Oil Recommendation

[Crobinson16]

Grumpy Bear, is your motor and direct injection?

[SS502]

1 hour ago, Crobinson16 said:

Grumpy Bear, is your motor and direct injection?

In his profile he has his truck listed as:

2015 Chevy 262 V-6 so unless he performed some sort of magical spell on it...YES

[Grumpy Bear]

58 minutes ago, Hillwood said:

Well, it is just speculation here on what oil to use..  Would it not be better to discuss what oil not to use because of a known problem it caused?  

 

I'm not trying to sling oil here. 

Not quite speculation when lab results get involved. What is speculative is people. The guy driving, the one maintaining. But if you want a 'for instance'. 

 

Dad started handing out beatings for not checking the oil in the lawnmower when I was old enough to reach the handle. It became a habit quickly. He preached the 2,000 mile oil change and the Holy Grail at the time was Trop-Artic 10W30. That stuck as well into my adulthood. This guy has more 500,000 - 750,000 mile motors than anyone I know. I stuck with it for years then one day I decided to follow the gospel of Pennzoil 5W30 and extend drain intervals to 5,000. My uncle ran a bus garage with my cousin and all the Bluebirds in the fleet were on Pennzoil. With in a year we were scooping out valleys and rocker covers and rebuilding motors with stuck rings. I went back to Phillips. 

 

Some years latter Phillips dropped the 10W30 and Mobil 1 appeared. I used it at 5,000 on a beater and what do ya know...I became a believer. About the 90's Pennzoil came out with their synthetic with Penthane or some such catchy wording and In the wife's new Toyota we gave it a try on 5K OCI. By 90K it was using a quart in 300 miles. RINGS. Back to Mobil.

 

Over the years I've tried other conventional oils on short changes, 2K, Cenpeco, Wolfshead, Valvoline, Shell, Havoline and found anything that didn't come from Penn crude to work pretty well. Penn is high wax and high ash. Now Shell has bought Pennzoil and they make it from natural gas so who knows. Mobil 1 was a PAO at the time and after loosing a law suit to a customer, Castorol, they changed formulations to Group III and failed to mention this to the public. Continued to charge like it was a PAO and lied from the heart. I needed a replacement. 

 

That replacement would be chosen by data and not by marketing and it would be synthetic by nature not by law. The choices were few. AMZOIL, Red Line, and a few designer labels. Koltz, Motul. My Harley became my test stand so instrumented  it up and started touring.

 

I had one criteria. Temperature. Oil temperature. Any oil that lowers sensible heat is lower friction and lowering friction lowers wear. Oil type will lower heat. Oil viscosity ill lower heat. I sorted them one at a time. 

 

Starting with Harley's Screaming Eagle Synthetic I worked my way threw the list. By the end of the test my oil temps were down 50 degrees. I installed some cooling capacity and drug it down further. Low enough to use 40 wt. Today she runs on Red Line 10W40 car oil and oil temperatures are 90F plus ambient. Yea, on a 115 degree Nevada day I'm at 205 F in the tank while by ridding partners running whatever they like are closer to 270 F. I've seen black bottle oil at 305 F running the Dragon in SC on a partners bike while mine was under 200 F. 

 

At 45K, well over the HD recommended 35K service interval for the cam chain tensioner replacement that normally sees them 90% worn. Mine were 90% new. I replaced them anyway with the newer hydro system and high volume pumps and cooled her off ten more degrees. I run with tape on the cooler inlets when air temps are under 70F. There wasn't even a wear track in the cams. 

 

This sort of thing is hard to see in a water cooled motor. Very hard in Pepper that has a tempered water cooling system but still it is there. I posted that chart somewhere earlier comparing thermostats and three oils.

 

My choices are showing in lab test to be correct although my sampling method could use some work. LOL. 

 

Sir, I'm just providing information that doesn't come from the back of a bottle or off a billboard.

 

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, Crobinson16 said:

Grumpy Bear, is your motor and direct injection?

Yes, SS502 nailed it. Pepper is a DI motor. 

 

My displayed sample was taken on a cold day after a 15 minute trip to the shop instead of after a hour at operating temperature so my water and fuel were at the upper limit. My bad. Still perfecting the sampling method. 

[Hillwood]

Will there ever be a conclusion to the great debate?  

[diyer2]

19 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Not quite speculation when lab results get involved. What is speculative is people. The guy driving, the one maintaining. But if you want a 'for instance'. 

 

Dad started handing out beatings for not checking the oil in the lawnmower when I was old enough to reach the handle. It became a habit quickly. He preached the 2,000 mile oil change and the Holy Grail at the time was Trop-Artic 10W30. That stuck as well into my adulthood. This guy has more 500,000 - 750,000 mile motors than anyone I know. I stuck with it for years then one day I decided to follow the gospel of Pennzoil 5W30 and extend drain intervals to 5,000. My uncle ran a bus garage with my cousin and all the Bluebirds in the fleet were on Pennzoil. With in a year we were scooping out valleys and rocker covers and rebuilding motors with stuck rings. I went back to Phillips. 

 

Some years latter Phillips dropped the 10W30 and Mobil 1 appeared. I used it at 5,000 on a beater and what do ya know...I became a believer. About the 90's Pennzoil came out with their synthetic with Penthane or some such catchy wording and In the wife's new Toyota we gave it a try on 5K OCI. By 90K it was using a quart in 300 miles. RINGS. Back to Mobil.

 

Over the years I've tried other conventional oils on short changes, 2K, Cenpeco, Wolfshead, Valvoline, Shell, Havoline and found anything that didn't come from Penn crude to work pretty well. Penn is high wax and high ash. Now Shell has bought Pennzoil and they make it from natural gas so who knows. Mobil 1 was a PAO at the time and after loosing a law suit to a customer, Castorol, they changed formulations to Group III and failed to mention this to the public. Continued to charge like it was a PAO and lied from the heart. I needed a replacement. 

 

That replacement would be chosen by data and not by marketing and it would be synthetic by nature not by law. The choices were few. AMZOIL, Red Line, and a few designer labels. Koltz, Motul. My Harley became my test stand so instrumented  it up and started touring.

 

I had one criteria. Temperature. Oil temperature. Any oil that lowers sensible heat is lower friction and lowering friction lowers wear. Oil type will lower heat. Oil viscosity ill lower heat. I sorted them one at a time. 

 

Starting with Harley's Screaming Eagle Synthetic I worked my way threw the list. By the end of the test my oil temps were down 50 degrees. I installed some cooling capacity and drug it down further. Low enough to use 40 wt. Today she runs on Red Line 10W40 car oil and oil temperatures are 90F plus ambient. Yea, on a 115 degree Nevada day I'm at 205 F in the tank while by ridding partners running whatever they like are closer to 270 F. I've seen black bottle oil at 305 F running the Dragon in SC on a partners bike while mine was under 200 F. 

 

At 45K, well over the HD recommended 35K service interval for the cam chain tensioner replacement that normally sees them 90% worn. Mine were 90% new. I replaced them anyway with the newer hydro system and high volume pumps and cooled her off ten more degrees. I run with tape on the cooler inlets when air temps are under 70F. There wasn't even a wear track in the cams. 

 

This sort of thing is hard to see in a water cooled motor. Very hard in Pepper that has a tempered water cooling system but still it is there. I posted that chart somewhere earlier comparing thermostats and three oils.

 

My choices are showing in lab test to be correct although my sampling method could use some work. LOL. 

 

Sir, I'm just providing information that doesn't come from the back of a bottle or off a billboard.

 

The proof is in the pudding!

I will stay with my off the shelf oil and 3 K OCI because it has worked for me.

 

[Crobinson16]

2 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Yes, SS502 nailed it. Pepper is a DI motor. 

 

My displayed sample was taken on a cold day after a 15 minute trip to the shop instead of after a hour at operating temperature so my water and fuel were at the upper limit. My bad. Still perfecting the sampling method. 

I wasn't sure if the v6 was DI or not. I see your choice of oil is high in calcium, which I thought was no no for D1G2 due to LSPI ? 

[Grumpy Bear]

3 hours ago, Crobinson16 said:

I wasn't sure if the v6 was DI or not. I see your choice of oil is high in calcium, which I thought was no no for D1G2 due to LSPI ? 

That standard wasn't even a thing until Aug 31, 2017. AMSOIL which promotes itself as a LSPI inhibitor has over 3500 ppm calcium so I'm not concerned with something in the low 2500 range. If it were an issue I'd pick it up on the KIR and so far I see no issues in that area. 

 

 

[Doublebase]

On 3/29/2019 at 9:10 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

Personal opinion? Slows add pack depletion.

 

At 5K OCI Pepper did suffer some fuel dilution. 2.4%. While more than sequential port injection motors, I've seen carbureted motors run that high. At this dilution rate the 212 F viscosity was down to 8.5 cSt from 9.1 cSt.  About half a centistoke. Hardly an earth moving situation. Caveat, I don't turn the key for a trip under 100 miles as a general rule. A guy that lives 10 miles from work has a bigger problem as the motor never reaches full heat long enough to weather off the system.  

 

Imagine someone running shorter drive cycles, what their fuel dilution could be? 2.4% is probably still at acceptable limits with a chance of effecting viscosity I guess, not sure. Direct inject engines probably have more of a tendency to dilute oil with fuel in the winter...longer warm up times and denser fuel. Not sure about that either but it makes sense. Not sure when your used oil analysis was, but if it was coming off a winter run, wonder if that played a part?

 

Manufacturers I'm sure are aware of issues with direct injection and oil manufacturers probably are too. It appears as if additive packs with the "name brand" synthetics have all become very similar nowadays. Just today I found out that Valvoline - king of the sodium add pack over the moly additive - have since changed their Synthetic formula (and it looks remarkably like every other Dexos approved Synthetic). Shell's new Gas Truck Synthetic oil (a gimmick if I've ever seen one), looks similar as well, except with a higher moly count. 

 

LSPI seems to be a buzz now in the oil industry, how or if an oil can control or inhibit low speed detonation caused by direct injection is beyond me, but I've certainly felt it in both my direct inject vehicles. Knock sensors worked overtime on my Lexus LS460. It's a phenomenon over at the Lexus forums...how these beautiful V8's can hesitate and bog down under loads at low speeds. I've felt it in my Silverado too. I think now more than ever, oil change interval is so important. You mention fuel dilution in carburetor engines but remember, we used to change the oil in those things every 3,000 miles and yet those engines still couldn't last as long as the engine's today without a rebuild.

[DeePa]

Does anyone think 0-20 is too light for our motors?

 

maybe why lifters fail and oil pump failures are starting?

 

whats the benefit??? MPG???

 

ex gm field tech said to ditch the 0-20 and go back to a more conventional and even up to 10w-40 weight. 

[HeySkippyDog]

Oh dear.... I don't think I'd deviate from the 20w.

Oil pressure and seals and such are designed for 20w.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J727A using Tapatalk

[Jacoby]

Who the hell is Pepper?

[DeePa]

What do these motors in the vettes run?

 

psi is psi right?

 

 

[AtlasFBG2]

22 minutes ago, DeePa said:

Does anyone think 0-20 is too light for our motors?

 

maybe why lifters fail and oil pump failures are starting?

 

whats the benefit??? MPG???

 

ex gm field tech said to ditch the 0-20 and go back to a more conventional and even up to 10w-40 weight. 

If you look at the uao for the 5.3 where 0w20 and 5w30 was used on the same engine the wear numbers are real close.

 

The 5w30 does show slightly lower wear numbers on copper.

 

Yes the benefit of 20 weight is for MPG

[AtlasFBG2]

8 minutes ago, DeePa said:

What do these motors in the vettes run?

 

psi is psi right?

 

 

6.2 in the Camaro and Vette used 5w30 untill 2019 when they recommend 0w40 now.