Opening Headlight without Cutting?

Mike1220 · March 10, 2015

I baked my headlights this weekend and now I understand why Phil at Fastheadlights cuts them open. It was a very tedious process to get the lenses off first. Then clearing the perma-seal is another story and I can't repeat the words I used. I lost count how many times I had to put the housing back in the oven to soften the perma-seal enough to scrape it out. I used the butyl from TRS to put the lights back together. It seems like some of the guys that have done this either just simply had lights that weren't as much trouble or they didn't let on that these lights kicked their buts.

The Retrofit itself was pretty simple, although the brackets are printed and crack easy. I need to send some pictures to Phil so he can see what I encountered. It was not a big deal, I mixed up some epoxy as an added measure to ensure the brackets would stay attached to the projector mount.

Do you have any tips for anyone who is looking to do this? I don't want to cut them open and would really rather bake them. Also, how long and how hot did you set the oven at? That could be one reason why it was so difficult.

As far as removing the permaseal and replacing with the OCI butyl, I've given thought to that. I can use my heat gun so I don't have to constantly put them in the oven to soften it

Also would you mind PM'ing me some of those pics so I know where I could encounter problems with the brackets. USPS is a few days late to deliver mine and it's starting to annoy me [emoji16][emoji16]

http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?35908-Lightwerkz-Global-Inc-OEM-HID-Projector-Retrofits-Angel-Eyes-Painting-HID-Systems-Technical-Support-amp-More!&p=728993&viewfull=1#post728993

I found this on hidplanet a while back. Post #1643 and #1645. Lightwerkz uses the Koito butyl rubber sealant to seal them up. On the other hand, I've heard it's hard to work with too.

Fastheadlights Phil likes silicone.

Phil also likes to cut the headlights open. I would really really rather them not be cut open mainly because it leaves obvious damage around the headlight housing. I know that it would not often be seen but it's still the fact that I'll know it's there. Just a mind thing that makes me want to pull the lenses off rather than cut them off.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

brocka · March 10, 2015

Do you have any tips for anyone who is looking to do this? I don't want to cut them open and would really rather bake them. Also, how long and how hot did you set the oven at? That could be one reason why it was so difficult.

As far as removing the permaseal and replacing with the OCI butyl, I've given thought to that. I can use my heat gun so I don't have to constantly put them in the oven to soften it

Also would you mind PM'ing me some of those pics so I know where I could encounter problems with the brackets. USPS is a few days late to deliver mine and it's starting to annoy me [emoji16][emoji16]

Phil also likes to cut the headlights open. I would really really rather them not be cut open mainly because it leaves obvious damage around the headlight housing. I know that it would not often be seen but it's still the fact that I'll know it's there. Just a mind thing that makes me want to pull the lenses off rather than cut them off.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Same here. If and when I change out my projectors, it will be baking vs bassmechanic's "rear-entry method." I'm interested to see more of your FX-R with the LMZ D2S. I enjoy following along, my wife doesn't though.

FastWS6TA · March 10, 2015

Do you have any tips for anyone who is looking to do this? I don't want to cut them open and would really rather bake them. Also, how long and how hot did you set the oven at? That could be one reason why it was so difficult.

As far as removing the permaseal and replacing with the OCI butyl, I've given thought to that. I can use my heat gun so I don't have to constantly put them in the oven to soften it

Also would you mind PM'ing me some of those pics so I know where I could encounter problems with the brackets. USPS is a few days late to deliver mine and it's starting to annoy me [emoji16][emoji16]

Phil also likes to cut the headlights open. I would really really rather them not be cut open mainly because it leaves obvious damage around the headlight housing. I know that it would not often be seen but it's still the fact that I'll know it's there. Just a mind thing that makes me want to pull the lenses off rather than cut them off.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We bake now. Lol. But believe me, after cutting open over 500 lights, lol, you can't tell the difference. Also, some guys who try to bake are going to find that they mutilate the black channel in trying to get open, especially if this is their first battle with permaseal. Ha. Ruin that channel and the likelihood of a leak goes up.

Not sure what happened to Carl's bracket. I think it is a bad print layer perhaps. Glad he made it work though.

whodatfan · March 10, 2015

We bake now. Lol. But believe me, after cutting open over 500 lights, lol, you can't tell the difference. Also, some guys who try to bake are going to find that they mutilate the black channel in trying to get open, especially if this is their first battle with permaseal. Ha. Ruin that channel and the likelihood of a leak goes up.

Not sure what happened to Carl's bracket. I think it is a bad print layer perhaps. Glad he made it work though.

Well, give us your recipe for baking these things open master chef.

FastWS6TA · March 10, 2015

Lol. Hit them for like 15 to 16 minutes at like 260. Work quickly and reheat when needed. Not responsible for anyone who breaks their lenses or melts something. Lol.

Mike1220 · March 10, 2015

We bake now. Lol. But believe me, after cutting open over 500 lights, lol, you can't tell the difference. Also, some guys who try to bake are going to find that they mutilate the black channel in trying to get open, especially if this is their first battle with permaseal. Ha. Ruin that channel and the likelihood of a leak goes up.

Not sure what happened to Carl's bracket. I think it is a bad print layer perhaps. Glad he made it work though.

my bad, I didn't know that y'all started baking them now.

also I apologize, didn't mean to make it seem like I was bashing you for cutting the lights open, I just know that I would rather not cut mine open cause I know I personally wouldn't be able to seal it back all that well.

FastWS6TA · March 10, 2015

my bad, I didn't know that y'all started baking them now.

also I apologize, didn't mean to make it seem like I was bashing you for cutting the lights open, I just know that I would rather not cut mine open cause I know I personally wouldn't be able to seal it back all that well.

Lpl. None taken big guy. I knew u weren't

dcarl · March 10, 2015

Do you have any tips for anyone who is looking to do this? I don't want to cut them open and would really rather bake them. Also, how long and how hot did you set the oven at? That could be one reason why it was so difficult.

As far as removing the permaseal and replacing with the OCI butyl, I've given thought to that. I can use my heat gun so I don't have to constantly put them in the oven to soften it

Also would you mind PM'ing me some of those pics so I know where I could encounter problems with the brackets. USPS is a few days late to deliver mine and it's starting to annoy me [emoji16][emoji16]

Phil also likes to cut the headlights open. I would really really rather them not be cut open mainly because it leaves obvious damage around the headlight housing. I know that it would not often be seen but it's still the fact that I'll know it's there. Just a mind thing that makes me want to pull the lenses off rather than cut them off.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mike, I'll shoot some pictures to you tonight. I started at 220 for 8 minutes at a time and slowly increased the temp to 245 for 8 minutes and that seemed to work, but the housing gets pretty soft at that point. I think I saw latter in this post that Phil does: (Post #95 "Hit them for like 15 to 16 minutes at like 260. Work quickly and reheat when needed." ) I wish I had tried that but I was afraid of melting something or deforming it.

My first headlight for some reason was easier than the second headlight. I have no idea why other than the perma-seal seamed like it was more permanent on the second light. I think the longer bake at a higher temp is probably the key. I also maybe need to question the real temperature of my oven. You'd think an $1800 GE Profile oven would be accurate, but who knows. I'm glad my wife was out of town. She would have killed me if she knew what I was doing in her oven all weekend long....

thewhitestallion · March 10, 2015

I tried baking my lights about 3-4 months ago but I could not get the lenses off the housing. I baked in the oven at 250 for like 10 min or so and attempted to pry the lights open but the housing plastic softened too much and the screw driver I was using was just gauging the housing... I called it quits before I screwed up past the point of no return.

a place in my area quoted me 250 to paint them black and another place quoted me 500 for them to paint them black and get fxr projectors retro fitted... still not sure what route I am going to take. I would much rather do myself but man these headlights are expensive!

whodatfan · March 10, 2015

SLE headlamps can be had on ebay for around 250.

dcarl · March 13, 2015

I just posted some pictures in My Gallery of my FX-R Retrofit using the Fastheadlights kit. http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/gallery/album/3183-fx-r-retrofit/ Hopefully some of these pictures may help some folks out or give them an idea of what's involved.

The Baking to get the lens apart and clear the perma-seal was the worst part. The retrofit was a walk in the park

Mike1220 · March 13, 2015

I just posted some pictures in My Gallery of my FX-R Retrofit using the Fastheadlights kit. http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/gallery/album/3183-fx-r-retrofit/ Hopefully some of these pictures may help some folks out or give them an idea of what's involved.

The Baking to get the lens apart and clear the perma-seal was the worst part. The retrofit was a walk in the park

Would it be easier to use a heat gun possibly?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dcarl · March 13, 2015

I don't think a heat gun would be advisable only because you wouldn't get a uniform temperature all the way around the headlight. I used my heat gun afterwards to help reform the edges that got deformed on my second headlight because I had to go in and out of the oven so many times to get the lens off.

I didn't go any longer than 8 minutes or higher than 245. I see now that Phil at Fast Headlights does bake them at 260 for 15 - 16 minutes. I will say the housings get soft even after 8 minutes and you need to pay attention to the little pegs that hold the weather seal on. They can either bend over or break off pretty easy.

Also I used some black silicone after the butyl cured to go around the headlight. I didn't take any pictures of that, but I masked off the area on both sides of the lens and the housing and ran a generous bead of silicone around and used my finger with latex glove to smooth it out, let it cure for a little while, then remove the tape and let it finish curing before installation into the truck.

Lastly, for remember I bought an extra set of headlights to do this retrofit on so I could take my time doing it, and if anything were to happen with them, I'd still have my stock lights to go back in if I need to troubleshoot something.

Since I already had the TRS Sierra Spec kit installed, and I bought the complete kit from Fastheadlights, I ended up with an extra harness, pair of ballast, and pair of ignitors. I kind of look the spare parts as cheap insurance that won't take up a lot of room under the back seat of the truck.

whodatfan · March 13, 2015

So, once you get these apart, do you remove the factory butyl or do you just reheat the housing and fasten the lens back with the factory sealer still intact? Then come behind with silicone sealer over the seam.

dcarl · March 13, 2015

Unfortunately the factory stuff is Perma-seal and to my knowledge can't be reused like butyl. The Perma-seal hardens almost like the plastic itself, and once you get the lens off, you have to put the housing back in the oven a number of times to soften the Perma-seal enough to scrape it out. It's tedious work. Some people may have had better results than I did. I bought a set of "Surplus" lights on eBay that were either removed from a new vehicle before it went into service or were pulled from the line for one reason or another. There was no outward appearance issue with these lights and they work just fine in the truck, but I wanted to take my time and not worry about down time, plus I wanted to keep the stock lights as a back up if anything were to ever go wrong since my truck is so new.

I just couldn't bring myself to cutting them open, and it didn't look like some of the other guys had as much trouble baking them. Get the Butyl to seal them back up, and I used the silicone as an added measure just to make sure there wouldn't be a way for moisture to find a way in.