oil one choose that fits their budget and serves the purpose.  Whatever helps one sleep well at night.

 

 

[TXGREEK]

  The big question then becomes, what does one base their decision on what oil is offering the maximum protection?   There are two different things going on...  which oil will hold up longer vs which oil offers the maximum protection.  The two are not always lock step with each other.  And how one determines that is not only what brand or the base oil being used in the formulation.   And price is not always a good indicator either. There are some "store brands" that compete very favorably in performance with the glossy ad name brand oils.  

 

For instance, M1 Annual compared to Quaker State syn, both in 0w20.  The NOACK (burn off rate) is lower with the QS compared to the M1.  The add pack in the QS is stronger.  So then  which do you think might offer the better protection?  And  in the spirit of full disclosure, I don't use either one of these brand oils, or any of the brand oils I mention here. I just did a quick look up of the data on each oil from the independent Petroleum Quality Institute of America for comparison.   Even Walmart's Supertech 0w20 and Amazon Basics 0w20 has numbers that compete well with M1 Annual and the QS.  

 

Even some conventional oils have numbers that put even boutique, high ticket oils to shame.  Pennzoil conventional 30 weight has a lower NOACK (burn off rate) than Amsoil's Signature 30 weight and The Pennz competes well with the additive package in it.  PQIA even retested the results to see if they made a goof.  They didn't.

 

You are correct though... whatever oil one choose that fits their budget and serves the purpose.  Whatever helps one sleep well at night.

 

 

 

Remember now, boutique oils are not all alike as no over the counter oil is alike but the highest amounts of additives is the most important. Will a boutique oil save everyone’s motor? NO! But one things for sure, you just cannot cure stupid!

 

Last I checked, Mobil1 Annual protection was $12per quart at Auto Zone which is more than Amsoil Signature Series and $49 for a 5 quart jug which makes it same price as Amsoil and that’s a no brainer there. But, in the end, everyone is different, most buy based on price and not quality as Full Synthetics are not real 100% synthetic, thinking everything is the same.

 

In the end, Buy what you can afford and what works for you.

 

Sent from Above

 

 

[Cowpie]

1 hour ago, TXGREEK said:

Remember now, boutique oils are not all alike as no over the counter oil is alike but the highest amounts of additives is the most important. Will a boutique oil save everyone’s motor? NO! But one things for sure, you just cannot cure stupid!

 

Last I checked, Mobil1 Annual protection was $12per quart at Auto Zone which is more than Amsoil Signature Series and $49 for a 5 quart jug which makes it same price as Amsoil and that’s a no brainer there. But, in the end, everyone is different, most buy based on price and not quality as Full Synthetics are not real 100% synthetic, thinking everything is the same.

 

In the end, Buy what you can afford and what works for you.

 

Sent from Above

 

 

 

Personally, I would never buy a full synthetic that is 100% true synthetic.

 

I will grant the Group III "synthetics" are not synthetic in the truest sense, but the quality between Group III "faux" synthetic and Group IV PAO synthetic is so minor that there is no appreciable difference in performance except in some  niche applications.   To argue about Group III not being true synthetic as to imply it is inferior is a red herring.  In actuality, there are some properties where Group III EXCEEDS the capability of Group IV PAO "true" synthetic.  The same can be said of Group V Esters.   They each bring something special to the party, but  they each have pros and cons.   I would suggest that the best full synthetic motor oil for the average user is one that is a blend of Group III and Group IV.  Matter of fact, all the motor oils I use are a blend of Group III and Group IV.

 

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/533/base-oil-trends

 

According to that article from Machinery Lubrication, a trusted industry publication, Group III "faux" synthetics actually out perform Group IV in additive solubility, lubricity, and anti-wear performance.

[Grumpy Bear]

Lord ( I don't have a shake my head emoji)

 

2 hours ago, Cowpie said:

 

The big question then becomes, what does one base their decision on what oil is offering the maximum protection?   There are two different things going on...  which oil will hold up longer vs which oil offers the maximum protection.  The two are not always lock step with each other.  

 

Cliff....that is a nail struck squarely on the head and driven all the way home with one strike.

 

 

As on point as that statement is; people will continue to believe that this is a matter of opinion. It isn't, it's a matter of chemistry. 

 

25 minutes ago, Cowpie said:

I will grant the Group III "synthetics" are not synthetic in the truest sense, but the quality between Group III "faux" synthetic and Group IV PAO synthetic is so minor that there is no appreciable difference in performance except in some  niche applications.   To argue about Group III not being true synthetic as to imply it is inferior is a red herring.  

Your thinking is refining...good! NOT inferior...just different properties. Excellent! 

 

However saying one base is "superior' to another without providing the reference is missing the point once again. Your using niche and different as if they are interchangeable and frankly I understand how such a thought gets in a fellas head but....

 

Your also using the word quality as if stands on it's own as a property of the base oil. And again without reference. In what way? By what measure? What I believe, and I may be wrong, you're trying to say is that the physical properties between Groups of oils are nearly nonexistent. Or at least inconsequential. 

 

If I'm on the money then I would ask why one would even blend a Group III with a POA if the Group III qualities and performance (are) "is so minor that there is no appreciable difference in performance"?

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, TXGREEK said:

Remember now, boutique oils are not all alike as no over the counter oil is alike but the highest amounts of additives is the most important. 

 

Surely you don't believe that, right? Confused? In the heat of the moment? Right? 

 

One adds an additive to enhance a property or to provide a property that is missing. Think of adding sugar to coffee. Once you have your taste for sweet satisfied is more better? How much antifoam, for example, is needed to prevent foaming? Once that requirement is met, is more better? 

[KARNUT]

I find these types of discussions very informative and entertaining. Being involved in many years of extreme testing with synthetics in extreme environments. The oil such as Amsoil, Redline types oils are must. As far as normal use vehicles in normal uses just about any recommended oil will do the job. Especially changing the oil at or under 5000 miles. One thing I learned from these discussions. Sometimes I was spending more money then I needed to on top shelf oil. At lower oil change intervals cheaper oil was more than enough. Kinda like going to a bachelor party with one purpose. And bringing crown royal, when the store brand will do.


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[flyingfool]

i've had an old 1990 suburban with 250,000 miles on it when it was sold and was still running great. had it for 27 years . never ran synthetics just uses 180 t-stat and penzoil 10w-30 in it and changed oil every 4000 miles.  yet the inside of the motor was covered in a brown crusty coating of  oil coked on the block ,it never hampered its functionality.  I think we're all getting a little Crazy on synthetics when no one really ownes thier cars more than 8 years. if it wasn't for high engine temps, Cylinder deactivation, and VVT devices, if it wasn't for these factors there would be no reason to use it in our cars , most cars are flipped off after 4-7 years