Afm problem

[KARNUT]

I believe we’re beating the wrong horse. Most would agree oil isn’t the problem. Refuse to by Frankenstein and direct injection engines. Instead of searching for the magic oil. I guess GM got tired of producing a bulletproof engine that used any oil. They are manufacturers that still do. Seems like the 80s all over again.


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[diyer2]

Keeping the inside of a motor clean is paramount IMO. How you achieve this(or not) is your choice. More frequent OCI's, better quality oil, or a combo of both.

 

I have always said shorter oil and filter changes have worked for me. I pulled the valve covers on my 93 Chevy 5.7 to replace the leaking gaskets at 100 k miles. Everything was clean. Shorter OCI's with dino oil and  Fram filters.

I'm not here to hype products or convince anyone how to maintain their vehicle. I just know what has worked for me for over 50 years. Changing all the fluids regularly has worked. I haven't needed UOA's and data about fluids and filters. 

I do find the data/specs posted interesting.

All things mechanical can have a part failure but proper maintenance can reduce part failures. The definition of proper maintenance is a personal choice.

 

 

[Z45]

I wish you all could read an article in Lubes'n'Greases by Tom Glenn (Petroleum Trends Int) entitled "How Do Your Know Its Synthetic" and the follow up article "Its a Marketing Term: The Paradox of Synthetics".   Its a paid subscription and pricey. 

 

To paraphrase; There is NO test that can prove an oil is Gr. III synthetic.  So an oil company can put "Full Synthetic" on the label of conventional oil and reap a premium for selling as such.  How do you think some of these synthetic oils sell so cheap?  Buyer beware.

 

Btw, GTL (gas to liquid) is a Gr. III.

Edited October 10, 2020 by elcamino

[flyingfool]

http://www.prestonmoore.com/2018_Sierra_L83/Melling-tech-bulletin-on-GM-LS-Deactivation-Lifter-Issues-3.1.18-1.pdf

 

replace your VLOM screens guys

Edited October 10, 2020 by flyingfool

[TXGREEK]

I wish you all could read an article in Lubes'n'Greases by Tom Glenn (Petroleum Trends Int) entitled "How Do Your Know Its Synthetic" and the follow up article "Its a Marketing Term: The Paradox of Synthetics".   Its a paid subscription and pricey. 
 
To paraphrase; There is NO test that can prove an oil is Gr. III synthetic.  So an oil company can put "Full Synthetic" on the label of conventional oil and reap a premium for selling as such.  How do you think some of these synthetic oils sell so cheap?  Buyer beware.
 
Btw, GTL (gas to liquid) is a Gr. III.

Thanks for bring it up. This is exactly what I’ve been preaching all along. Full synthetic IS NOT 100% synthetic. Rather, it’s a blend of low quality oil mixed with 100% synthetic additives. There’s no regulation requiring ANY oil company to divulge how much is actually synthetic. Back in the nineties, semi synthetic was the rage, intoxicated by the futuristic like protection offered by the marketing companies, I dug into it and by law, there was absolutely ZERO requirements for any oil company to list its actual synthetic percentage.

All these “Full Synthetics” are NO DIFFERENT then what was offered back 30 years ago, just more hyped up marketing. Oil Companies and Greed were as one back then and even worse today as they pay automotive manufacturers for license use of a bullshit Dexos name GM came up with rather then just specifically naming 0w20 with certain requirements like every manufacturer has, they’ve now started their own Dexos Club and anyone that wants to be listed as a member must pay ROYALTY FEES which is why Amsoil isn’t part of their club, they refuse to pay GM to be able to say Dexos approved. Amsoil has been tested over and over and completely blows away all of GM’s requirements.

My service department manager knows that I run nothing but Amsoil Signature Series, they actually recommend I stick with it as they’ve NEVER EVER had any vehicle come in with engine problems while running on Amsoil. As a matter of fact, I was told approx 35% of the engines with AFM problems have been serviced by their technicians since new and the crazy thing is if not have the service department maintain your vehicle, that would mean that DIY’s are possibly taking it elsewhere or just doing it themselves but the logic in this I’d assume would be for better quality products but really that’s not at all the case, especially in these forums where the majority of DIY’s are cost driven rather than quality driven.

When you buy something that has made a noticeable positive difference you’re much more incline to brag about it but in all my years I’ve never seen so many cheap asses just bounce from one manufacturer to another, driven on buying and bragging and competing on buying the cheapest prices they can get the oil as I’ve seen on these GM forums. It’s like they’re on bread lines, just the most basic oil requirements and they’re happy with it and then you’ll find the same individuals spending money on add ons in search for more power or a look they’re trying to achieve all while running oil with basic 30 year old technology.

To each their own.

I’m about tapped out on these forums, I’m thinking my time on here has about run it’s course.


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[Z45]

If anyone can access that magazine the articles are in the May and June 2019 issues.   Cost is $149/yr for print and digital.

 

?How many synthetics dare put 100% Synthetic on the label?  Only 2 that I have seen...

 

Read this ► https://www.motuloil.com.au/2016/12/26/81/

Edited October 10, 2020 by elcamino

[flyingfool]

 

 

 

[flyingfool]

i've watch someone do a Dextos test on GM rated oils and they only handle 1-2 weights and fail within a minute makes me wonder why we're using 0w20...

Edited October 10, 2020 by flyingfool

[Grumpy Bear]

 

7 hours ago, elcamino said:

There is NO test that can prove an oil is Gr. III synthetic. 

https://jyx.jyu.fi/bitstream/handle/123456789/57491/1/URN%3ANBN%3Afi%3Ajyu-201804051926.pdf

 

They can tell you what rabbit hole it came from by it's chemical signature.

That signature in the case of a Group III would contain a fixed percentage of Isomers, aromatics, wax, sulfur and next to zero double/triple bonded hydrocarbons. A much shorter chain menu than the lower groups. 

Yes GTL is a Group III and yet it's signature is allot narrower.

These would be different that the signatures of other base oil groups whose specifications differ. 

Difference, detectable difference is what makes them different. 

 

 

 

 

Group 3:

 

Mineral oil, dewaxed, hydrocracked and hydro-treated and partially isomerized.

 

95 – 99% saturates, 1 – 5% aromatics

Sulfur 0 – 30 ppm

VI 123 - 150.

Possible viscosity range @ 212F = 4 – 8 cSt.

 

GTL: (a subset of Group 3)

 

Mineral oil synthesized from Natural Gas

Trace unsaturated.  

VI greater than 135.

Sulfur less than .0002% or 0 - 2 ppm

Cliff Notes version of GTL. Is natural gas that is converted to an ultra-sweet mineral crude that covers the range between light naphtha and lube oil. Highest percentage of isoparaffins. The most refined and cleanest of the mineral oil class but a mineral oil none the less. Once the synthetic crude in made it is processed like any other crude oil.

[Jsdirt]

Another AMSOIL fan here. The stuff is just plain well made. Without it, I definitely would be putting an engine in my truck ... along with my transmission that just let got at 103k miles (and the differential that failed at 97k, but I digress. All you have to do is look at the tests that have been done, along with the product's additive package - that's all the "iron clad proof" I need. Beat on and torn down enough engines of every size to know the importance of a good lubricant. IMO, anyone not running synthetic in these modern GDI engines is a fool. Might as well run the best there is. Oil is cheaper than an engine replacement. It's your money!

 

I have to say, it's not just oil that causes AFM failures. Sure, it'll speed up the process, but, every single engine built with AFM WILL FAIL. GM has a bad habit these days of using low-bidder, offshore parts. Engines used to be off limits to this cheapout mentality, but not anymore. There's better, and more American content these days in a Toyota, Honda, or Subaru. 

 

Welcome to the 21st Century, where EVERYTHING sucks, from lawn mowers to dishwashers.

[Black02Silverado]

Someone mentioned warranty. As usual I can't find that post but here is AMSOIL's limited warranty.

[mookdoc6]

15 hours ago, Jsdirt said:

Another AMSOIL fan here. The stuff is just plain well made. Without it, I definitely would be putting an engine in my truck ... along with my transmission that just let got at 103k miles (and the differential that failed at 97k, but I digress. All you have to do is look at the tests that have been done, along with the product's additive package - that's all the "iron clad proof" I need. Beat on and torn down enough engines of every size to know the importance of a good lubricant. IMO, anyone not running synthetic in these modern GDI engines is a fool. Might as well run the best there is. Oil is cheaper than an engine replacement. It's your money!

 

I have to say, it's not just oil that causes AFM failures. Sure, it'll speed up the process, but, every single engine built with AFM WILL FAIL. GM has a bad habit these days of using low-bidder, offshore parts. Engines used to be off limits to this cheapout mentality, but not anymore. There's better, and more American content these days in a Toyota, Honda, or Subaru. 

 

Welcome to the 21st Century, where EVERYTHING sucks, from lawn mowers to dishwashers.

every single engine built with AFM WILL FAIL

 

ummm...OK I am sure you can substantiate that?  I mean GM has millions of these engines on market with ON STAR constantly feeding them data....I guess mines next?

[CamGTP]

To follow up on prices I found at Napa because why not, this thread is already derailed enough lol.

 

The Amsoil OE 5W20/30 stuff is $6.80 a quart if I remember right. The XL 0W20 etc etc is $8 and the signature 0W20 is 10.95 a quart. The gallon jug is $46 for the signature. That is walk in price.

 

I forget the exact numbers here but my cost is even less at my job, I think the signature was $9.65 and for each of the others it was slightly less too. I think 8 quarts of the OE oil was $51-52 dollars.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by CamGTP

[Jsdirt]

23 minutes ago, mookdoc6 said:

every single engine built with AFM WILL FAIL

 

ummm...OK I am sure you can substantiate that?  I mean GM has millions of these engines on market with ON STAR constantly feeding them data....I guess mines next?

I guarantee it. It's not a question of IF ... but WHEN.

[TXGREEK]

Another AMSOIL fan here. The stuff is just plain well made. Without it, I definitely would be putting an engine in my truck ... along with my transmission that just let got at 103k miles (and the differential that failed at 97k, but I digress. All you have to do is look at the tests that have been done, along with the product's additive package - that's all the "iron clad proof" I need. Beat on and torn down enough engines of every size to know the importance of a good lubricant. IMO, anyone not running synthetic in these modern GDI engines is a fool. Might as well run the best there is. Oil is cheaper than an engine replacement. It's your money!
 
I have to say, it's not just oil that causes AFM failures. Sure, it'll speed up the process, but, every single engine built with AFM WILL FAIL. GM has a bad habit these days of using low-bidder, offshore parts. Engines used to be off limits to this cheapout mentality, but not anymore. There's better, and more American content these days in a Toyota, Honda, or Subaru. 
 
Welcome to the 21st Century, where EVERYTHING sucks, from lawn mowers to dishwashers.

Absolutely correct, better off using top notch products if you’re interested in keeping your vehicle. I don’t buy used, never have, never will, especially after being a part of these forums. Never seen so many cheap asses in my life as I’ve seen these forums. Everyone thinks the manufacturers are responsible for the longevity of their vehicles, they’re DEAD wrong!


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