Dealer Invoice Price

'01LS1 · January 10, 2013

I wish vehicles were priced flat out what it costs too, no games. But part of the game that I think Black J was referencing is that banks are willing to finance $30k on a $40k sticker rather than the sticker being say $32K financing the same principal.

Badass69 · January 10, 2013

Import makes in a lot of cases don't have the massive rebates and although they deal and haggle it's usually not $15000 off of sticker..... and financing comes through just fine. Or just like the previous owner of my one truck who I have both the window sticker and bill of sale for. His company paid full MSRP, taxes, and doc fees..... He then proceeded to finance it through GMAC over the course of 5 years no problem.....

Now interest rates and rebates generally are tied together....... but that again is another gimmick favoring the company. Take the low interest rate and you are not able to get the rebates...... or take a higher interest rate and get more rebates..... making it generally come out in a wash. Then again you can get that truck with the rebates, pay cash and just pay that said amount. Then again it also seriously devalues the vehicle when they knock $15000 off the sticker but that's the way it goes.

Doug_Scott · January 10, 2013

I wish vehicles were priced flat out what it costs too, no games. But part of the game that I think Black J was referencing is that banks are willing to finance $30k on a $40k sticker rather than the sticker being say $32K financing the same principal.

Why should a dealer have to show anyone what he paid for the vehicle? I find it odd that anyone even feels they should be entitled to know that. Do you ask your jeweller what his cost was on the ring you just bought for your girlfriend? Or do you expect any other vendor to show their cost before you will buy from them?

The dealership has bills to pay, employees to pay, taxes to pay, and also would like to make a profit to improve his business appearance. Not every person that buys a vehicle takes it back to the dealership for customer pay work, so they do not get the profit from the repairs later on in the vehicles life.

Personally, I decide what I can afford to spend, and buy what I can get that fits my needs. Don't care what dealer paid, does not matter. If I cannot get what I want for what I can pay, then I change my "wants" to be more in line with my "needs". My current truck was listed at $36400, plus taxes and fees(amounting to just under $42k out the door). I paid $28250 out the door. That was after rebates and employee pricing.

music · January 10, 2013

Why should a dealer have to show anyone what he paid for the vehicle? I find it odd that anyone even feels they should be entitled to know that. Do you ask your jeweller what his cost was on the ring you just bought for your girlfriend? Or do you expect any other vendor to show their cost before you will buy from them?

I agree, to a point. It's none of my business what the dealer pays, but it is my concern as to what the vehicle is worth the day after I buy it. Fair market value is all that matters, and the "invoice minus rebates" seems to be a pretty good metric on most vehicles. I have never asked the dealer... I look it up on Edmunds, and price slightly used vehicles to see what they sell for. I'll pay a slight premium for a new vehicle, but I won't pay a lot more than one that has 10k miles on it. The "invoice" isn't really what a dealer pays for a vehicle, but the manufacturers have more-or-less made it the de-facto "real price" on many models. The first words I heard from the sales manager when shopping GM trucks in '08 was "our price is invoice minus rebates, and we'll show you the invoice".

SILVERADOSC540 · January 10, 2013

I wish vehicles were priced flat out what it costs too, no games. But part of the game that I think Black J was referencing is that banks are willing to finance $30k on a $40k sticker rather than the sticker being say $32K financing the same principal.

Bought two Saturn's this way. Simple and quick. None of this "I'll have to talk to my manager" back and forth BS. Guess it worked better for me than it did for Saturn...

Doug_Scott · January 10, 2013

I agree, to a point. It's none of my business what the dealer pays, but it is my concern as to what the vehicle is worth the day after I buy it. Fair market value is all that matters, and the "invoice minus rebates" seems to be a pretty good metric on most vehicles. I have never asked the dealer... I look it up on Edmunds, and price slightly used vehicles to see what they sell for. I'll pay a slight premium for a new vehicle, but I won't pay a lot more than one that has 10k miles on it. The "invoice" isn't really what a dealer pays for a vehicle, but the manufacturers have more-or-less made it the de-facto "real price" on many models. The first words I heard from the sales manager when shopping GM trucks in '08 was "our price is invoice minus rebates, and we'll show you the invoice".

This is where we differ. I am not planning on selling my new vehicle right after I buy it, so the perceived value does not matter. If you are concerned with amount of depreciation a vehicle is going to experience, then buying any new vehicle is not the path for you. If you buy something, and are happy with the price you paid, then you paid exactly what the vehicle was worth to you. I don't care what the next guy pays,or what the guy before me paid. It is not a contest to see who will pay the least amount. Going into the dealer, I know how much I want to spend, and will negotiate to the best of my abilities to get the most for my dollar, but asking to see what he paid is not something I would ever consider asking. Then again, I have been buying from the same salesman since 95.

music · January 10, 2013

This is where we differ.

No problem. I always figure in the initial depreciation on large capital stuff. When I record the transaction, I literally add the debit to a bank account and a credit to the capital item, and then depreciate it. I depreciate "assets" every year. As silly as it may sound, I've been handling my personal finances like that since I was young. I don't do it for small stuff... only big ticket items like vehicles. Doing this pretty much forces me to know the "values", but I don't "worry" about it.

As for new vs used, I've done both, but prefer new because I'm picky, and usually keep them a long time. I've definitely seen the bad side of a poorly maintained used vehicle. FWIW, I've never asked a dealer for cost info, since that seems odd to me. What I actually do is research prices, shop multiple dealers, and let each give me "their price". I'll negotiate w/ the dealer I'm most interested in, and decide whether it's right for me. Very little emotion about it.

'01LS1 · January 10, 2013

Bought two Saturn's this way. Simple and quick. None of this "I'll have to talk to my manager" back and forth BS. Guess it worked better for me than it did for Saturn...

The above is what I was trying to get at Doug_Scott. Was not concerned about the true cost to dealer, just a simple cost to get the thing out the door.

Doug_Scott · January 11, 2013

The above is what I was trying to get at Doug_Scott. Was not concerned about the true cost to dealer, just a simple cost to get the thing out the door.

That is what I was getting at. The only price is the out the door price. I don't care what the break down is, I figure what I want to pay (out the door) and deal from there.