Oil Recommendation

[Doublebase]

5 hours ago, kennerz said:

Just a comment- Mobil1 changed it's formula a few years back(maybe a long while back). Used to be good stuff, was working too well I guess, things weren't wearing out like they were supposed to.  I don't run it anymore. That said any of the premium synthetics will do. just I don't buy the 0~w20 for 10~15k mi for a minute.

 

I guess I'm stupid cause I'll run any synthetic(castrol, Royal purp,etc..) 0~w40 and change it at 4~5k mi with the best filter I can get my hands on (wix, k&n, Mobil1,Delco) The 0~w20 stuff looked like black water at 5k mi. Just kinda scared me.

 

 People forget a lot of what dirties the oil, (air filtration and blowby) still dirties the oil no matter what you use. 8 quarts is the higher capacity to hold more dirt. Engines that last like clean oil that's not broken down.

 

Seems like a lot of folks prefer the amsoil. I'm tempted to try it out, can't hurt just takes a little more effort to get than going and getting Walmart's finest on the shelf. I don't have a local contact.

 

Thank you to those who mentioned about the esther based oils and the 100% synthetic comments. From what I've researched over the years they are true statements. In bikes I run motul 300v which is a 100% pure esther synthetic. one of my engine builders look inside a bike of mine (is an industry expert in his field) and said it was the cleanest engine that showed the least amount of wear he had ever seen. Just to reiterate it's all about your program and knowing what works and what a correct schedule is. not just following mfg recommendations. There is more to it than that and you have to be intelligent about your approach. really comes down to how YOU like to maintain YOUR vehicle. 

 

Last I would really only go by mileage and use conditions - time as an indicator only if it's been a while and you have some type of weather conditions that dictate that you need to change your oil. I'll say it and sure I'll tick people off but -don't care what kind of oil you use - high mileage oil changes using low viscosity oil is for dummies - there I said it. Especially if it's dinosaur based oil X2 stupid.

 

Best case scenario - get the best oil that you think is good and change it often/early if you plan on keeping your truck or like it to run well.

So you're running a 0W40 weight oil? I find that interesting just because like most I don't really feel comfortable with the lighter weight oils to meet CAFE regulations. But I haven't really run into anyone that is using anything but the 0W20 on the 2014's and up 5.3's with the AFM.

 

My plan is to run 5,000 mile oil change intervals using either Pennzoil Platium or another similar Dexos 0W20 synthetic up until maybe 70,000 miles. But of course I want to hear about other people doing that first, before I try it. 

 

I won't go past 5,000-6,000 mile oil changes with direct inject engines anymore. I worry about fuel dilution and I have a friend that regularly tears down Audi engines and the rings are just soaked in soot. I just tore down a Honda Odyssey engine that went on extended drains  for it's entire 225,000 mile life (5W20 conventional following the oi life monitor, big mistake by them I guess), and the oil rings were so clogged up with soot and varnish that it took me a while just to unclog the holes on the pistons oil lands...and you should have seen the underside of these pistons! So much varnish and buildup. consumed lots of oil. The cylinder walls were absolutely perfect though. 

 

Prior to direct injection I had never really seen engine failures due to oil. I worked for a government fleet for some years and it was 7,500 mile oil changes right across the board for all of our cars, using conventional. Not a single issue in all my years there.  And those guys beat the tar out of those cars (everything Chevy, everything Dodge and everything Ford). 5W20 and 5W30. We'd run them until 120,000 miles, then send them to the auction. I shouldn't say we NEVER had an engine issue, we did have one burnt valve on a Ford Taurus once and a total engine failure on a GM two months into the fleet. And there was of course repairs on every other facet of those cars and trucks...intake gaskets, sensors,  trannies, axles, every ball joint strut and tie rod under the sun.  But the government did a case study on our fleet and determined 7,500 was the "magic number" for economic reasons and I must say I wouldn't do it, but they were right in terms of lack of failure, cost, up until 120,000-140,000 miles. And these people would go past that sometimes, and never ever open their hoods. 

 

I try to keep my engines running optimal up until 250,000- 300,000 miles but my last venture into the direct injection world didn't allow that. I owned a Lexus LS 460...9.1 quarts of 0W20, tried doing 7,000 mile drain intervals....went ok for a while, little consumption. Then when it hit 150,000 miles it began using some, then a little more, then more. Then by 175,000  miles it developed a oil drinking habit (1 quart every 1,000 miles). Traded it in. Loved that car though. They recommended 10,000 mile oil change intervals. So with direct inject I no longer go past 5k anymore.   

[Doublebase]

10 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

GM recommends 5W30 for the 4.3 Ecotec3 motors but I run Red Line 0W20 year around. 

 

The data offered uses the Blackstone Labs Universal Averages for 5657 samples for the GM 5.3 on OCI's of 5,657 miles average. This is a solid comparison as the 4.3 and 5.3 are the same platform. Dyson hasn't a library on this motor. At least one Terry shared with me.  

 

Pepper had 80,000 miles on the clock when this sample was taken. 

 

Important note that I mention every time this conversation comes up. She has a 180 F thermostat, not the 207 F and oil temperatures run 20/25 F colder than factory equipment average. 198 to 205 F.  I would NEVER run a *W20 as hot as the factory sends them. I wouldn't run 30W that hot...but that's just me. 

 

Maybe someone will find this share useful if not thought provoking. 

 

 

 

 

I've never seen that high of a molybdenum in an oil, except maybe early versions on Toyota Genuine Motor oil 0W20 (but they've since lowered theirs quite a bit). Most oils have dropped a great deal in moly...supposedly  new "higher quality moly", which is used in lesser quantities. But the Redline is loaded. Wow. I consider Redline and Amsoil to be the two highest quality oils out there. 

[ducklawyer]

There again Grumpy opens a new door (like going thru the wardrobe in chronicles of narnia). So what’s the consensus on using 0w20, or more specifically the 5w-30 on these afm motors?


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[Grumpy Bear]

8 hours ago, TXGREEK said:

 

always like to learn of new products or products I’ve never heard of. Is it Delco approved ?


Sent from above

 

Yes but they don't make a fanfare about it. No seal on the front but listed in the small print of approvals on the back of the bottle. 

[Grumpy Bear]

4 minutes ago, ducklawyer said:

There again Grumpy opens a new door (like going thru the wardrobe in chronicles of narnia). So what’s the consensus on using 0w20, or more specifically the 5w-30 on these afm motors?


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Great question. The 5.3 and 4.3 are the same 'motor type'. Use the same pumps, lifters, VLOM parts, bearings & ring material, piston type and bore liner materials ….and so on. That the case, if the 5.3 is meant the run 0W20 why does GM spec 5W30 for the 4.3? Obvious the AFM works perfectly with either oil. I expect it would do equally well on 40W. Is GM saying that the wheels fall off if the viscosity isn't exactly 12 cST? How could that be? AFM starts working somewhere around 180 F oil temp when the viscosity is still well above the 225 F temperatures they built these things for. I see a company talking both sides of the mouth. 

[Grumpy Bear]

50 minutes ago, Doublebase said:

I've never seen that high of a molybdenum in an oil, except maybe early versions on Toyota Genuine Motor oil 0W20 (but they've since lowered theirs quite a bit). Most oils have dropped a great deal in moly...supposedly  new "higher quality moly", which is used in lesser quantities. But the Redline is loaded. Wow. I consider Redline and Amsoil to be the two highest quality oils out there. 

That is a marketing thing. Moly is a base element, not a mixture, not a compound.....Moly can only be finer or coarser. Takes a dispersant to hold it in suspension at any concentration. The fact that it does says allot about it's ability to hold other contaminates in suspension as well, eh? Is a crazy amount though.  

 

Anyone remember ARCO graphite? 

[TXGREEK]

That is a marketing thing. Moly is a base element, not a mixture, not a compound.....Moly can only be finer or coarser. Takes a dispersant to hold it in suspension at any concentration. The fact that it does says allot about it's ability to hold other contaminates in suspension as well, eh? Is a crazy amount though.  

 

Anyone remember ARCO graphite? 

 

Let’s just compromise, we can mix the Amsoil with the Redline lol

 

 

Sent from above

[Capt Bob]

11 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

GM recommends 5W30 for the 4.3 Ecotec3 motors but I run Red Line 0W20 year around. 

 

The data offered uses the Blackstone Labs Universal Averages for 5657 samples for the GM 5.3 on OCI's of 5,657 miles average. This is a solid comparison as the 4.3 and 5.3 are the same platform. Dyson hasn't a library on this motor. At least one Terry shared with me.  

 

Pepper had 80,000 miles on the clock when this sample was taken. 

 

Important note that I mention every time this conversation comes up. She has a 180 F thermostat, not the 207 F and oil temperatures run 20/25 F colder than factory equipment average. 198 to 205 F.  I would NEVER run a *W20 as hot as the factory sends them. I wouldn't run 30W that hot...but that's just me. 

 

Maybe someone will find this share useful if not thought provoking. 

 

 

 

 

So I find a 180 degree stat and install. Do I need to alter/adjust/change any computer settings (which I currently cannot do) in order to "benefit" from the stat change? That's about as thought provoking as I'm capable of at this point

[Grumpy Bear]

6 hours ago, Capt Bob said:

So I find a 180 degree stat and install. Do I need to alter/adjust/change any computer settings (which I currently cannot do) in order to "benefit" from the stat change? That's about as thought provoking as I'm capable of at this point

IPSCO.Org.

 

No programing required for 180 F or hotter. Have to drill a 5/64" hole in the thermostat flange to bleed enough water by to get the stat a signal. Details in my build thread. Link below. PM if you still unsure of install details. 

 

https://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/topic/190975-grumpy-bears-2015-silverado-2wd/?page=23

 

 

[tbarn]

I remember the black Arco oil. How would Joe Blow ever know when it was dirty? Might have been a good in its day on paper. Don't know though.

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, tbarn said:

I remember the black Arco oil. How would Joe Blow ever know when it was dirty? Might have been a good in its day on paper. Don't know though.

Did you watch the video on page one of this thread Dan Posted? Note that after the NOAC test how much darker the oil was? Dark doesn't necessarily mean dirty. Heat will turn oil dark over time. Royal Purple is...well...dark purple new.  Much like Arco. 

 

Back when I wrenched on Brit bikes you would get some knucklehead that would take a fresh build and ride it like he stole it from first fire. "Gotta break in them thar rings", he'd say. More times than not I get it back seized up in under 50 miles, oil as black as coal tar.  It was Castor Bean based oils and they weren't assembled like anything made today but the point is heat is deadly even to really REALLY good oil. 

[garagerog]

Y'all can argue which oil is the best, personally I think that any Dexos certified full synthetic oil is just fine, oil change interval is probably more important.  Of all the opinions I've seen posted in this thread Doublebase's post that mentioned DI is probably by far the most relevant, fuel dilution does matter, if not, why did GM go to an eight, yes count that 8 quart wet sump system when the 6 quart system worked just fine with the pre-DI 5.3's. Oh, and not to mention the 5.7s, 350's to old bastids like me that chugged happily along for many 100,000s of miles on only 5 quarts of oil unless you used the PF932,  2 quart truck filter, then you were up to 6 quarts.

[AtlasFBG2]

9 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Great question. The 5.3 and 4.3 are the same 'motor type'. Use the same pumps, lifters, VLOM parts, bearings & ring material, piston type and bore liner materials ….and so on. That the case, if the 5.3 is meant the run 0W20 why does GM spec 5W30 for the 4.3? Obvious the AFM works perfectly with either oil. I expect it would do equally well on 40W. Is GM saying that the wheels fall off if the viscosity isn't exactly 12 cST? How could that be? AFM starts working somewhere around 180 F oil temp when the viscosity is still well above the 225 F temperatures they built these things for. I see a company talking both sides of the mouth. 

On Tuesday I just did a oil change on my 4.3 v6. 

 

I switched to 0w20 Walmart Supertech oil instead of the 5w30 previously used. First thing I noticed on my morning drive to work was that the truck went into v4 mode at speeds it never did before. On the drive home it was in v4 mode the entire time up to 61 mph. I have never seen this truck stay in v4 mode much above 40 mph. Usually it had to be 35 mph or less to stay in v4 mode. I also am up 1.2 mpg on a partial tank since this oil change. 

 

Most of the time i owned this truck it had a tuner on it with afm turned off. Except for 3-4 months out of the 2 years i had it.

 

I do plan on doing a uoa on the oil. I plan on runing it till the oil life monitor is less than 5%. Be intersting to compare results to your redine oil. 

[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, AtlasFBG2 said:

On Tuesday I just did a oil change on my 4.3 v6. 

 

I switched to 0w20 Walmart Supertech oil instead of the 5w30 previously used. First thing I noticed on my morning drive to work was that the truck went into v4 mode at speeds it never did before. On the drive home it was in v4 mode the entire time up to 61 mph. I have never seen this truck stay in v4 mode much above 40 mph. Usually it had to be 35 mph or less to stay in v4 mode. I also am up 1.2 mpg on a partial tank since this oil change. 

 

Most of the time i owned this truck it had a tuner on it with afm turned off. Except for 3-4 months out of the 2 years i had it.

 

I do plan on doing a uoa on the oil. I plan on runing it till the oil life monitor is less than 5%. Be intersting to compare results to your redine oil. 

Yes is will.  Same here. When I made the switch the fuel efficiency went up. AFM stays on longer. Erie quite.

 

There is a slightly cooler thermostat, 192 F, used in the Camaro and Corvette. The part number is.  12674634. Thank you Crobinson16. If your going to run this light oil this is a good idea at minimum. 

Crobinson16

Anyway, post me up when you get your results. I'm all ears. 

[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, garagerog said:

Y'all can argue which oil is the best, personally I think that any Dexos certified full synthetic oil is just fine, oil change interval is probably more important.  Of all the opinions I've seen posted in this thread Doublebase's post that mentioned DI is probably by far the most relevant, fuel dilution does matter, if not, why did GM go to an eight, yes count that 8 quart wet sump system when the 6 quart system worked just fine with the pre-DI 5.3's. Oh, and not to mention the 5.7s, 350's to old bastids like me that chugged happily along for many 100,000s of miles on only 5 quarts of oil unless you used the PF932,  2 quart truck filter, then you were up to 6 quarts.

Personal opinion? Slows add pack depletion.

 

At 5K OCI Pepper did suffer some fuel dilution. 2.4%. While more than sequential port injection motors, I've seen carbureted motors run that high. At this dilution rate the 212 F viscosity was down to 8.5 cSt from 9.1 cSt.  About half a centistoke. Hardly an earth moving situation. Caveat, I don't turn the key for a trip under 100 miles as a general rule. A guy that lives 10 miles from work has a bigger problem as the motor never reaches full heat long enough to weather off the system.