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Stonehenge

By Stonehenge
in Engines & Drivetrain

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Doublebase Enthusiast

Doublebase

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, AtlasFBG2 said:

If you look at the uao for the 5.3 where 0w20 and 5w30 was used on the same engine the wear numbers are real close.

 

The 5w30 does show slightly lower wear numbers on copper.

 

Yes the benefit of 20 weight is for MPG

The question I have is...does the AFM need the 0W20? Does that system operate better off of the 0W20? Do the lifters operate under a certain pressure that is in tune with what the 0W20 provides? Like will they collapse and fill as quickly with the 30 weight? 

 

I personally would rather run a 5W30, but I'm afraid of doing something like that until I start hearing from others (I mean a lot of others) that do it regularly with success. And I just haven't seems that yet. Maybe the engine just isn't old enough and too many people didn't want to chance it under warranty? But those 100,000 mile drivetrain warranties in the 2014's are just about up...and the newer models only have a 70,000 drivetrain warranty.

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Doublebase said:

The question I have is...does the AFM need the 0W20? Does that system operate better off of the 0W20? Do the lifters operate under a certain pressure that is in tune with what the 0W20 provides? Like will they collapse and fill as quickly with the 30 weight? 

 

I personally would rather run a 5W30, but I'm afraid of doing something like that until I start hearing from others (I mean a lot of others) that do it regularly with success. And I just haven't seems that yet. Maybe the engine just isn't old enough and too many people didn't want to chance it under warranty? But those 100,000 mile drivetrain warranties in the 2014's are just about up...and the newer models only have a 70,000 drivetrain warranty.

 

Can I ask a question? The 4.3 and the 5.3 share the same thermostats, water pumps, oil pumps, lifters, filters and VLOM parts. Go ahead look them up. GM calls for 0W20 in a 5.3 but 5W30 for the 4.3. Why??? Okay, there is no question. GM provided the answer to a question that wasn't being asked. 

Doublebase Enthusiast

Doublebase

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Can I ask a question? The 4.3 and the 5.3 share the same thermostats, water pumps, oil pumps, lifters, filters and VLOM parts. Go ahead look them up. GM calls for 0W20 in a 5.3 but 5W30 for the 4.3. Why??? Okay, there is no question. GM provided the answer to a question that wasn't being asked. 

Same oil pump and oil pressure? And the 4.3 has the variable valve timing? How many lifters collapse when AFM activates? 2? 

 

I gather what you're saying is, GM is doing this just for CAFE regulations and fuel economy, right?  Makes sesne, I just didn't realize the 4.3 is that similar to the 5.3

AtlasFBG2 Enthusiast

AtlasFBG2

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Doublebase said:

The question I have is...does the AFM need the 0W20? Does that system operate better off of the 0W20? Do the lifters operate under a certain pressure that is in tune with what the 0W20 provides? Like will they collapse and fill as quickly with the 30 weight? 

 

I personally would rather run a 5W30, but I'm afraid of doing something like that until I start hearing from others (I mean a lot of others) that do it regularly with success. And I just haven't seems that yet. Maybe the engine just isn't old enough and too many people didn't want to chance it under warranty? But those 100,000 mile drivetrain warranties in the 2014's are just about up...and the newer models only have a 70,000 drivetrain warranty.

The 6.2 in the trucks spec 0w20. The same 6.2 in the Camaro up through 2018 spec 5w30. The same 6.2 in the 2019 Camaro spec 0w40 but says 5w30 can be used for street use. The 5.3 in trucks spec 0w20 and the 4.3 spec 5w30. All engines use AFM.

 

So i would say the AFM does not need 0w20. Does it operate better off the 0w20? I would say yes in my personal experiance so far.

 

On my 4.3 i used 5w30 up till last oil change at 36500 miles when i filled it with 0w20. It goes into v4 mode alot more and stays in v4 longer than it did with 5w30. It has only been almost a week so more time is needed.

 

The 2016 model year started the 60000 mile powertrain warranty. 14 and 15 had the 100000 mile powertrain warranty.

AtlasFBG2 Enthusiast

AtlasFBG2

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Doublebase said:

Same oil pump and oil pressure? And the 4.3 has the variable valve timing? How many lifters collapse when AFM activates? 2? 

 

I gather what you're saying is, GM is doing this just for CAFE regulations and fuel economy, right?  Makes sesne, I just didn't realize the 4.3 is that similar to the 5.3

Yes the 4.3 has VVT and it shuts off the 2 middle cylinders when in v4 mode.

 

My 4.3 did drop about 5 psi at hot idle when i switched to 0w20

Doublebase Enthusiast

Doublebase

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, AtlasFBG2 said:

The 6.2 in the trucks spec 0w20. The same 6.2 in the Camaro up through 2018 spec 5w30. The same 6.2 in the 2019 Camaro spec 0w40 but says 5w30 can be used for street use. The 5.3 in trucks spec 0w20 and the 4.3 spec 5w30. All engines use AFM.

 

So i would say the AFM does not need 0w20. Does it operate better off the 0w20? I would say yes in my personal experiance so far.

 

On my 4.3 i used 5w30 up till last oil change at 36500 miles when i filled it with 0w20. It goes into v4 mode alot more and stays in v4 longer than it did with 5w30. It has only been almost a week so more time is needed.

 

The 2016 model year started the 60000 mile powertrain warranty. 14 and 15 had the 100000 mile powertrain warranty.

I read that the AFM activates much more frequently in the 5.3 than the 4.3 - you mentioned since switching to the 0W20 that you've noticed it going into V4 mode much more frequently - I wonder if the oil has something to do with the 5.3 activating more frequently? Kind of doubt it, Imagine that's a factory software demand to keep fuel economy as optimal as possible in the V8 

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, AtlasFBG2 said:

Yes the 4.3 has VVT and it shuts off the 2 middle cylinders when in v4 mode.

 

My 4.3 did drop about 5 psi at hot idle when i switched to 0w20

The cure for that is the 180F thermostat. That said, are you gauging the pressure by the dash gauge or a scan tool? Hot idle for me is 20-22 psi by scan tool. Shows one needle width under 40 psi on the dash. Matted the dash shows 75-80 psi but a gauge shows 50-52 psi. 

AtlasFBG2 Enthusiast

AtlasFBG2

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Doublebase said:

I read that the AFM activates much more frequently in the 5.3 than the 4.3 - you mentioned since switching to the 0W20 that you've noticed it going into V4 mode much more frequently - I wonder if the oil has something to do with the 5.3 activating more frequently? Kind of doubt it, Imagine that's a factory software demand to keep fuel economy as optimal as possible in the V8 

I read the same thing. The 6.2 guys seems to be in v4 mode the most from what i have read. The more torque the engine makes the more it would be in v4 mode. Dont think it has anything to do with software.

 

I only switched to 0w20 as a experiment to see if v4 did work more often. I might do a second run with 0w20 if the uao looks good. But after that i will be back to 5w30

 

 

 

 

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Doublebase said:

I read that the AFM activates much more frequently in the 5.3 than the 4.3 - you mentioned since switching to the 0W20 that you've noticed it going into V4 mode much more frequently - I wonder if the oil has something to do with the 5.3 activating more frequently? Kind of doubt it, Imagine that's a factory software demand to keep fuel economy as optimal as possible in the V8 

5.3 in V4 is a 2.65 liter motor. 4.3 in V4 mode is a 2.86 liter motor. Ain't that a hoot! 

 

AFM is a load based program. Less viscous oil = less load = being on more. Worked that way with mine as well. 

 

23 minutes ago, Doublebase said:

Same oil pump and oil pressure? And the 4.3 has the variable valve timing? How many lifters collapse when AFM activates? 2? 

 

I gather what you're saying is, GM is doing this just for CAFE regulations and fuel economy, right?  Makes sesne, I just didn't realize the 4.3 is that similar to the 5.3

AtalsFBG2 answered part of this. Drops the two center cylinders. Yep, motors are sisters. Right, CAFE. 

 

Do what you're comfortable with. It's your truck. Show it some love brother. 

 

AtlasFBG2 Enthusiast

AtlasFBG2

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

The cure for that is the 180F thermostat. That said, are you gauging the pressure by the dash gauge or a scan tool? Hot idle for me is 20-22 psi by scan tool. Shows one needle width under 40 psi on the dash. Matted the dash shows 75-80 psi but a gauge shows 50-52 psi. 

180F thermostat too cold for here in Ohio.

 

Going by oil gauge on dash. It is right at the 35 psi mark now. Used to be just under 40 psi before. I will hook up my scan tool tomarrow and see if it shows oil pressure.

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
Just now, AtlasFBG2 said:

180F thermostat too cold for here in Ohio.

 

Going by oil gauge on dash. It is right at the 35 psi mark now. Used to be just under 40 psi before. I will hook up my scan tool tomarrow and see if it shows oil pressure.

I'm just west of Chicago and run a 180 F. It was GM's gold standard for over 50 years. I have plenty of heat. Warms quickly. Oil runs around 198 F winter, 208-210 F summer. Computers is happy as a clam at high tide. Perfect....Just say' n. However if that seems to cold you could use the GM 197 F unit mentioned several times in this thread. It won't hurt a thing. 10 degrees in the right direction. 

mookdoc6 Senior Enthusiast

mookdoc6

Posted
Posted

The debate rages on!  Like 3k oil changes they are gone and should be like the Elvis....0W-20's and 16's are next!  Less wear at start and Operating temp folks....Who cares what the outside temperature is?  If it's cold great!  If it's HOT what does that matter the engines run Hotter?  unless your engine is not working accordingly it protects and cools it much more efficiently....too

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted

PeppersReport.thumb.png.344430e8c0f8056a07ed5a385dc1fbca.png

 

This graph is Peppers life time hand calculated fuel history. The life time average in orange and the 36 tank moving average in blue. the peaks are summer, the lows are winter. She has 87,000 mile on her now. The first 10K miles individual tank numbers were lost to a computer hard drive crash. Those miles I only have the averages for. 24 mpg and small change. 207 F thermostat. Trans stat as OEM and 5W30 Mobil 1. Right at the EPA estimate. Most people can't get that number. National average for this combination is 17 mpg. 

 

The far right peak is last summer and the end point is the end of this past winter. Yes, her winter average for the 2018/2019 winter is higher than the 2017 summer and over 1 mpg over the life time average. The 2017 summer higher that the EPA numbers by over 3 mpg. Summer over summer gains of 2 mpg. 7 to 8 % gains year over year. 

 

Over this entire history the driving has remained a constant. I'm a double nickel guy. I'm a rural driver. I don't short hop and I'm meticulous about maintenance. I live in up state Illinois and have a range of about 350 miles one way from home. So yes the deck is stacked but constant so the reflected changes are in the oil choice and heat management. The entire project has been data driven.

 

Reflect on this a minute. If last summers peak 36 tank moving average was touching nearly 30 mpg...what were the individual peak tank numbers?  24 tanks over 30 mpg with a high of 33.3 coming home from Des Moines. I average 396 miles per tank but my tank fills are roughly 13 gallons. Half a tank for 400 miles. 

 

If you go to a less viscous oil and the temperature falls the shear was too high. 

If you go to a less viscous oil and the temperature rises the boundary layer isn't thick enough and wear is on the rise.

If you go to a more viscous oil and the temperature falls your oil film was too thin.

If you go to a more viscous oil and the temperature rises the drag is to high.

If you cool the motor and fuel efficiency rises the boundary was to thin.

If you cool the motor and the fuel efficiency falls the oil is too viscous.

 

This is all cause and effect. Physics at work. When fuel prices hover $3 a gallon this sort of result makes $12 a quart oil cheap.

 

5,000 OCI at 24 mpg and $3 a gallon is  $625 in fuel. 28 mpg is $536 in fuel. $89 per oil change in fuel savings. Six quart difference? $14.88 a quart. I'm not wasting money using this oil or changing it this often. 

 

 

Paintor Enthusiast

Paintor

Posted
Posted

I like Grumpy Bears logic and a long time fan.

 

Only thing he didn’t touch on is below freezing starts. With 0-w20 oil below freezing it will crank over slow like your battery is low. I counter with half a quart of Slick50 synthetic engine oil treatment...fires quicker because there is lube left on parts in the engine.

 

Grumpy Bear is correct, thicker oil like what is recommended for the 4.3L will be less wear....better winter starts.

 

Simple test is the below freezing crank start test. Needs no further data.

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Jacoby said:

Who the hell is Pepper?

LOL I name my trucks. Pepper is my trucks name. 

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