L86 vs LT1 vs LT2

[M1ck3y]

Swapping the LT2 intake manifold over to the LT1 seems to be very popular over on Camaro6. The lt1/msd doesn't really benefit the truck because it looses substantial mid range power with minimal top end gains in a tuned/bolton truck. But I'm wondering if there could be a lot more power to be gained up top with the LT2 intake. Assuming it could be modified to work on the L86; I don't know if anyone's attempted it yet. What do you guys think? Could there be an extra 80 horsepower on tap in the upper rev range, or is it purely tuning that's creating this difference in power?

 

 

 

 

 

 

                L86

 

 

     L86 vs ported msd (full boltons/e85)

 

  

[CamGTP]

You'd need to swap camshafts/valve springs too, the truck camshaft isn't going to make power way out there.

[M1ck3y]

6 minutes ago, CamGTP said:

You'd need to swap camshafts/valve springs too, the truck camshaft isn't going to make power way out there.

Yeah, its not an apples to apples comparison.. I'm just thinking the Camaro guys seem to be making power gains across the board with tuning (I'll try and find it). I think the LT1 has the same cam as the L86??

 

It does  really make me wonder if all that mid range power is just being moved up top. Its difficult to figure out because there all tuned differently stock. And it looks like the truck has massive gains everywhere compared to the msd with tuning...

Edited October 17, 2020 by M1ck3y

[newdude]

18 minutes ago, M1ck3y said:

Yeah, its not an apples to apples comparison.. I'm just thinking the Camaro guys seem to be making power gains across the board with tuning (I'll try and find it). I think the LT1 has the same cam as the L86??

 

It does  really make me wonder if all that mid range power is just being moved up top. Its difficult to figure out because there all tuned differently stock. And it looks like the truck has massive gains everywhere compared to the msd with tuning...

 

Same cam p/n for LT1 and L86.  The crazy thing is even from Gwatney Performance, with their mods (if needed) its 1/3 of the price of an MSD intake and yet would take care of the vast majority of intake customers on the market, except for those maybe in the need of really high RPM power/boost, where the MSD would work better.  

Edited October 17, 2020 by newdude

[M1ck3y]

3 hours ago, newdude said:

 

Same cam p/n for LT1 and L86.  The crazy thing is even from Gwatney Performance, with their mods (if needed) its 1/3 of the price of an MSD intake and yet would take care of the vast majority of intake customers on the market, except for those maybe in the need of really high RPM power/boost, where the MSD would work better.  

Right! I wonder if msd will come out with a manifold for the C8. I think there's tons of room for one? It'd be nice if they went to town and made one that puts out some real power. Or an edelbrock crossram, power across the board. 

 

Here's the dyno of camaro lt1 vs lt2. Gains aren't as high as I thought they would be, but not bad. 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by M1ck3y

[truckguy82]

Just keep in mind

 

sports car intake mani’s are designed with hood clearance being a huge issue

 

not a factor with truck

[SILVER SLED]

45 minutes ago, truckguy82 said:

Just keep in mind

 

sports car intake mani’s are designed with hood clearance being a huge issue

 

not a factor with truck

The mid engine C8 has a ton of “ hood” clearance.  

[flyingfool]

i've seen a vid on yt , swapping in the LT cars manifold, complete waste of time.. you have to also order a re-angle TB adapter. and machine your own relocation serp pulley.  then you got yourself a revver manifold on a motor that needs more torque upgrades  than HP upgrades.  might as install the 6.2 cam

 

just do a full 6.2 induction from the TB, Manifold, remove restrictor panel from airbox, 6.2 Cam, and a set of Doug thorly tri-y torque headers.

Edited October 20, 2020 by flyingfool

[M1ck3y]

GPI got back to me. I guess they tried the intake on a stock 5.3. It made the same power and lost torque in the mid range (real shocker). But, it fits! I think most of their business is 5.3 owners, so unfortunately I don't think they'll test a 6.2 with mods..

Edited October 20, 2020 by M1ck3y

[flyingfool]

factory spent MIlions of dollars in R and D on manifold design, along come the grease monkies who think they can out think the factory guys , lol

[Grumpy Bear]

11 hours ago, flyingfool said:

factory spent MIlions of dollars in R and D on manifold design, along come the grease monkies who think they can out think the factory guys , lol

X2

 

I watched a video recently on POWERNATION where they pulled 70 hp. out of a motor with a manifold swap. Made me smile. I loved tuning in those days. It was the last of several modifications to the motor each done one at a time then dyno tested. They decided from the previous runs when the next step would be. They decided on an intake/carb when the dyno dash reported that the motor was pulling crazy high vacuum at WOT from mid torque to peak power. 9 inches!! Talk about air starved. 

 

This motor was an industrial version of a very common truck motor, the 300 Ford I6. Power gains of this magnitude are nearly impossible today. OEM's are matching not just flow potential now but flow quality as well. GDI demands a very specific delivery. Not just a volume. This 6 on propane version was just that awful. 

 

Hook your scanner up and go for a ride. Log the MAP v rpm. Your going to find an amazingly small number. One hard to improve on. IMO naturally. 

 

Power density of GDI motors comes at such low rpm that to actually gain NOTABLE power the RPM limit will need a substantial gain OR your going to have to use power adders. 

 

I'm not saying you can't make MORE power with addons but I am saying you are not going to get the gains that were once available. And what you can gain wont be 'NOTABLE". Okay, if your really young and easy to impress maybe...

 

Working with motors from the 50's/60's I've more than doubled the power of a factory supplied motor using nothing but the parts it came with. Those days are long gone. The motor was a Royal Enfield Bullet. 12 rwhp stock. 28 rwhp with just shuffling some parts, a nip here and a tuck there. 

[flyingfool]

airflow simutation software has a huge hand in the design of modern intake systems. the amount of money that went into these programs is NASA budget...

 

the fact that the old stuff could make so much more power back in the old days was the whole point of hot rodding... the future for rodding looks dead, now you can order the new electric Hummer , it comes stock with 1000hp and 11,000 ft lbs or torque. not much to improve on or upgrade anymore... i see little grandmas driving 400hp cars these days, i cant even pass the blue hairs anymore..

Edited October 21, 2020 by flyingfool

[KARNUT]

airflow simutation software has a huge hand in the design of modern intake systems. the amount of money that went into these programs is NASA budget...
 
the fact that the old stuff could make so much more power back in the old days was the whole point of hot rodding... the future for rodding looks dead, now you can order the new electric Hummer , it comes stock with 1000hp and 11,000 ft lbs or torque. not much to improve on or upgrade anymore... i see little grandmas driving 400hp cars these days, i cant even pass the blue hairs anymore..

Most everything performs well these days. My last new truck I just tuned the transmission and added E-85. The drivability was greatly improved. I laugh when people say the 4.3-5.3s are slow. My blue haired wife’s car is quicker than my 70 396 Chevelle was.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[M1ck3y]

I can't say I disagree with anyone, but I imagine manufactures build intake manifold's based on the engine and a target power output, efficiency concerns etc. I think a more, "powerful" manifold is always possible, but with draw backs; increase in size, increase in fuel/emissions etc.

 

The LT2 has a slightly different cam profile, but it appears that manifold is good for 22 rwhp on that camaro. Great for them, not so much for the trucks though.

[JONBLARC7]

I'm been think about doing this mod to my truck since I can spin mine up a-little higher with my cam and ported heads.  Here is a good video on what needs to be done to make it work with a with our tucks.   It's doesn't look all that bad to me.