Post your latest oil change.

[customboss]

2 hours ago, Black02Silverado said:

8/18/2025

2019 Silverado 6.2

5k on oil

59k on Vehicle OLM at 24%

AMSOIL ASM 0w-20 8qts

EAO17 filter

Went back with ALM 5w-20 This time

Did you use PI during this interval? 

[Black02Silverado]

7 hours ago, customboss said:

Did you use PI during this interval? 

Yes, on my trip up to Maryland for the NOPI show. Plus being using E85, 9 gallons to a tank each fill up. 

[customboss]

29 minutes ago, Black02Silverado said:

Yes, on my trip up to Maryland for the NOPI show. Plus being using E85, 9 gallons to a tank each fill up. 

Id use it more often to help cut that nitration more. Thats a great result. 

[Grumpy Bear]

17 hours ago, Black02Silverado said:

8/18/2025

2019 Silverado 6.2

5k on oil

59k on Vehicle OLM at 24%

AMSOIL ASM 0w-20 8qts

EAO17 filter

Went back with ALM 5w-20 This time

 

Did you happen to run a VOA on the lot now in service? 

[Black02Silverado]

4 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Did you happen to run a VOA on the lot now in service? 

No. I did keep a bottle for the lot number. 

[Grumpy Bear]

5 hours ago, Black02Silverado said:

No. I did keep a bottle for the lot number. 

 

I know that unless you reserve a large enough volume to commit to a single vehicle that running VOA's is expensive and impractical. When we get such an opportunity however we are rewarded with the oils background data which is then subtracted from the UOA. A benefit in multiple ways.  We know how much oxidation, nitration and wear metals are added to and not the result of. We know how far our TBN has fallen. And we can discern if the disruption in a pattern after the introduction of a new lot number is the result of a change in background or the result of something operational. A mistake I most recently made. 

[customboss]

2 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

nitration

NOT cumulative.  DO NOT subtract ambient clean nitration and think you are reading combustion dynamic.  Engines make NOx and other nitrants. Of course you've ( Grumpy Bear)  blocked me and can't read this but this is free oil analysis FTIR instruction for those that can read this.  

[Grumpy Bear]

I'm going to guess what was said and EXPERTS DISAGREE. This is one of a half dozen labs that do. 

 

https://precisionlubrication.com/articles/detecting-oxidation-and-nitration/

 

[Quote] Oxidation testing performed by FTIR measures the breakdown of a lubricant due to age and operating conditions and is reported in abs/cm (absorbance units per centimeter). By observing specific absorption, FTIR testing detects the presence of carbonyl groups (C=O), such as ketones, esters, and carboxylic acids, that result from oxidation in the oil.

Nitration testing is also performed using FTIR (ASTM E2412 method), which indicates the presence of nitric acid, which speeds up oxidation. Nitrates exhibit peaks in the infrared spectrum, allowing FTIR to identify their presence in the oil.

 

Oxidation/Nitration Results Reported

When analyzing and reporting on the test results, the starting values of the new lubricant (product and grade) are considered. It’s good to note that the starting values of conventional lubricants will differ from synthetic. Customers can send in a baseline or new lube reference sample, which will be included in reports for reference and trending history comparisons. When the data analysts review test results, they look for deviations from the baseline lubricant values. [Close Quote]

The background does not magically disappear when the motor is run. 

 

All I have to say about it. 

 

[customboss]

26 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I'm going to guess what was said and EXPERTS DISAGREE. This is one of a half dozen labs that do. 

 

https://precisionlubrication.com/articles/detecting-oxidation-and-nitration/

 

[Quote] Oxidation testing performed by FTIR measures the breakdown of a lubricant due to age and operating conditions and is reported in abs/cm (absorbance units per centimeter). By observing specific absorption, FTIR testing detects the presence of carbonyl groups (C=O), such as ketones, esters, and carboxylic acids, that result from oxidation in the oil.

Nitration testing is also performed using FTIR (ASTM E2412 method), which indicates the presence of nitric acid, which speeds up oxidation. Nitrates exhibit peaks in the infrared spectrum, allowing FTIR to identify their presence in the oil.

 

Oxidation/Nitration Results Reported

When analyzing and reporting on the test results, the starting values of the new lubricant (product and grade) are considered. It’s good to note that the starting values of conventional lubricants will differ from synthetic. Customers can send in a baseline or new lube reference sample, which will be included in reports for reference and trending history comparisons. When the data analysts review test results, they look for deviations from the baseline lubricant values. [Close Quote]

The background does not magically disappear when the motor is run. 

 

All I have to say about it. 

 

Uh huh. 
 

Polaris Laboratories that screwed up Nicks analysis is your guide? 
Listen, since I know you are, Polaris is a good lab but good is not R&D level. 
 

Im gifting you insight here and Nick is familiar with my FTIR work at Cummins and my former consulting firm. 
 

Polaris was a high throughput reliever lab for Cummins and we NEVER made decisions based on their data so I have a lot of insight into their work. 
Byran Debshaw is a fine fellow but not a scientist. He’ll admit that. 
Nitric acid is formed by NATURAL GAS engines NOT diesel or gasoline engines. 
The current crop and efficacy of oxidation additives in lubricants in GASOLINE AND DIESEL ENGINES are very effective and if are running combustion temps like a natural gas engine please show the data results like I’m from Missouri. 
Once again your need to be stroked outrun your internet only knowledge of FTIR. 

Edited September 3, 2025 by customboss

[Grumpy Bear]

What could INFINIUM know, right?   That's two. Shall I walk down the entire world lab community? I can keep this up till pigs fly. 

 

https://www.infineuminsight.com/media/2946/08-used-oil-analysis-na.pdf

 

Slides 35 and 36

 

is Infineum is also not EXPERT enough? 

 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

ALSGlobal.com

 

Nitration number is a form of oxidation that relates to
chemical reaction with nitrogen, also forming nitrogenous
compounds. Nitration is a relative number that monitors
increase in the overall fluid degradation due to reaction
with nitrogen and oxygen by infrared spectroscopy. This
test parameter generally compliments other tests for fluid
service life, such as viscosity and acid number. Generally,
this test is not used as a primary indicator when all other
tests are within normal limits. Accurate oil information is
alsglobal.com required to get the most valid test results.

Contributors to increased nitration can come from exhaust gas blow-by
or reaction with natural gas products with the lubricant
and heat. It is also an indicator of electrostatic discharge
across filter surfaces in turbine oil.

 

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30020/engine-oil-nitration

 

 

 

 

[customboss]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

ALSGlobal.com

 

Nitration number is a form of oxidation that relates to
chemical reaction with nitrogen, also forming nitrogenous
compounds. Nitration is a relative number that monitors
increase in the overall fluid degradation due to reaction
with nitrogen and oxygen by infrared spectroscopy. This
test parameter generally compliments other tests for fluid
service life, such as viscosity and acid number. Generally,
this test is not used as a primary indicator when all other
tests are within normal limits. Accurate oil information is
alsglobal.com required to get the most valid test results.

Contributors to increased nitration can come from exhaust gas blow-by
or reaction with natural gas products with the lubricant
and heat. It is also an indicator of electrostatic discharge
across filter surfaces in turbine oil.

 

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30020/engine-oil-nitration

 

 

 

 

What do YOU,…..REALLY UNDERSTAND about FTIR?

Quit pulling out online references for the basics and trying to discredit someone who did R&D work when they are teaching you that level of understanding. 

 

Few outside IC engine R&D grasp how to use FTIR, RAMAN, and near IR for combustion studies. 

 

 

You’re welcome and good luck with your internet studies. 
 

Please keep ignoring me more actively. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

Oil Analyzers

 

So today I got back the rerun of the wear metals for Raven. Ya, know, from the lab I shouldn't trust because they made an error. 

 

Posted the result in the UOA thread. Very nice people to talk to and work with and @Black02Silverado was hugely helpful it getting things sorted. AMSOIL trusts this lab. Nick trust this lab. I trust them both. I trust a lab that looks at your evidence, sees the problem, takes ownership and FIXES the problem. Not so much the ones that say, "We are ISO certified and don't make mistakes". Especially since I worked in an ISO lab and it made lots of mistakes. 

 

I didn't know this. Seems there are people and businesses that are infallible. Yea! Who knew, right? 

 

As it turns out, there is only A business that believes it's/was infallible. More precisely, the owner of that business that still thinks so. The rest of the eight billion people on the planet know better. 

 

https://documents.thermofisher.com/TFS-Assets/CAD/Application-Notes/D10256~.pdf [page 2]

 

Even the people that make the instrument that measures Nitration say a base value for the background is a MUST. 

 

 

 

 

 

[customboss]

10 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

As it turns out, there is only A business that believes it's/was infallible. More precisely, the owner of that business that still thinks so. The rest of the eight billion people on the planet know better. 

Hogwash. I never said, wrote, or meant that. 
 

Remind everyone here Grumpy Bear, that you paid “A” lab on Nicks recommendation and learned things you wouldn't have known by your normal internet knowledge base. 

 

Final instruction for readers. Subtracting ambient nitration FTIR reading from VOA or reference engine oil, does nothing for accuracy of USED OIL THAT SEES COMBUSTION NITRANTS that have no chemical relationship to NOx contributions from the power cylinder burn or EGR returning.  Once fired ( much like additives in engine oil) the chemical constituents change by the REACTOR OF THE POWER CYLINDER.

  

 

[PunchT37]

Here’s mine.