Grumpy Bear's All-Encompassing 2019/2020 GM Truck Hatred Thread

the wanderer · August 28, 2020

29 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I admit to no such thing. I live in cruise control. I run a bit under the speed limit most of the time but I employ no hypermilling techniques. I just drive it. No punch and glide. NO dead sticking. Just drive.

No need to shout. You posted above:

Quote

I've taken pains to reduce frontal area (lowered) and minimize rolling resistance and internal friction. I can keep it often in the smallest box at 55 mph. Second smallest box at 62 mph and I have no interest in anything higher.

Driving 55 is definitely hypermiling in most people's books, as is "minimizing rolling resistance". The point is, you're taking pains to get the most mpg out of your truck. Most people don't, so for a true apples to apples comparison (and this is my main point, not whether you're hypermiling or not): You have to drive your current truck, and you have to drive a new 2019, drive them the same way, at the same speed, on the same roads, in the same conditions; then compare. Saying you get X while other users get Y, does not mean their truck is necessarily worse (or far worse), much of your gains in mpg is due to your driving style and usage and because you're driving what is basically a stripped down shell.

flyingfool · August 28, 2020

2 hours ago, the wanderer said:

Completely incorrect. Your engine has a small range where it is making peak power (say for example, 5500 RPMs). If you have 4 gears in your truck, the second you upshift you drop out of your power band and "whomp", there goes your power.

If you have 10 gears, each shift drops you from 5600 to 5200, keeping you right in your peak range. The less gears you have, the more you drop between shifts.

Again, go watch this on YouTube, it's explained very easily using charts, math and whiteboards.

ok .... you can stay in the same power band with a 4 speed. just change your final gear ratio.. it's all about fuel efficiency with the new GM transmissions, not power

Grumpy Bear · August 28, 2020

3 hours ago, the wanderer said:

No need to shout. You posted above:

Driving 55 is definitely hypermiling in most people's books, as is "minimizing rolling resistance". The point is, you're taking pains to get the most mpg out of your truck. Most people don't, so for a true apples to apples comparison (and this is my main point, not whether you're hypermiling or not): You have to drive your current truck, and you have to drive a new 2019, drive them the same way, at the same speed, on the same roads, in the same conditions; then compare. Saying you get X while other users get Y, does not mean their truck is necessarily worse (or far worse), much of your gains in mpg is due to your driving style and usage and because you're driving what is basically a stripped down shell.

Not shouting. Making points stand out. Yea, my typing etiquette needs some brushing up. We use to highlight before people decided it was shouting. Sorry.

So anything that is not 10 over the limit is hypermiling? Yea, not in my book. Speed limit is Illinois on primary roads is 55. On the interstate it is 'between' 45 and 70 mph.

Minimizing rolling resistance isn't hypermiling. Really? Making sure your tires are at sticker pressure? Choosing a slippery oil? Assuring your alignment is correct? That is what I do to minimize rolling resistance. Nearly everyone here alters ride height.

Then we will do this. You follow me in yours and on the return I follow you in mine.

Peoples unwillingness has got nothing to do with the trucks ability, right? If they wan't to run low air pressure and ignore oil maintenance and alignments that isn't on me to prove.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · August 28, 2020

Have to run out to pick up dinner. Be back later.

the wanderer · August 28, 2020

37 minutes ago, flyingfool said:

ok .... you can stay in the same power band with a 4 speed. just change your final gear ratio.. it's all about fuel efficiency with the new GM transmissions, not power

Changing the gear ratio is completely irrelevant (because it has the same effect on both a 4/6 and a 10 speed; it will give more power to each gear, (multiplies torque) and less MPG in the final gear (revs are higher now then they were before), so it doesn't change anything as far as 4 vs 10 gears goes)

Moving from a 4/6 to a 10 speed is about both power and efficiency. It's both. You're not thinking this through.

When is a truck most efficient? Low rpms. So you want to always be as low as possible in the RPMs, while making "just enough" power to do the job. More gears means when you downshift for slightly more power, you can downshift to a lower RPM (with 10 gears) than you can with a 4/6 speed, without having to rev way up. If you have a 4 speed, a downshift jumps way up in the rpm range. With a 10 speed, a single downshift is just a few hundred (maybe 400) rpms, that might be all you need to do to make the power you need, so therefore any higher than that is wasteful and inefficient.

When is a truck making most power? High up, usually around 5000+ rpms. Under WOT (ie needing max power) having more gears allows you to keep your revs as close as possible to that single peak HP spot.

Did you watch the Engineering Explained YouTube videos on CVT's? You should watch them. CVT's are the ultimate transmission for both power and efficiency. Under WOT, it holds your RPMS at peak HP, with no transmission shifting dips. Under coasting/steady driving, it keeps your RPM's as low as possible, just enough to do the job and without revving higher than needed.

A 30 speed transmission would be pretty much identical to CVT; 1 gear for every 170 rpms. We don't have that.

20 speeds would be almost as good; 1 gear for every 260 rpms, don't have that either.

10 speeds is next best, 1 gear for every 520 rpms, we do have that.

8 is worse, 6 is even worse, and 4 is absolutely dismal (1 gear for every 1300 rpms).

Edited August 28, 2020 by the wanderer

the wanderer · August 28, 2020

27 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Not shouting. Making points stand out. Yea, my typing etiquette needs some brushing up. We use to highlight before people decided it was shouting. Sorry.

So anything that is not 10 over the limit is hypermiling? Yea, not in my book. Speed limit is Illinois on primary roads is 55. On the interstate it is 'between' 45 and 70 mph.

Minimizing rolling resistance isn't hypermiling. Really? Making sure your tires are at sticker pressure? Choosing a slippery oil? Assuring your alignment is correct? That is what I do to minimize rolling resistance. Nearly everyone hear alters ride height.

Then we will do this. You follow me in yours and on the return I follow you in mine.

Peoples unwillingness has got nothing to do with the trucks ability, right? If they wan't to run low air pressure and ignore oil maintenance and alignments that isn't on me to prove.

Again you missed my point. I knew you'd try and drag me down into the weeds with a discussion on hypermiling. Let's stay focused here.

My point, very clearly stated, was that you can't compare you driving your truck vs another driver driving their truck, and then say your truck is so much more efficient. Read the rest of my post above yours, not going to type it out again.

And enjoy your dinner

Grumpy Bear · August 29, 2020

3 hours ago, the wanderer said:

Again you missed my point. I knew you'd try and drag me down into the weeds with a discussion on hypermiling. Let's stay focused here.

My point, very clearly stated, was that you can't compare you driving your truck vs another driver driving their truck, and then say your truck is so much more efficient. Read the rest of my post above yours, not going to type it out again.

And enjoy your dinner

But that is exactly what I am saying. I can read. Doesn't mean I agree.

By paying attention to the big things you can make a big difference. Alignment, tire pressure, oil maintenance.

Let's do this another way that maybe will be clearer. You give me a truck, any truck with a history and I will improve on that history just from the seat. Granted. I can fly the plane and even the box it came in. Then give me a few months with it to learn it and massage it and it will do even better.

That said when all the chips are cashed Pepper will still get better mpg than any NA gasoline powered T1. You thinking it is all me certainly is an ego stroke but it just isn't true. I'm not that special. I am that well trained. They made an incremental improvement in efficiency then gave it and about 3% more away in drag. They eliminated the RCSB.

They changed the very nature of the truck and most of it to the wrong side of the ledger and kept the same power plants changing only what will help the city cycle.

Peoples habits are choices. Matters not if it's how fast they drive, how quickly they brake, how often the check tire pressure, how ****** they are about alignments or...and or...and or. It's a choice, not a state of grace and it isn't magic.

Here's hypermiling. I buy a set of Bridgestone Duller 684 II two sizes under and have them shaved to 6/32 then match balanced them and run them at 40 psi. I put the truck in the dirt. Add a tail wing with a Gurney flap and a belly pan. I run Lake Moon's and a box tail. Fab an aero cover for the box. Would have never Line-X'd it. Run skirting. Run a cab foil. Then.....Drive 35 mph in 5th gear where it now gets over 40 mpg. Dead stick it over hills and run with the grade brakes off. Run pan heaters on both the oil and ATF and Diff. Pump and glide over the moguls. I'd run a Marathon chip and keep that AFM on 95% of the time. Run 15 wt oil....your getting this right?

I don't hypermile. I drive like a mature adult. You know like someone that values his property more than his jollies. The fact that the majority choose to do others is not going to penalize Pepper.

Not one thing on this list can't be done to a T1 and stroke for stroke I couldn't drive that T1 to Peppers numbers with a gun to my head. It just isn't in the design.

Philipgonzales3 · August 29, 2020

11 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

But that is exactly what I am saying. I can read. Doesn't mean I agree.

By paying attention to the big things you can make a big difference. Alignment, tire pressure, oil maintenance.

Let's do this another way that maybe will be clearer. You give me a truck, any truck with a history and I will improve on that history just from the seat. Granted. I can fly the plane and even the box it came in. Then give me a few months with it to learn it and massage it and it will do even better.

That said when all the chips are cashed Pepper will still get better mpg than any NA gasoline powered T1. You thinking it is all me certainly is an ego stroke but it just isn't true. I'm not that special. I am that well trained. They made an incremental improvement in efficiency then gave it and about 3% more away in drag. They eliminated the RCSB.

They changed the very nature of the truck and most of it to the wrong side of the ledger and kept the same power plants changing only what will help the city cycle.

Peoples habits are choices. Matters not if it's how fast they drive, how quickly they brake, how often the check tire pressure, how ****** they are about alignments or...and or...and or. It's a choice, not a state of grace and it isn't magic.

Here's hypermiling. I buy a set of Bridgestone Duller 684 II two sizes under and have them shaved to 6/32 then match balanced them and run them at 40 psi. I put the truck in the dirt. Add a tail wing with a Gurney flap and a belly pan. I run Lake Moon's and a box tail. Fab an aero cover for the box. Would have never Line-X'd it. Run skirting. Run a cab foil. Then.....Drive 35 mph in 5th gear where it now gets over 40 mpg. Dead stick it over hills and run with the grade brakes off. Run pan heaters on both the oil and ATF and Diff. Pump and glide over the moguls. I'd run a Marathon chip and keep that AFM on 95% of the time. Run 15 wt oil....your getting this right?

I don't hypermile. I drive like a mature adult. You know like someone that values his property more than his jollies. The fact that the majority choose to do others is not going to penalize Pepper.

Not one thing on this list can't be done to a T1 and stroke for stroke I couldn't drive that T1 to Peppers numbers with a gun to my head. It just isn't in the design.

Just build your own RCSB... problem solved. Lol

https://carbuzz.com/news/this-is-the-gmc-sierra-shorty-that-gm-wont-build

AlaskaErik · August 29, 2020

5 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Someone laughed at my roll up windows. Ya know I never replaced a manual window regulator/motor!

And I've never replaced a power window regulator/motor.

mookdoc6 · August 29, 2020

5 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I haven't done anything to Pepper anyone else couldn't do with equal means. But there are things I've done to Pepper than just won't work on a T1 because:

1.) Frontal area

2.) Locked out PCM/TCM

3.) Vastly more complicated.

4.) Lack of current supplies and parts.

Give it a few years and maybe I'll look at a 3.Oh.

That is what I am talking about! 3.0 baby their is your 7 mains Grumps! I could pop the hood on a K2 4.3l ,5.3l, 6.2l and stare at em all day and probably would eventually figure out that one was a v6? The others nope and don't even care. I think Auto Express window up/down is annoying and troublesome why somebody would allow the feature. I think Blacked out anything is for retards? I sniffed around the T1's opened the door "chuckled" at what I saw. Grabbed the "A" pillar grab handle and CONFIRMATION it's cheaper than it looks....But wait there is more! I proceeded to slap my cheeks down on the leather and "LIGHT BULB" more horrible than a 65 Vette they beat the worst possible seating arrangement on Planet EARTH. I digress......then I remembered I buy GM for Engines/Transmissions....Cool, they did me right by putting 1pc integral cast aluminium oil pans puts a smile on my face.

Now, Must find a way to stuff 3.0 with 10speed into my K2

Edited August 29, 2020 by mookdoc6

JimCost2014 · August 29, 2020

This pot needs to be stirred a little more, best sounding V6 hands down, Italians know a "growling" engine....

JimCost2014 · August 29, 2020

1 hour ago, mookdoc6 said:

Must find a way to stuff 3.0 with 10speed into my K2

There will be "organ" donors soon enough with all of the distracted drivers on the road. Start checking the local salvage yards, new build thread coming soon, since there is no new TV to watch anytime soon....

the wanderer · August 29, 2020

10 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

But that is exactly what I am saying. I can read. Doesn't mean I agree.

By paying attention to the big things you can make a big difference. Alignment, tire pressure, oil maintenance.

Let's do this another way that maybe will be clearer. You give me a truck, any truck with a history and I will improve on that history just from the seat. Granted. I can fly the plane and even the box it came in. Then give me a few months with it to learn it and massage it and it will do even better.

That said when all the chips are cashed Pepper will still get better mpg than any NA gasoline powered T1. You thinking it is all me certainly is an ego stroke but it just isn't true. I'm not that special. I am that well trained. They made an incremental improvement in efficiency then gave it and about 3% more away in drag. They eliminated the RCSB.

They changed the very nature of the truck and most of it to the wrong side of the ledger and kept the same power plants changing only what will help the city cycle.

Peoples habits are choices. Matters not if it's how fast they drive, how quickly they brake, how often the check tire pressure, how ****** they are about alignments or...and or...and or. It's a choice, not a state of grace and it isn't magic.

Here's hypermiling. I buy a set of Bridgestone Duller 684 II two sizes under and have them shaved to 6/32 then match balanced them and run them at 40 psi. I put the truck in the dirt. Add a tail wing with a Gurney flap and a belly pan. I run Lake Moon's and a box tail. Fab an aero cover for the box. Would have never Line-X'd it. Run skirting. Run a cab foil. Then.....Drive 35 mph in 5th gear where it now gets over 40 mpg. Dead stick it over hills and run with the grade brakes off. Run pan heaters on both the oil and ATF and Diff. Pump and glide over the moguls. I'd run a Marathon chip and keep that AFM on 95% of the time. Run 15 wt oil....your getting this right?

I don't hypermile. I drive like a mature adult. You know like someone that values his property more than his jollies. The fact that the majority choose to do others is not going to penalize Pepper.

Not one thing on this list can't be done to a T1 and stroke for stroke I couldn't drive that T1 to Peppers numbers with a gun to my head. It just isn't in the design.

This quote from you is what I'm refering to:

Quote

You let me know whose T1 DMF 5.3 has pulled a single tank at 29 mpg. I'm all ears. In fact I'll take a 4.3 T1's results.

All I'm saying, is that "whose T1" is not fair; it has to be a T1 that you have been driving in order to compare it to your 29 mpg. I didn't say 2019's could match or exceed your current Pepper, just that in order to make a fair comparison, the test has to be conducted by the same person on the same roads under the same usage... and it has to be a similarly equipped truck, because yours is stripped down so far it looks like it escaped the factory on lunch break. Weight kills MPG.

The rest of your post is just wandering in circles, I ain't arguing against any of that whatsoever; just that you need to compare apples to apples.

Grumpy Bear · August 29, 2020

36 minutes ago, the wanderer said:

This quote from you is what I'm refering to:

All I'm saying, is that "whose T1" is not fair; it has to be a T1 that you have been driving in order to compare it to your 29 mpg. I didn't say 2019's could match or exceed your current Pepper, just that in order to make a fair comparison, the test has to be conducted by the same person on the same roads under the same usage... and it has to be a similarly equipped truck, because yours is stripped down so far it looks like it escaped the factory on lunch break. Weight kills MPG.

The rest of your post is just wandering in circles, I ain't arguing against any of that whatsoever; just that you need to compare apples to apples.

Okay now you gave me something I can work with. Cool! Who is volunteering their 5.3 T1. Wander gets to choose the model. I am up for that. Just not enough to buy one. But okay if the point is just that I can better it, that can be done.

Now for the 'stripped' comment. Didn't I say she is over weight? That I added about 500 pounds. Yea, it's a WT1 but they still make those. Hey....how about a T1 WT1 5.3 RCLB. With the 500 pound factory weight reduction they should be pretty close. Heck, If I'm still underweight I toss some sandbags in her. Hey if you want find a 4.3 T1 donor.

Now of the 'stripped' reference is just that it is the WT1 then yea, It's a choice. A point you seem to be missing is everything about your personal ride is choice and those choices effects it's efficiency. It effects it's look, it's length of service. You are part of the things you own and maintain.

But hey, if you think I'm really so good that I can elevate the national average 17 mpg to 28 just on my driving skills and Pepper has nothing to do with it.....I'l wear that cape.

Make the field as level as you like. Put your finger on the scale and the T1 will still not cut the mustard in down the road fuel efficiency. It's just to large.

KARNUT · August 29, 2020

The vehicle in question has been modified for fuel mileage and a car like ride. The mileage is probably 5 MPG over normal. I get better than sticker mileage by soft take offs and anticipating stop lights. The rest is wind drag and weight. It takes modification to effect that. The arguments are just banter.

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