OCI, not when but why?

[PunchT37]

Pretty simple. Keep your chemistry correct for your application. Keep your particulates down. Keep a decent HTHS [parts separation], and one will have a happy old engine.

 

True story.

[OnTheReel]

5 hours ago, Chuck FB said:

 

While its not like I have any personal data to draw on other than what I come across online, I too have wondered with my L8T, what is the most logical approach to the engines health AND at the same time maintaining my wonderful GM warranty. While it may fly in the states to use oils that are said to meet a certain spec ( Dexos 1 Gen 3, or its the DexosD in your case ) , if it doesn't carry the actual license it becomes an issue here in Canada from how the dealer is telling me. 

 

So my view point based off of the picture I am faced with here, is that if I had a 3.0 I would more than likely initially stick with the DexosD licensed 0W-20 and change it plenty often and certainly during the break in stages as it sure can't hurt anything. Because of the soot factor and the potential for the fuel dilution the 3.0 seems to have issues with, that also helps reinforce the concept of no matter what oil is used, get that soot and diesel diluted oil out of there by changing it a lot more often then the oil change minder would call for. Unfortunately no matter how much one would spend on a high end oil of the same viscosity as GM calls for, it can't help but get contaminated with soot and raw diesel fuel. If the unit was deleted, yes that would take care of a lot of the soot contamination issues and the diesel dilution ... and wave bye bye to your warranty. They got us all by the balls no matter what brand of vehicle one buys !. 

I find voiding warranties to be very freeing. Makes it easier to do the right thing when your own wallet is on the table. Besides, have you seen the service these dealers give people? If they had to replace an engine on something I owned, I’d 100% trade that vehicle in as soon as they were done because I know it would be scrap.
 

Local dealer completely destroyed my 2019 Silverado during various “repairs”, most of which required multiple visits to get done correctly. Then stupid me, I give them another shake on my Ram to replace a shock under warranty. 1 trip to diagnose, 1 trip to replace, and then 1 trip to replace again. Idiots installed it backwards the first time and ruined a $1200 part. Only consolation was the dealer had to eat that cost.
 

But no more. No thank you. I avoid buying stuff with proven junk engines (like the GM 6.2), and fix stuff myself if it fails.

[PunchT37]

1 minute ago, OnTheReel said:

I find voiding warranties to be very freeing. Makes it easier to do the right thing when your own wallet is on the table. Besides, have you seen the service these dealers give people? If they had to replace an engine on something I owned, I’d 100% trade that vehicle in as soon as they were done because I know it would be scrap.
 

Local dealer completely destroyed my 2019 Silverado during various “repairs”, most of which required multiple visits to get done correctly. Then stupid me, I give them another shake on my Ram to replace a shock under warranty. 1 trip to diagnose, 1 trip to replace, and then 1 trip to replace again. Idiots installed it backwards the first time and ruined a $1200 part. Only consolation was the dealer had to eat that cost.
 

But no more. No thank you. I avoid buying stuff with proven junk engines (like the GM 6.2), and fix stuff myself if it fails.

Ding ding ding. You stole my next post. Follow warranty and have a failed engine. Do things your way and never have your engine fail under warranty.

[customboss]

Proper dipstick check/ wipe technique 

Discuss 

 

 

 

[Chuck FB]

2 hours ago, OnTheReel said:

I find voiding warranties to be very freeing. Makes it easier to do the right thing when your own wallet is on the table. Besides, have you seen the service these dealers give people? If they had to replace an engine on something I owned, I’d 100% trade that vehicle in as soon as they were done because I know it would be scrap.
 

Local dealer completely destroyed my 2019 Silverado during various “repairs”, most of which required multiple visits to get done correctly. Then stupid me, I give them another shake on my Ram to replace a shock under warranty. 1 trip to diagnose, 1 trip to replace, and then 1 trip to replace again. Idiots installed it backwards the first time and ruined a $1200 part. Only consolation was the dealer had to eat that cost.
 

But no more. No thank you. I avoid buying stuff with proven junk engines (like the GM 6.2), and fix stuff myself if it fails.

 

I know what you mean and it used to be that components were not nearly as expensive, now looking at prices of a reman 10L1000 in US dollars is crazy and I would hate to think what wiping out a Duramax and having to put in a new engine would cost. Then there is the computer on wheels aspect, unless a person has had a background in diagnosing and taking these jigsaw interiors apart to replace failed parts, most people are at the whim of either a dealership ( and hope to hell someone has been trained and knows what they are doing and don't cause collateral damage ) or an independent shop and again I can see so many things going sideways touching anything these days. That's part of the reason I want to do general maintenance myself if I am able to so that some bottom of the totem pole person just hired on for that position isn't jacking around ruining things that don't need touching and that I know 100% as to what oil actually went into it engine or driveline wise. And of course the theme these days or so I have been lead to believe that often the vehicles that have a front end that requires greasing just doesn't get done. 

 

That reminds me, someone from the Chev dealership had called and left a message the other day and said they had not seen me for 8 months ( in service anyway I am guessing as I was in there buying filters a few weeks ago ) as I had them do a realignment because the steering wheel orientation was off from the factory and the only time my truck has been in their shop so far. What they were flogging on the message was a "premium maintenance package" for the mere sum of 300.00 and she said that included an oil change and battery health check and a tire rotation and probably some other so many point "check". I have never brought my truck there for any maintenance so a Carfax would show zero maintenance. 

 

My only wonder about my truck is if it has some goofy updates that GM claims needs doing and that its already past due and that could allow them to void a warranty. I don't understand the update system, if its able to work with a weak signal off of a cell tower or what and I have never had a device ( phone ) connected to the truck and don't have an onstar subscription. I have hit the button on the infotainment screen for it to find updates and did that the other day in the yard and it said there were no updates so I don't know if its connecting or not. I also have it set so that it will only install the updates when I say yes and nothing has ever come up on the screen to say anything about a downloaded update ready to install. Maybe 2025 trucks are perfect out of the factory 

 

I wonder if that is some typical maintenance package that anyone on here has been quoted for in the states as I am curious what the price difference would be down there vs here ?

[diyer2]

I have said this for a long time: "The takeaway, which he gets to at the end, is changing oil more frequently keeps oil cleaner and reduces wear."

[Atlas]

10 hours ago, Chuck FB said:

 

I know what you mean and it used to be that components were not nearly as expensive, now looking at prices of a reman 10L1000 in US dollars is crazy and I would hate to think what wiping out a Duramax and having to put in a new engine would cost. Then there is the computer on wheels aspect, unless a person has had a background in diagnosing and taking these jigsaw interiors apart to replace failed parts, most people are at the whim of either a dealership ( and hope to hell someone has been trained and knows what they are doing and don't cause collateral damage ) or an independent shop and again I can see so many things going sideways touching anything these days. That's part of the reason I want to do general maintenance myself if I am able to so that some bottom of the totem pole person just hired on for that position isn't jacking around ruining things that don't need touching and that I know 100% as to what oil actually went into it engine or driveline wise. And of course the theme these days or so I have been lead to believe that often the vehicles that have a front end that requires greasing just doesn't get done. 

 

That reminds me, someone from the Chev dealership had called and left a message the other day and said they had not seen me for 8 months ( in service anyway I am guessing as I was in there buying filters a few weeks ago ) as I had them do a realignment because the steering wheel orientation was off from the factory and the only time my truck has been in their shop so far. What they were flogging on the message was a "premium maintenance package" for the mere sum of 300.00 and she said that included an oil change and battery health check and a tire rotation and probably some other so many point "check". I have never brought my truck there for any maintenance so a Carfax would show zero maintenance. 

 

My only wonder about my truck is if it has some goofy updates that GM claims needs doing and that its already past due and that could allow them to void a warranty. I don't understand the update system, if its able to work with a weak signal off of a cell tower or what and I have never had a device ( phone ) connected to the truck and don't have an onstar subscription. I have hit the button on the infotainment screen for it to find updates and did that the other day in the yard and it said there were no updates so I don't know if its connecting or not. I also have it set so that it will only install the updates when I say yes and nothing has ever come up on the screen to say anything about a downloaded update ready to install. Maybe 2025 trucks are perfect out of the factory 

 

I wonder if that is some typical maintenance package that anyone on here has been quoted for in the states as I am curious what the price difference would be down there vs here ?

 

The good news is that the interior plastics are better than ever, and replaceable clips on panels have been a thing for a long time now. In 30 years of design the same tool is still used for re-assembly (fist) so at least GM adapted things. It's not like the brittle plastics of the 90's/00's where interiors are single-use. Interior R&I is actually the least of my dealer service worries these days.

 

I'd definitely want to know exactly what services were included for $300 on a maintenance package. If it's "just" an oil change and tire rotation, no thanks...I can do that at home. I think the menu price on an oil change is something like $159 at the dealer here in the US for those two things (plus "visual inspection" items), but they're always running specials and coupons. I've never paid for an oil change (or received one) at a dealer. My oil changes are free for life. It's a benefit I'll never use, sadly, because I have trust issues. Also, driving 20 miles out of my way just for an oil change at that dealer isn't worth it to me.

 

On other vehicles I've paid for things like coolant flushes, power steering flushes, brake fluid flushes. They're usually around $150 each and, IMO, worth the time and headache versus doing it at home.

 

Re: software updates, typically the only ones you have to worry about from a warranty perspective are ones mentioned in recalls. Those updates are usually not done through the infotainment system and involve reprogramming or flashing a specific module with a service tool.

 

There was an infotainment software update that got interrupted when they were delivering my truck to me, and it caused the infotainment system to brick and it would only display a red exclamation point. The sales guy was kind of freaking out, probably thought I'd ding him on his survey--I had already told him I don't do that, he was fine. I wasn't worried, said it probably just needs a hard reset, take your time. He took it over to the service bays and they disco'd the battery. The truck rebooted back into the software update mode and we let it install the update and finish without interruption. Easy peasy.. but man that sales guy was sweating it.

[diyer2]

[Chuck FB]

24 minutes ago, Atlas said:

 

The good news is that the interior plastics are better than ever, and replaceable clips on panels have been a thing for a long time now. In 30 years of design the same tool is still used for re-assembly (fist) so at least GM adapted things. It's not like the brittle plastics of the 90's/00's where interiors are single-use. Interior R&I is actually the least of my dealer service worries these days.

 

I'd definitely want to know exactly what services were included for $300 on a maintenance package. If it's "just" an oil change and tire rotation, no thanks...I can do that at home. I think the menu price on an oil change is something like $159 at the dealer here in the US for those two things (plus "visual inspection" items), but they're always running specials and coupons. I've never paid for an oil change (or received one) at a dealer. My oil changes are free for life. It's a benefit I'll never use, sadly, because I have trust issues. Also, driving 20 miles out of my way just for an oil change at that dealer isn't worth it to me.

 

On other vehicles I've paid for things like coolant flushes, power steering flushes, brake fluid flushes. They're usually around $150 each and, IMO, worth the time and headache versus doing it at home.

 

Re: software updates, typically the only ones you have to worry about from a warranty perspective are ones mentioned in recalls. Those updates are usually not done through the infotainment system and involve reprogramming or flashing a specific module with a service tool.

 

There was an infotainment software update that got interrupted when they were delivering my truck to me, and it caused the infotainment system to brick and it would only display a red exclamation point. The sales guy was kind of freaking out, probably thought I'd ding him on his survey--I had already told him I don't do that, he was fine. I wasn't worried, said it probably just needs a hard reset, take your time. He took it over to the service bays and they disco'd the battery. The truck rebooted back into the software update mode and we let it install the update and finish without interruption. Easy peasy.. but man that sales guy was sweating it.

 

The inference of the service call and the explanation was to either call or come in and they would fully explain the so called maintenance package which would mean I would be there and more than likely with my vehicle and therefore more apt to have them do the service because I was there ( that was my vision of how it would go or that they would hope it would go ), they certainly weren't doing it for my health I am pretty sure LOL. Of course what they would not know is that I had just changed my oil fairly recently and have few miles on it, that I had also put on my set of winter tires/wheels at home and have zero need for anyone to be touching the lug nuts or the engines oil drain plug. 

 

I wonder if during that amazing 300.00 ( oh wait, it was "299.95" ) service if they for example would be checking the fluid level and condition of the front diff, the transfer case and the rear diff and that if I had not added oil to the rear diff right after I brought the truck home, would they have added oil to bring it up from the 1 inch down level that it came from the factory with. 

 

I have not used the two free oil changes from corporate GM that I believe that the offer ends two years after the purchase and I don't plan on using them as that just gets me into their maintenance loop theme and that doesn't interest me. 

 

I have a feeling that the sales guy you were dealing with had not been there for years as otherwise I would tend to think he would have had less worry but explained there was a glitch and assure you they would get right on that and sort that out, also demonstrating that he was able to snap his fingers and get action from the dealership to "make it right" for the customer. The weird thing is that I was told different times that I should expect to get a survey because of this or that but I never was presented with one. I have to wonder if they emailed it to my salesmans special junk email address, even the others in the dealership were clueless about the salesman's tactic as I don't get any stupid reports when I have set off my tpms sensors etc because it would all go to his junk email as corporate GM doesn't have my email address ( his special little service for guys like me that are so ass backwards and don't want to hear anything about some crap GM's eye in the sky is spying on me about ). 

[Atlas]

6 minutes ago, Chuck FB said:

I wonder if during that amazing 300.00 ( oh wait, it was "299.95" ) service if they for example would be checking the fluid level and condition of the front diff, the transfer case and the rear diff and that if I had not added oil to the rear diff right after I brought the truck home, would they have added oil to bring it up from the 1 inch down level that it came from the factory with. 

 

Total revenue opportunity, oldest trick in the book. Take some of your differential oil, smear it on a white piece of paper and say, "look, it's dirty!" You should change that, it's only 199.95 per differential and we recommend doing both!

 

It's debatable if they actually care about the level if they find it low, or if they just crack the plug to get some schmutz to smear on a card for you.

[KARNUT]

I used the dealership on some services on my Hondas. I do some easy stuff myself. I have two quick lubes I’ve vetted. I’m over oil changes. I can watch the work in progress. Both my Hondas the transmission service is easy. I do those every 30K miles. Three drains and flushes. I bought a good evacuation system I use on power steering and other easy service. Filters are easy I do those unless I have a coupon. Sometimes those coupons make it cheaper for them to do it than myself. I get a chuckle when people say they don’t trust the dealer. The fact that can do things themselves for service. Should make checking on service centers easy for mistakes. The biggest reason I like the dealership and some service centers is the check list. I can track and schedule for wear items. Ultimately for at least 20 years I’ve used the same few dealerships for sales and service. Building relationships does help for preferred service. Especially if you send business their way. 

[Chuck FB]

Here's an item I saw lately and I was shocked at the extremely high calcium level on the UOA but had not looked at the date of the sampling test until now as I dug up that video. The guy who's youtube channel it is, understanding some of what he says is a challenge or at least for me but anyway its Amsoil SS 0W-20 in what appears to be a Toyota 5.7 engine but the sample test was done at the beginning of 2018 so as I now realized and not a current UOA or therefore a current oil formulation. At the time I first saw the video I was blown away by the huge calcium number of 3800 ppm but I assume that the current formulation of SS would fall in line to under the limit for LSPI ? 

 

Why he is showing a UOA from 8 years ago and presenting it as current by not pointing out its presumably an older oil formulation, good question other than just flogging a youtube video for views with all his drivel before and after showing the UOA. The testing does have some of the added tests I see with acid number, base number, oxidation and nitration and I wouldn't mind if anyone with experience in dissecting the numbers could give their take on it. The gist of the video with the UOA starts at 5:00 and ends at 8:40 to skip the drivel.  And like I say, assuming the oil is formulated differently now would mean the same test would end in a possible different result in some area's. 

 

 

[Chuck FB]

3 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

I used the dealership on some services on my Hondas. I do some easy stuff myself. I have two quick lubes I’ve vetted. I’m over oil changes. I can watch the work in progress. Both my Hondas the transmission service is easy. I do those every 30K miles. Three drains and flushes. I bought a good evacuation system I use on power steering and other easy service. Filters are easy I do those unless I have a coupon. Sometimes those coupons make it cheaper for them to do it than myself. I get a chuckle when people say they don’t trust the dealer. The fact that can do things themselves for service. Should make checking on service centers easy for mistakes. The biggest reason I like the dealership and some service centers is the check list. I can track and schedule for wear items. Ultimately for at least 20 years I’ve used the same few dealerships for sales and service. Building relationships does help for preferred service. Especially if you send business their way. 

 

I get what your saying and if one has had good experiences with a dealership and how they do things and don't hire a bunch of screw ups, yes its less hassle for a well equipped shop and a low vehicle is a total pain in the rear to work on unless one had the proper setup at home to deal with it. My brother has had some not so great servicing experiences in the last couple of years with more than one of his vehicles, messes that made it look like his suv was leaking engine oil as they spilled engine oil in the engine compartment and it was oozing out of the plastic belly cover and some other rather unimpressive results on just simple oil changes. Also a Ford dealership that tallied up many thousands of dollars worth of repairs/parts swaps and he declined and brought it to a one man shop that I have also had some work done over the years and my brother showed him that list and he went over my brothers truck and he is a meticulous mechanic and he just shook his head. Rip a new one city all the way is what that was all about and that just puts a big black mark on a dealership once a person has seen crap like that trying to be pulled.   

[KARNUT]

I don’t know if it’s my beautiful imposing physical appearance.Or my knowledge of everything automotive. Or my vetting process. Or my ability to spot B.S. That’s definitely been sharpened after joining this website. Or I’m just lucky. I’ve had very good luck with dealerships.

[Chuck FB]

30 minutes ago, Atlas said:

 

Total revenue opportunity, oldest trick in the book. Take some of your differential oil, smear it on a white piece of paper and say, "look, it's dirty!" You should change that, it's only 199.95 per differential and we recommend doing both!

 

It's debatable if they actually care about the level if they find it low, or if they just crack the plug to get some schmutz to smear on a card for you.

 

While I have not had that done to me because I have never brought a vehicle to a dealership to have gone through that whole maintenance game, I can sure see how any shop that is wanting to upsell can easily do so. Having said that, its very true that most vehicles are not serviced often enough so a good chance the diff oil did need changing ... oh like a hundred thousand miles sooner, there would be that scenario where they pull the same stunt on someone who knows what was just done and its all bull crap. And even go so far as to have a special bottle of old gear oil to sample from to put onto the white paper, I could see some of the scummiest shops out there pull that stunt. Because I put fluid film under my truck, a shop could claim various seals on the driveline are leaking or that my shocks are shot because there is dirty splooge on the body of them. 

 

As per the rear diff, I even had that conversation before I had my truck in my hands with the service manager and he even admitted they had a couple of trucks have their diffs/wheel bearings fail because they were low on oil and claimed they now check the level during the PID, well apparently not my truck as they never touched anything. So that right off the bat did not instill confidence in me, was it the service manager that knew they really would never touch the truck during a PDI or did someone in the shop claim they did something that they didn't do, the end result was that I was lied to. So starting off on a foot like that, how does that instill trust and confidence in that particular shop.