Line Level Amplifier Connection Help

[MNDaveC]

Last fall I upgraded my door speakers in my CC with the 8" non-Bose stereo. The new Kicker DS Coax speakers were a nice improvement without adding an Amp. The only drawback is the stock dash tweeters are a bit too pronounced compared to the door speakers... Now I'd like to have a bit of a stronger, cleaner sound and am considering a line-level 4 channel amplifier without a sub.

 

Desired changes:

- Add a line-level amp so no need to step down the audio outs

- Connect the amp to the 4 door speakers

- Better balance the volume of the tweeters with the rest of the system

- Avoid need for a sub.. I want a clean sound, but don't care for thumping

- Keep cost in moderation

- These amps are pretty small, so I'd mount it up front under the dash or similar

 

Note: I have Alldata subscription, so any links to the proper Alldata pages would be helpful

 

I need help understanding the following:

 

- As the truck has 6 speakers (4 doors and 2 tweeters), are there 6 channels coming out of the head-unit? or is it 4 channel with some sort of bypass for the tweeters? HOW MANY SPEAKER WIRES AR COMING OUT OF THE HEAD-UNIT? Will the tweeters be problematic?

 

- Amplifiers to consider... seems like the Alpine and Clarion are both pretty popular on Crutchfield. Any comments on these? http://www.crutchfield.com/g_347050/4-channel-Amplifiers.html?tp=35782##&nvpair=AG_General_Features%7CYCSpeaker_Level_Inputs

 

- Would love to find some male and female wiring harnesses to work with the stock connections. An anyone suggest part # and where to get?

 

- Given I'm not looking for a huge amp, power draw shouldn't be huge.. Any recommendations on where to tap into a power source?

 

- Any tips on getting at the speaker outs on the factory head unit?

[MNDaveC]

Crutchfield advisor recommends this Alpine amp: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500KTP445U/Alpine-KTP-445U-Power-Pack.html

[woods780]

I have very little experience with this so it may not work well BUT this is what I'm planning for now:

 

-Already installed Kicker CS coax in front doors & am planning on another set for the back doors

 

-Ordered last night the Alpine KTP-445U & these harnesses to hopefully keep from cutting the factory wiring

- Metra 71-2107 http://www.installer.com/item/display_item.php?it=71-2107

- Metra 70-2057 http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/r_42085_Metra_Electronics_70-2057.aspx

 

I'm pretty sure the front door and dash are on the same channel. My may concern right now is the volume of the doors chimes.

[GRN69CHV]

I know you said you didn't want a sub. But, what we've done many times before is to install a sub, run the stock system as is, but add bass blockers at the speakers. Taking the bass out of the full range speakers allows you to run them a lot harder yet cleaner and louder with no more than the factory head unit/amp. If I do anything to mine this is probably the route I'd go.

[Fasthotrod]

If you can find it, the JBL MS-A1004 amplifier will do everything you're looking to do with your system. It takes low level input via RCA's but comes with a nifty speaker wire to RCA adapter, too. Just flip a switch on the amp and you're good to go. It has built in crossovers so you can make adjustments to what frequencies are passed through to your speakers, and independent level controls to adjust the volume levels, too.

 

If you wanted to run a different amp that cannot take speaker level inputs, then you need to buy a Line Output Converter, or LOC. You can get one for $15~20 on-line.

 

The factory non-Bose HU has four outputs. The front door and dash speakers tie together at some point, but I have no idea where, exactly. I think the chimes only play on the front channels... If so, you might consider using just the rear output from the HU to feed your amp. You would lose the ability to adjust the fader from the dash, but you could also prevent the loud "DING" coming from the speakers.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[MNDaveC]

I have very little experience with this so it may not work well BUT this is what I'm planning for now:

 

-Already installed Kicker CS coax in front doors & am planning on another set for the back doors

 

-Ordered last night the Alpine KTP-445U & these harnesses to hopefully keep from cutting the factory wiring

- Metra 71-2107 http://www.installer.com/item/display_item.php?it=71-2107

- Metra 70-2057 http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/r_42085_Metra_Electronics_70-2057.aspx

 

I'm pretty sure the front door and dash are on the same channel. My may concern right now is the volume of the doors chimes.

Good info ... it looks like those harnesses include 2 connection plugs, do you expect you'll need both?

 

Take some pics of your install please! and let me know where you tap into power... the 445 only needs 15 amps per the Crutchfield advisor.

[GRN69CHV]

Yes, please document the install. Just to clarify, speakers are 6 x 9" in front doors and 6.5" in the rear? I've got a Rockford R400-4D (http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/details/r400-4d) on the shelf that would really wake up a stock system, but the inline booster would be a much easier install.

[MNDaveC]

Yes, please document the install. Just to clarify, speakers are 6 x 9" in front doors and 6.5" in the rear? I've got a Rockford R400-4D (http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/details/r400-4d) on the shelf that would really wake up a stock system, but the inline booster would be a much easier install.

Yes, that is correct for the Crew Cab.

[MNDaveC]

But you do need a speaker mount adapter for the speakers. You can find the correct ones on Crutchfield if you go through selecting speakers for your vehicle

[woods780]

If you can find it, the JBL MS-A1004 amplifier will do everything you're looking to do with your system. It takes low level input via RCA's but comes with a nifty speaker wire to RCA adapter, too. Just flip a switch on the amp and you're good to go. It has built in crossovers so you can make adjustments to what frequencies are passed through to your speakers, and independent level controls to adjust the volume levels, too.

 

If you wanted to run a different amp that cannot take speaker level inputs, then you need to buy a Line Output Converter, or LOC. You can get one for $15~20 on-line.

 

The factory non-Bose HU has four outputs. The front door and dash speakers tie together at some point, but I have no idea where, exactly. I think the chimes only play on the front channels... If so, you might consider using just the rear output from the HU to feed your amp. You would lose the ability to adjust the fader from the dash, but you could also prevent the loud "DING" coming from the speakers.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

Thanks for the info. Not sure how it would sound with rear channels feeding the front without a processor. I would think it would only be lower frequencies?

 

That JBL amp looks like a better option than the power pack. Maybe I'll pick one up later and use the power pack in the boat.

 

Good info ... it looks like those harnesses include 2 connection plugs, do you expect you'll need both?

 

Take some pics of your install please! and let me know where you tap into power... the 445 only needs 15 amps per the Crutchfield advisor.

 

I should only need the green harness on the amp bypass harness. Hopefully it's the right one...

 

I plan to document it well. Just waiting on parts...maybe this weekend.

 

But you do need a speaker mount adapter for the speakers. You can find the correct ones on Crutchfield if you go through selecting speakers for your vehicle

 

Correct. I ordered my 6.5" coax fronts from Crutchfield and they included the adapters which worked good.

[Fasthotrod]

I thought that the front and rear speakers were full range (20~20kHZ) on the non-Bose systems? If not, that's news to me...

[GRN69CHV]

Any progress? FWIW, I did some exploring on my own truck. Pulled the touch pad /control panel out and tapped into the speaker out lines off the HU with a small speaker taken from a boom box. Sure enough, chimes were there, generated in the head unit. I'm guessing they have it programmed to stay at a constant volume regardless of sound system volume. Short of setting the system up to run off the rear only, any amplification will increase the chime volume. I think you give it a try, system may only need a small boost in power to clean up the sound. Breaking out the CD collection, we were really able to play with the settings. Right now have mine set with about 15-20% cut in bass level and a 15-20% boost in mids and treble which seemed to tighten up the bass, take out the boom, and add some punch. Assuming factory systems are maybe 20-25 watts rms, it might only take a jump to 35-40 watts to make a difference.

[woods780]

I haven't been able to start yet. I finally got a shipping update from onlinecarstereo.com. The harness is supposed to be here on the 31st. If you want it quick I suggest ordering through another site. The other harness is here and I plan on verifying that it will work on Saturday.

[GRN69CHV]

Update. I also ordered both the 71-2107 HU harness and 70-2057 Amp Bypass Harness. Expect them here by weekend. What I am thinking of doing is installing an in-line amp, either the same Alpine KTP-445U or similar CL-D. Probably much like MNDaveC, not looking for huge sound, just a nice gain in clarity. Boost to 45RMS/channel would be more than enough. Three features I want are CL-D, 2 ohm stable and individual frt/rr gain controls. Other thing I am probably going to do is rewire the door speakers, pairing the rear doors with the dash (via wiring in the kick panels). Should allow me to run the gain lower on dash to maintain near-factory settings on the door chimes, etc. while running a little more gain in the front doors (components will work well here).

[GRN69CHV]

I also ordered the 71-2107 and 70-2057 Metra wire harnesses. Wired them together to make a factory integrated harness. Played with it for about an hour with the Alpine 445U compact amp. (Factory stock speakers). Sound quality was greatly improved at both bass and treble when amplified. Running it with the 60hz HPF cleaned up the bass a lot, eliminated the boom, but left plenty of punchy tight bass (let's call it deep mid-bass?). Having the option of a HPF may be worth the install alone regardless of the amount of amplification provided. Sweet spot seems to be 30-50% on HU and amp set at 25-30% gain with the HPF on at 60hz. Greater gain on AMP (up to about 50%) actually sounds a lot better, but the door chimes get annoying loud fast. Not sure what I am going to do going forward. I did not permanent install the amp. Now that the harness is made, it's literally a 10 minute job. Looks like the best spot to install is behind the lower glove box.

 

FWIW, factory radio uses a 20 amp fuse. Non-Bose systems, there is a 30 amp fuse already installed in the right side fuse box, it does not have a lead coming off of it. There is a spot in the harness where a new wire could be tapped into, would just need the right terminal end to insert into the factory plug. For the purpose of the temporary install, I just spliced into the hot/ground leads for the radio as detailed in the install instructions provided by ALPINE. At the lower amp levels that it will probably be ran at, kinda doubt amperage draw will even come close to overloading the factory wiring/20 amp fuse combo.