6.0 Oil

[Cowpie]

On 10/30/2018 at 9:08 AM, Black02Silverado said:

While under warranty I would use what is recommended in the owners manual.  After warranty the 0w-20 will work for daily use and nothing major on the hauling/towing side.

Well 0w20 is fine for a 1500, but we are discussing the 6.0 Vortec in the HD pickups.  That calls for  a 30 weight oil.

 

As for warranty, there is no dealer or OEM that can tell the difference between a 0w30, a 5w30, or a 10w30.   It is not possible on used motor oil.

 

Same is true for the 20 weight stuff.  If I had a motor that called for 20 weight, I would use a 5w20. Fewer VM in it, lower NOACK, and more shear stable.   I don't live in Fairbanks, AK anymore, so the need for a cold flow rating of -35c that a 0wXX oil is made for is not any concern.  A 5w20 that meets a -30c rating would be fine for my needs.  Again, there is no dealer or OEM on the planet that can tell the difference between a 0w20 and a 5w20.

 

Sure, they can tell the difference between a 20 weight and a 30 weight.  

[Black02Silverado]

2 hours ago, Cowpie said:

Well 0w20 is fine for a 1500, but we are discussing the 6.0 Vortec in the HD pickups.  That calls for  a 30 weight oil.

 

As for warranty, there is no dealer or OEM that can tell the difference between a 0w30, a 5w30, or a 10w30.   It is not possible on used motor oil.

 

Same is true for the 20 weight stuff.  If I had a motor that called for 20 weight, I would use a 5w20. Fewer VM in it, lower NOACK, and more shear stable.   I don't live in Fairbanks, AK anymore, so the need for a cold flow rating of -35c that a 0wXX oil is made for is not any concern.  A 5w20 that meets a -30c rating would be fine for my needs.  Again, there is no dealer or OEM on the planet that can tell the difference between a 0w20 and a 5w20.

 

Sure, they can tell the difference between a 20 weight and a 30 weight.  

If he is just using the truck for every day driving and no hauling or towing a 0w-20 will work just fine.   I'm talking using the truck as a car, just to get to point a and point b. 

 

Now my 5.3 calls for a 5w-30 and I'm running a 0w-20.  No problems at all even with 184k miles on it.  I even occasionally tow a 20" 5k trailer an hour each way up and down the interstate. Now this is my vehicle and my experience running this setup.  Not pushing them on anyone just want to make that clear. Since I don't put the miles on the truck, my UOA for this oil will be a while down the road.

 

I understand that they can't tell the difference between 0w-20 and 5w-20.  With how manufactures are trying to get out of warranty work, at least around here it seems that way.  Why give them the chance by going against what is recommended during the warranty period?

 

Again, I'm willing to run a "thin" oil.  I don't see any issues as long as I don't beat the crap out of it and red line it every time I get in it.  Although it does  pull close to 6k rpms occasionally when getting on the interstate to merge with traffic.

[Cowpie]

25 minutes ago, Black02Silverado said:

I understand that they can't tell the difference between 0w-20 and 5w-20.  With how manufactures are trying to get out of warranty work, at least around here it seems that way.  Why give them the chance by going against what is recommended during the warranty period?

 

How would they get out of honoring the warranty? If the motor calls for a 20 weight and one is using a 20 weight, where's the gripe?   Same would be true of one was using a 30 weight oil in a motor that the OEM recommends a 30 weight oil.  The key is.... the operational viscosity (weight) of the oil.  And the number in front of the "w" is not a weight. It is the cold flow rating. As long as the cold flow rating meets the lowest ambient temps that one is encountering, then there is no problem and the OEM has no real leg to stand on in rejecting a warranty claim. 

 

And besides the occasional  internet anecdotal story, there is no appreciable evidence that dealers or OEM's are rejecting warranty claims over oil.  If there was ample evidence of OEM warranty rejection over the variance in cold flow rating the owner was using, one might have a case.  But since there isn't, it is just suffering from an enlarged paranoia gland that would cause anyone to fret over.  It is extremely rare that a dealer shop would even ask the owner what oil they were using.  And even if they did, the owner can just say "a 20 weight" if that is what their engine calls for.  Likewise, "a 30 weight" if that is what their engine calls for.  After that, they can play dumb. 

 

My 2500 calls for a 5w30.  I have a 10w30 syn in it.  Still in warranty and no concerns about a warranty issue.  Again, they can't tell the difference.  Kinda like my wife's 2006 Cadillac CTS.  It calls specifically for a M1 5w30.  All it has gotten is a Pennzoil conventional 10w30.  13 year old car that has had no engine issues, and the 3.6 is notorious for timing chain issues.  

 

You deal Amsoil. Well that is not on the "approved" list of oils from GM.  The case you are making about following OEM recommendation so one doesn't risk warranty should be shutting down your sales volume.   In your argument, you are effectively shooting yourself in the foot.  

Edited December 1, 2018 by Cowpie

[i82much]

I run 5w30 in an old 396, because it was getting 50 psi at hot idle with 15w40 and I use it frequently in cold temps.  But for anything under warranty, I just follow the manual precisely.  I agree a warranty rejection is exceedingly unlikely, but at the same time I think the benefit of using a grade of oil other than OEM specified is, at best, vanishingly small.

[Black02Silverado]

9 hours ago, Cowpie said:

 

How would they get out of honoring the warranty? If the motor calls for a 20 weight and one is using a 20 weight, where's the gripe?   Same would be true of one was using a 30 weight oil in a motor that the OEM recommends a 30 weight oil.  The key is.... the operational viscosity (weight) of the oil.  And the number in front of the "w" is not a weight. It is the cold flow rating. As long as the cold flow rating meets the lowest ambient temps that one is encountering, then there is no problem and the OEM has no real leg to stand on in rejecting a warranty claim. 

 

And besides the occasional  internet anecdotal story, there is no appreciable evidence that dealers or OEM's are rejecting warranty claims over oil.  If there was ample evidence of OEM warranty rejection over the variance in cold flow rating the owner was using, one might have a case.  But since there isn't, it is just suffering from an enlarged paranoia gland that would cause anyone to fret over.  It is extremely rare that a dealer shop would even ask the owner what oil they were using.  And even if they did, the owner can just say "a 20 weight" if that is what their engine calls for.  Likewise, "a 30 weight" if that is what their engine calls for.  After that, they can play dumb. 

 

My 2500 calls for a 5w30.  I have a 10w30 syn in it.  Still in warranty and no concerns about a warranty issue.  Again, they can't tell the difference.  Kinda like my wife's 2006 Cadillac CTS.  It calls specifically for a M1 5w30.  All it has gotten is a Pennzoil conventional 10w30.  13 year old car that has had no engine issues, and the 3.6 is notorious for timing chain issues.  

 

You deal Amsoil. Well that is not on the "approved" list of oils from GM.  The case you are making about following OEM recommendation so one doesn't risk warranty should be shutting down your sales volume.   In your argument, you are effectively shooting yourself in the foot.  

I think I didn't explain myself well or I was miss understood.  I thought one was wanting to us a 20w oil where a 30w oil was spec'ed. 

[Black02Silverado]

9 hours ago, Cowpie said:

 

You deal Amsoil. Well that is not on the "approved" list of oils from GM.  The case you are making about following OEM recommendation so one doesn't risk warranty should be shutting down your sales volume.   In your argument, you are effectively shooting yourself in the foot.  

Just because it isn't on the GM approved list doesn't mean it does not meet/exceed specification.  One has to remember AMSOIL is a small company and to keep cost down they do not pay to have their products put on a manufactures list.  That cost some serious money and any time you tweak the formula you have to pay again to get  retested.  Can you see where GM is raking in the cash here? Plus, would a company such as AMSOIL suggest a product if they knew it didn't meet/exceed a specification?  They would not still be around since 1972.

 

I understand what you are saying and most want to follow the manufactures guidelines.

[Cowpie]

55 minutes ago, Black02Silverado said:

Just because it isn't on the GM approved list doesn't mean it does not meet/exceed specification.  One has to remember AMSOIL is a small company and to keep cost down they do not pay to have their products put on a manufactures list.  That cost some serious money and any time you tweak the formula you have to pay again to get  retested.  Can you see where GM is raking in the cash here? Plus, would a company such as AMSOIL suggest a product if they knew it didn't meet/exceed a specification?  They would not still be around since 1972.

 

I understand what you are saying and most want to follow the manufactures guidelines.

But the point you were making to others was about following OEM recommendations during the warranty period so as to not risk anything.  Yet at the same time, you recommend to others that they use something that the OEM does not recommend or approve of.  Make up your mind.  If you are going to inflate their paranoia gland about sticking with the cold flow and viscosity grade oil the OEM recommends, to be honest about things you also have to stick with only recommending an oil that the OEM has approved. 

 

I don't concern myself with the dexos standard either.  I think it is just GM's way of pushing folks into making sure they use a quality oil and not some bargain basement oil that was meant for a 1980 car in Yugoslavia.   I don't waste any time worrying about if it is a cash cow for GM.  I leave all the  conspiracy stuff to other folks.  Even API SN beats dexos in some categories, as does ILSAC GF-5 standard.   Likewise, dexos exceeds both of these in a couple of areas.  Making all of those standards not the perfect solution, but equally high quality in unique ways.  And if one sticks with the latest industry motor oil specs, even though they are not dexos spec, they will be just fine.   

 

While Amsoil is a good oil, it still isn't on the approved list.  Neither is the Schaeffer oil that I primarily use. And Schaeffer has been at the game longer that any other brand in N. America and mixes up some products even for the big name oil companies like Mobil and Shell.  They don't target the average buyer on the street so they don't feel the need to jump thru the dexos hoop.  I could care less that what I use isn't on the dexos "approved" list.  Many motor oils exceed the dexos specs.  Amsoil (and Schaeffer, to be fair) gets their base stock and additive packages from the same sources as every other brand of oil on the shelf.  They just spec the mix a little different.  Amsoil doesn't make anything, they blend oils, lubes, and greases from what they buy from others.   They buy most of their synthetic base oil from Mobil and they get their add packs primarily from Lubrizol and Infineum.  They mix up a very good product from what they get.

 

But back to the point, don't make folks worry about doing something while in warranty if you are not going to maintain consistency in all that you recommend. That makes it look like you will tout the GM line only when it is convenient for you, and likewise avoid it when it is convenient for you, therefore making you appear to be just another opportunist.

Edited December 1, 2018 by Cowpie

[Black02Silverado]

6 minutes ago, Cowpie said:

But the point you were making to others was about following OEM recommendations during the warranty period so as to not risk anything.  Yet at the same time, you recommend to others that they use something that the OEM does not recommend or approve of.  Make up your mind.  If you are going to inflate their paranoia gland about sticking with the cold flow and viscosity grade oil the OEM recommends, to be honest about things you also have to stick with only recommending an oil that the OEM has approved. 

 

I understand what your saying.  The OP just asked about using an oil he had on hand. Nothing about wanting to use AMSOIL.  I have no knowledge of what brand or such that he has. 

 

Agree to use what the OEM recommends during warranty period if not using AMSOIL products.  If using AMSOIL products then use what AMSOIL recommends during the warranty period.  AMSOIL has their own warranty to cover their products.

 

 

 

[Cowpie]

22 minutes ago, Black02Silverado said:

I understand what your saying.  The OP just asked about using an oil he had on hand. Nothing about wanting to use AMSOIL.  I have no knowledge of what brand or such that he has. 

 

Agree to use what the OEM recommends during warranty period if not using AMSOIL products.  If using AMSOIL products then use what AMSOIL recommends during the warranty period.  AMSOIL has their own warranty to cover their products.

 

 

 

Well, not really.  They use the MM Warranty Act as a shield, and then it will still mean the owner is going to have to ante up for legal representation against the OEM.  We really have no data that proves Amsoil covers motor issue that happen and the OEM denies the warranty claim.  Amsoil is really into marketing and one has to read between the lines, as it were, to see what they really are covering.   I don't lose any sleep over the issue.    But until I see actual documented evidence ( more than one) of Amsoil covering a denied warranty claim that the OEM says is oil related, then I really don't put a lot of stock in Amsoil's marketing claims about warranties.

[Black02Silverado]

9 minutes ago, Cowpie said:

Well, not really.  They use the MM Warranty Act as a shield, and then it will still mean the owner is going to have to ante up for legal representation against the OEM.  We really have no data that proves Amsoil covers motor issue that happen and the OEM denies the warranty claim.  Amsoil is really into marketing and one has to read between the lines, as it were, to see what they really are covering.   I don't lose any sleep over the issue.    But until I see actual documented evidence ( more than one) of Amsoil covering a denied warranty claim that the OEM says is oil related, then I really don't put a lot of stock in Amsoil's marketing claims about warranties.

I would say there isn't any issues with AMSOIL and their products, same with Schaeffer's.  Otherwise they would no longer be in business.  The internet would make sure of that. 

 

We also probably don't see any data on oil related issues because their basically isn't any.  There again, it would be all over the internet, especially bitog. At least i would think so.  We know how well bad news travels these days.

[Cowpie]

35 minutes ago, Black02Silverado said:

I would say there isn't any issues with AMSOIL and their products, same with Schaeffer's.  Otherwise they would no longer be in business.  The internet would make sure of that. 

 

We also probably don't see any data on oil related issues because their basically isn't any.  There again, it would be all over the internet, especially bitog. At least i would think so.  We know how well bad news travels these days.

And that goes to my point... if one uses a modern motor oil that meets the latest industry standard specifications, one is going to be just fine.  Whether it is Amsoil, Schaeffer, Valvoline, etc, no matter the brand, if there is a dispute about the oil and the OEM denies a warranty claim because of it, the owner is going to have to obtain legal counsel to fight it.   But it never happens in all but the most extreme situations where goofy stuff like the owner never changing the oil for 50,000 miles or using Wesson vegetable oil in the motor.   I have worked on and owned both personal and commercial vehicles longer than Amsoil has been selling oil and I have never seen a OEM deny a warranty because of oil except in the most extreme and bizarre of cases like mentioned.   No need for the average owner to get all worked up over motor oil. 

 

And on point, putting in a 20 weight in a pickup that normally calls for a 30 weight, or vice versa, is not going to be the death of that motor except in the most extreme of situations.  Motors for decades have been made to operate fine on a range of oils, not just one.  The Government requires the OEM to recommend the oil that they did the government EPA testing of the vehicle model with.  And again, the chance of a situation where there would be a conflict with the OEM is extremely remote.  

[Black02Silverado]

29 minutes ago, Cowpie said:

And that goes to my point... if one uses a modern motor oil that meets the latest industry standard specifications, one is going to be just fine.  Whether it is Amsoil, Schaeffer, Valvoline, etc, no matter the brand, if there is a dispute about the oil and the OEM denies a warranty claim because of it, the owner is going to have to obtain legal counsel to fight it.   But it never happens in all but the most extreme situations where goofy stuff like the owner never changing the oil for 50,000 miles or using Wesson vegetable oil in the motor.   I have worked on and owned both personal and commercial vehicles longer than Amsoil has been selling oil and I have never seen a OEM deny a warranty because of oil except in the most extreme and bizarre of cases like mentioned.   No need for the average owner to get all worked up over motor oil. 

 

And on point, putting in a 20 weight in a pickup that normally calls for a 30 weight, or vice versa, is not going to be the death of that motor except in the most extreme of situations.  Motors for decades have been made to operate fine on a range of oils, not just one.  The Government requires the OEM to recommend the oil that they did the government EPA testing of the vehicle model with.  And again, the chance of a situation where there would be a conflict with the OEM is extremely remote.  

Totally agree.

[mikedeezxxx]

Mobile 1 5W 30. That’s what’s suggested for 6.0L. For anyone concerned about warranty service, just use what they want and you won’t have to worry about it. I have a 2008 Trailblazer SS w LS2 6.0L. I’ve only ever ran Mobile 1 5W30.


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[i82much]

Follow the manual.  The juice ain't worth the squeeze here.

[SierraHD17]

I love all this useless debate.  I would really like to see someone comment where they lost a LS because of the oil they used in their 3000 or 5000 mile intervals.... yep... crickets.

Edited December 2, 2018 by SierraHD17