Trans Pan Drop and Refill or Fluid Flush?

[BlancoSilverado]

Ok, 

 

This might be a long one, so strap in. 

 

I have a 2019 silverado with the MQE transmission (8L90e). I am close to 30k miles and want to at least do a pan drop and filter change. I contacted Holley/B&M and I will be their person to verify that the transmission pan will work on the new trucks.  

 

This is my issue, my truck was built in January 2019, there was an update to the transmission fluid in late 2019, I have contacted my local dealer, my buddy that works in the parts department said that the fluid is backwards compatible, i then talked to a service adviser (dont know this person) they said that the fluid is NOT backwards compatible and if I only do the 6-8 quarts it can void my warranty, I would have to do the flush. I never had any issues with a shutter on my truck and do not want to make the wrong call. I seem some people do the flush that doesnt fix a problem and they have to swap the transmission out but they were having problems going into the dealer anyways. 

 

Can (hopefully someone that works for GM) let me know if I would be fine with just doing a pan drop/filter? 

[ericarenee]

Do you tow or haul heavy loads with your Truck?  30 k seems quite early for  fluid and filter change 

[Black02Silverado]

It will be fine to just do the pan drop and add the new fluid back.  The only issue is that the new fluid will mix with the old and so the benefit of having the new fluid to prevent the shudder will not be there.  That is why the do the full exchange.  To get the old fluid out as much as they can.  I would recommend doing the complete exchange of fluid.  

 

It is my understanding that GM had to step up to a high quality fluid to help fix the shudder problem.  If they would have provided a better product to begin with they wouldn't have this issue in the first place.

 

If you wanted to do a full exchange with AMSOIL's ATL, ATF let me know and I can send a quote via PM to you.

 

[redwngr]

Looks like the fluid change may have been sooner than you're thinking.

This was published in Jan 2019. 

 

You may  likely already have the new Mobil 1 Synthetic LV ATF HP transmission fluid  (and it may be why the truck doesn't have the issue.)

 

https://gm-techlink.com/?p=11127 

 

TCC Shudder and New Mobil 1 Fluid Exchange

January 31, 2019

A new transmission fluid exchange procedure and a new formula of Mobil 1 Synthetic LV ATF HP transmission fluid have been released to address torque converter clutch (TCC) shudder conditions on 8L45 and 8L90 8-speed automatic transmissions (RPOs M5N, M5T, M5U, M5X) in some 2015-2017 Escalade, Yukon; 2015-2018 Silverado, Sierra; 2015-2019 Corvette; 2016-2018 CT6; 2016-2019 ATS, CTS, Camaro; and 2017-2019 Colorado and Canyon models.

The new fluid exchange procedure requires the use of the DT-45096 TransFlow Cooler Flush Machine and DT-52263 Transmission Fluid Exchange Tool Kit. (Fig. 10) The tool kit began shipping to dealerships at no charge in late January 2019. All GM dealerships should receive the tool kits by the end of March 2019.

Fig. 10

 

Shudder Test

The new service procedure addresses shake and/or shudder conditions during light throttle acceleration between 25 and 80 MPH (40 and 128 KM/H) at a steady speed when the transmission is not shifting gears. To ensure TCC shudder is diagnosed correctly, drive the vehicle on a smooth road with transmission sump temperature between 122°F (50°C) – 158°F (70°C). Constant throttle input on a smooth grade is needed.

A shudder condition may also be a chuggle, surge or vibration condition. Use GDS 2 or the CH-51450 PicoScope to confirm that the concern is TCC shudder and not a tire/wheel vibration or a driveline vibration, for example. A screen print from GDS 2 or the PicoScope showing the TCC shudder event must be attached to the Repair Order hard copy. (Fig. 11)

If TCC shudder is present, a vibration peak will appear within +/- 2 Hz of the frequency listed in Bulletin #18-NA-355. Refer to the bulletin for additional information, including required shudder test conditions for each vehicle being diagnosed as well as the fluid exchange procedures.

Fig. 11

 

Fluid Exchange

The TCC shudder condition is related to moisture content in the transmission fluid. The current fluid tends to be hydroscopic, or absorbs moisture, which increases the chance of TCC shudder. There are three different fluid exchange procedures to follow, depending on vehicle application, so that an acceptable concentration of the new HP fluid is achieved in the transmission.

The new Mobil 1 Synthetic LV ATF HP transmission fluid is now available to U.S. dealerships through your local GM Oil Distributor. The new Mobil 1 Synthetic LV ATF HP transmission fluid is available in quart bottles (GM Part Number 19417577) and, for a limited time, in 55-gallon drums (GM Part Number 19417904) (Fig. 12) in most locations. Drum production ended in January 2019. The GM part numbers are not on the product. The Mobil 1 Synthetic LV ATF HP fluid and the required tool kit will be available to all Canadian dealerships by the end of March 2019. GM Part Numbers for 0.946 liter bottles will be provided at that time.

Fig. 12

 

TIP: Mobil 1 Synthetic LV ATF HP transmission fluid is required for all 8-speed transmission repairs regardless of the repair being completed.

Quart bottles, which can be identified by a new blue banner across the front of the bottle (Fig. 13), will be limited to 20 cases/120 quarts per dealer per week during the initial launch of the new product. The new bottles also feature the HP license number J-62120 on the back label. The use of the black label Mobil 1 Synthetic LV ATF HP fluid (GM Part Number 19355656) should be discontinued.

 

 

Fig. 13

 

For a video demonstration of the new fluid exchange procedure, check out the December 2018 Emerging Issues Broadcast, course number 10218.12V, available through the Center of Learning. In Canada, refer to the January 2019 TAC Talk seminar.

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by redwngr

[bshort]

Drain and refilling twice would be considered a complete exchange of fluid 

[BlancoSilverado]

From what i understand, the new fluid (blue label) didn't come out until late 2019. I believe, i had the older revision (black label) fluid installed from factory?

 

I asked my buddy to do a little more research on the mixing and there is multiple service that can be done to the transmission (removing/ reinstalling valve assembly, replacing the servos,...ect) that allow to just replace the pan fluid with the newest fluid (right now blue label).

 

[newdude]

5 hours ago, BlancoSilverado said:

Ok, 

 

This might be a long one, so strap in. 

 

I have a 2019 silverado with the MQE transmission (8L90e). I am close to 30k miles and want to at least do a pan drop and filter change. I contacted Holley/B&M and I will be their person to verify that the transmission pan will work on the new trucks.  

 

This is my issue, my truck was built in January 2019, there was an update to the transmission fluid in late 2019, I have contacted my local dealer, my buddy that works in the parts department said that the fluid is backwards compatible, i then talked to a service adviser (dont know this person) they said that the fluid is NOT backwards compatible and if I only do the 6-8 quarts it can void my warranty, I would have to do the flush. I never had any issues with a shutter on my truck and do not want to make the wrong call. I seem some people do the flush that doesnt fix a problem and they have to swap the transmission out but they were having problems going into the dealer anyways. 

 

Can (hopefully someone that works for GM) let me know if I would be fine with just doing a pan drop/filter? 

 

 

I would drain and fill twice to get as much of the old fluid out if you've never had the dealer do it since you want to DIY it yourself.  The two are compatible fluids, but it would be safer to get as much to prevent any chance of shudder down the line from the older fluid.  

 

March 1st 2019 was the change over date at the plant to Blue label HP factory fill.  Anything prior has the old stuff unless you've taken it to the dealer for the fluid exchange procedure.  

 

19417577 is the Blue label HP that you need.  Service guy is just trying to sell you a trans service through the dealer.  

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by newdude

[BlancoSilverado]

1 minute ago, newdude said:

 

 

I would drain and fill twice to get as much of the old fluid out if you've never had the dealer do it since you want to DIY it yourself.  The two are compatible fluids, but it would be safer to get as much to prevent any chance of shudder down the line from the older fluid.  

 

19417577 is the Blue label HP that you need.  Service guy is just trying to sell you a trans service through the dealer.  

 

Ok, makes sense to do a double drain /fill. Hopefully the new pan B&M PN:70396 fits well and will make the drain and fill much faster and with less of a mess.

 

I was also thinking that he was selling a service but wasn't sure.

[redwngr]

7 hours ago, BlancoSilverado said:

From what i understand, the new fluid (blue label) didn't come out until late 2019. I believe, i had the older revision (black label) fluid installed from factory?

 

 

OK, but GM published the document in Jan 2019...

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by redwngr

[BlancoSilverado]

17 hours ago, redwngr said:

OK, but GM published the document in Jan 2019...

 

The TSB was updated in July 2020, I do not know what the update included. 

[RWTJR]

4 hours ago, BlancoSilverado said:

The TSB was updated in July 2020, I do not know what the update included. 

The July 08, 2019,  update of 18-NA-355, update removed all diagnostic and/or PicoScope testing. With that update if the vehicle falls within the production period stated in the TSB AND the vehicle owner complains of shudder than the flush should be done without any other confirmation or diagnosis needed.

 

"Revised July 08, 2019 - Updated the Warranty Information section, removed all of the Diagnostic and Pico testing information."

 

However, TSB #18-NA-355 only applied to 2015 through 2018 Silverado/Sierra model years. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10163890-9999.pdf

 

TSB #: 19-NA-121, Dated April 2020,, applies to 2019 model year Silverado/Seirras and states,  "Diagnosis beyond the customer compliant is not required if vehicle was built prior to production dates indicated above." (March 01, 2019)  https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10174268-9999.pdf

 

March 01, 2019, GM officially started using the newest fluid during production (or so I'm told).

 

Bottom Line: 2015 through 2019 model years (built before March 01, 2019), should get the flush/fill with the newest fluid IF, and only if, the vehicle owner complains of "shudder". Neither TSB covers hard shifting, delayed engagement, etc. History has shown if someone reports these other issues a dealership may use it as an excuse to refuse the flush/fill. So if someone wants the flush fill with the newest fluid, they must complain of "shudder".

 

JMHO

No expertise implied or expressed

Edited December 18, 2020 by RWTJR
Correct Date

[flyingfool]

TCC shudder is caused by poor tuning of the lock up coverter,   Take to a tuner immediatly and have them disable lock up from 1st-6th gear on the A8 where it will expericance less cycling , less torque and longest  lifespan..

Edited January 14, 2021 by flyingfool

[bjr2020 6.2]

On 12/18/2020 at 10:33 AM, flyingfool said:

TCC shudder is caused by poor tuning of the lock up coverter, not enough TCC pressure apply,  Take to a tuner immediatly and have them disable lock up until 7-8th gear where it will expericance less cycling , less torque and longest  lifespan..

I agree hptuners and changing the lockup of the torque converter was only way to fully solve the issue on my 2015. I understand this isn’t a option for everyone but it’s worth it in my opinion.

Edited December 23, 2020 by bjr2020 6.2

[HistoryTeacher2020]

I've had the "clunk," or "shudder," incident twice. I am not hearing of any recalls from my dealership (6mos old truck). I would rather just replace the fluid rather than going through a transmission that fails later on. Also, how do I find what specific 8-speed transmission (number) I have? Please assist. Thank you.

[Bigfoot98]

IMHO I would do the fluid flush at the dealer if you were concerned about needing one, especially since you were advised about voiding the warranty. Also while the vehicle is under the power train warranty I would refrain from putting an aftermarket pan and filter in the transmission, if you start having problems down the road then they may try to say it was due to alteration of the transmission. But if it doesn't worry you then go for it. After all it is your vehicle.