Too high tech

[Grumpy Bear]

3 hours ago, j-ten-ner said:

Disrespect and wrong judgment ended in natural selection.

No nanny would have saved her. One needs driving skills to regain control over the vehicle after loosing it @ 100mph.

I'm sure this is what happened.

 

Proper driver education, e.g. mandatory driving schools. Make people earn their DL. And then they will appreciate the new technology as an aid and not as a given insurance.

 

so long

j-ten-ner

Well said! 

[heymrdjCW]

This is why there are so many fat people in America, everything is done for them. Sure, that’s great to come up with something that’ll help things become more convenient but that’s why there are so many stupid people, what’s the point of even focusing and trying to learn when it’s being looked up for you, our phones do all the thinking for us too.  
Technology is a great thing, believe me, I’m surrounded by it but there’s got to be a line drawn between turning people into vegetables having answers looked up for them and losing the ability to think for themselves.
 
Tesla automakers, perfect example: you think those people would still be alive today if it weren’t for technology just being thrown at them, enticing the normally alert driver, over stepping the boundaries of what’s good for me MUST be good for EVERYONE!
 
Our kids today, they snap and Instagram (sure I’m missing more) rather than picking up the phone and speaking, building communication skills, nope, future introverts and concubines, easily brainwashed by people with communication skills or just the media. I see this everywhere I go, kids texting each other while sitting right next to each other. I’ve been rear ended three times as well as people weaving into my lane because they’re texting.
 
I do LOVE the technology that I can control and that makes me money [emoji6]
 
 
Sent from Above
 
 

We’ve been doing this for a century now. If I pulled you up to a horse this moment, could you bridle and saddle it professionally perfect? No google, I mean right this instant be done in under 5 minutes. How about weighing powder down to 2 grains in your hand and build a bullet with a press? Again under 5 minutes? These skills used to be vital, they no longer are.

People tend to think highly of the skills they have today and call the next generation lazy. Truth is, the ones throwing shade are already the laziest generation to live full lives.

[Enough]

I have to agree that the technology has outpaced the training on the dealer level. My 2018 has spent 2 separate weeks at the dealership for a no start condition. They cannot diagnose the issue other than disconnecting and re-connecting every electrical component they find and hope for resolution.

 

The first time the truck went down at 243 miles and had to be towed in. The second time it went down around 3,800 miles and I farted around enough to get it in limp mode and drove it to the dealer, actually hoping for a catastrophic failure. No such luck darn it !!

 

99.9 percent of the time the truck runs great. All stock burning regular gas at 23.5 MPG for the 58 mile round trip to and from work. Big bonus is they forgot to add the "Chevy Shake" to this truck !

 

But the clock is ticking and I am confident that the truck will shut down again. Maybe I will be able to trick it in to starting, maybe not. And once again the dealership will not be able to find the fault. Too much tech and only a minor stumble in amperage in some minute component will take it out. When it happens again and they get it running, the for sale sign will go in the window.

 

It will be replaced with one of those old gas sucking trucks where you could actually identify the few components under the hood. Where if you have gas and spark it will get you down the road.

 

I enjoy the comfort and convenience of my 2018 Silverado. I just don't trust it's dependability.

[Mikedfw]

9 hours ago, j-ten-ner said:

Disrespect and wrong judgment ended in natural selection.

No nanny would have saved her. One needs driving skills to regain control over the vehicle after loosing it @ 100mph.

I'm sure this is what happened.

 

Proper driver education, e.g. mandatory driving schools. Make people earn their DL. And then they will appreciate the new technology as an aid and not as a given insurance.

 

so long

j-ten-ner

What a horribly cold hearted assessment for something you only know a very small amount of details about.  

 

First, teenagers do stupid stuff.  I did as a teen. You did too. Just because our mistakes weren't fatal doesn't mean it's just "natural selection" and should be dismissed as a disrespectful person. You dont know anything about this person or the argument. 

 

And while "you're sure" it happened the way you think, being that I actually worked on it and shared very few details about it here, I'll go with my knowledge on it.  The accident did involve her losing control, but this was more due to her not reacting quickly enough because of her speed. Her vehicle wasn't all over the road.  If this safety tech was on her vehicle it absolutely could have made a difference.

 

Regardless, I'm not going to chalk it up to natural selection or act like she deserved it because as a teenager she made a stupid decision. 

 

And I never said this tech was to take over for people paying attention, but it definitely helps.  The only opposition I've heard to this is that it makes people lazy and apparently they deserve it if they get in an accident. It's a stupid and heartless argument with no basis in fact. 

[j-ten-ner]

4 hours ago, Mikedfw said:

What a horribly cold hearted assessment for something you only know a very small amount of details about.  

 

First, teenagers do stupid stuff.  I did as a teen. You did too. Just because our mistakes weren't fatal doesn't mean it's just "natural selection" and should be dismissed as a disrespectful person. You dont know anything about this person or the argument. 

 

And while "you're sure" it happened the way you think, being that I actually worked on it and shared very few details about it here, I'll go with my knowledge on it.  The accident did involve her losing control, but this was more due to her not reacting quickly enough because of her speed. Her vehicle wasn't all over the road.  If this safety tech was on her vehicle it absolutely could have made a difference.

 

Regardless, I'm not going to chalk it up to natural selection or act like she deserved it because as a teenager she made a stupid decision. 

 

And I never said this tech was to take over for people paying attention, but it definitely helps.  The only opposition I've heard to this is that it makes people lazy and apparently they deserve it if they get in an accident. It's a stupid and heartless argument with no basis in fact. 

I didn't say that she deserved it. Yes, it sounds cold blooded but it is what it is. No need to sugar coat it.

I even start laughing when I hear in the news that "severe weather and road conditions were the cause of the accident". Weather and road conditions don't cause accidents. It's people who disregard the conditions, either because of the lack of experience, ignorance and overestimation of one's own capabilities.

 

so long

j-ten-ner

[Mikedfw]

1 hour ago, j-ten-ner said:

I didn't say that she deserved it. Yes, it sounds cold blooded but it is what it is. No need to sugar coat it.

I even start laughing when I hear in the news that "severe weather and road conditions were the cause of the accident". Weather and road conditions don't cause accidents. It's people who disregard the conditions, either because of the lack of experience, ignorance and overestimation of one's own capabilities.

 

so long

j-ten-ner

Because you dont ever make mistakes?  Please. Ignoring the fact that you have a really crappy perspective, I'll give you another example where this technology can help.

 

A man high on meth was driving a big pick up truck on the highway at approximately 90 mph.  Ahead of him, the traffic was completely stopped. He never once braked and his vehicle had no automatic emergency braking. 

 

The result is that when he rear ended the stationary sedan belonging to a woman that was doing absolutely nothing wrong was that his vehicle basically shaved off the entire top of her vehicle and killed her. His vehicle suffered little damage and he had minor injuries. 

 

If his vehicle had this technology it could have slowed down enough to save the innocent womans life and maybe avoid the collision entirely.  I guess this was natural selection too because she didn't purchase a larger vehicle? 

 

 

[j-ten-ner]

6 hours ago, Mikedfw said:

...Because you dont ever make mistakes? ...

Yes I do. But I don't blame the weather-man for it.

6 hours ago, Mikedfw said:

... I guess this was natural selection too because she didn't purchase a larger vehicle? ...

If you say so.

 

so long

j-ten-ner

 

[Grumpy Bear]

8 hours ago, Mikedfw said:

Because you dont ever make mistakes?  Please. Ignoring the fact that you have a really crappy perspective, I'll give you another example where this technology can help.

 

A man high on meth was driving a big pick up truck on the highway at approximately 90 mph.  Ahead of him, the traffic was completely stopped. He never once braked and his vehicle had no automatic emergency braking. 

 

The result is that when he rear ended the stationary sedan belonging to a woman that was doing absolutely nothing wrong was that his vehicle basically shaved off the entire top of her vehicle and killed her. His vehicle suffered little damage and he had minor injuries. 

 

If his vehicle had this technology it could have slowed down enough to save the innocent womans life and maybe avoid the collision entirely.  I guess this was natural selection too because she didn't purchase a larger vehicle? 

 

 

You don't seem to understand the difference between "error" and "disregard" and treat them equally. 

 

An old proverb notes: 

 

A sagacious man, seeing an evil, gets under cover;

simpletons, going ahead, pay the penalty.

 

I use to live in Salt Lake. Every year about this time there is a 20 to 70 car pile up on the North Bound 15 where a hot spring causes a fog so thick you can't see the front of your own hood. Tech isn't the answer is it? Avoidance is. People drive into this fog at 70 mph nose to tail and every year they cry somebody should do something. Yes they should. Stop being foolish enough to believe it won't happen to you.

 

Your meth head example while sad is also an old saying. King Solomon:  

 

I returned to see under the sun that the swift do not have the race, nor the mighty ones the battle, nor do the wise also have the food, nor do the understanding ones also have the riches, nor do even those having knowledge have the favor; because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.

 

All might, all wisdom, all swiftness, all understanding, all riches of this earth can not prevent time and unforeseen occurrence.

 

It WILL befall them ALL. 

 

I now live near Chicago where drive by shootings are sadly pretty common place. The innocent get 'clipped' with the guilty all the time and yet no one is screaming that we should all be fitting up with full ballistic gear.

 

Am I being a defeatist? No...I'm pragmatic. Be a wise man. Look ahead. Do what is practical the best you can. You can't bubble wrap tight enough to prevent time and unforeseen occurrence. 

 

 

 

[diyer2]

Off topic but,

Chicago is a good example of how gun control doesn't work IMO.

 

[Daverado]

On 11/1/2019 at 1:08 PM, TXGREEK said:

This is why there are so many fat people in America, everything is done for them.

 

I'm pretty sure diet and exercise are why there are so many fat people in America honestly.

 

Both of which are still entirely possible regardless of whether everything is done for them or not.

 

The issue is culture and discipline.  Plenty of other first-world countries have just as many freedoms

(even more, really) and conveniences in life and do not have America's obesity problem.

[Mikedfw]

22 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

You don't seem to understand the difference between "error" and "disregard" and treat them equally. 

 

An old proverb notes: 

 

A sagacious man, seeing an evil, gets under cover;

simpletons, going ahead, pay the penalty.

 

I use to live in Salt Lake. Every year about this time there is a 20 to 70 car pile up on the North Bound 15 where a hot spring causes a fog so thick you can't see the front of your own hood. Tech isn't the answer is it? Avoidance is. People drive into this fog at 70 mph nose to tail and every year they cry somebody should do something. Yes they should. Stop being foolish enough to believe it won't happen to you.

 

Your meth head example while sad is also an old saying. King Solomon:  

 

I returned to see under the sun that the swift do not have the race, nor the mighty ones the battle, nor do the wise also have the food, nor do the understanding ones also have the riches, nor do even those having knowledge have the favor; because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.

 

All might, all wisdom, all swiftness, all understanding, all riches of this earth can not prevent time and unforeseen occurrence.

 

It WILL befall them ALL. 

 

I now live near Chicago where drive by shootings are sadly pretty common place. The innocent get 'clipped' with the guilty all the time and yet no one is screaming that we should all be fitting up with full ballistic gear.

 

Am I being a defeatist? No...I'm pragmatic. Be a wise man. Look ahead. Do what is practical the best you can. You can't bubble wrap tight enough to prevent time and unforeseen occurrence. 

 

 

 

I guess I need to clarify something.  I'm not talking about responsibility.  Sometimes people are responsible for their accidents sometimes they are not.  

 

Regarding the use of this technology, it doesn't really matter. The point is that it can save people's lives. In some cases it can save the life of the person making the mistake, or as in the example I gave with the methed out driver, save the life of an innocent person that did absolutely nothing wrong. 

 

You talk about innocent people dying in drive by shootings (which isn't the same) and use the fact that people dont make a big deal out of that as justification for innocent people dying from accidents that could easily be lessened or prevented by inexpensive, readily available technology. And you quote scripture to try and justify it as well.

 

I guess I just dont think people should have to die for mistakes that can be prevented because they are irresponsible or because they are simply human and make a mistake. This doesn't mean there shouldnt be any consequences.  If someone is routinely causing problems or breaking the law, take their license, put them in jail, whatever is relevant in each particular case, but doesn't mean we shouldn't lessen their impact, or in many cases, prevent them from hurting or killing other people. 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, Mikedfw said:

I guess I need to clarify something.  I'm not talking about responsibility.  Sometimes people are responsible for their accidents sometimes they are not.  

 

Regarding the use of this technology, it doesn't really matter. The point is that it can save people's lives. In some cases it can save the life of the person making the mistake, or as in the example I gave with the methed out driver, save the life of an innocent person that did absolutely nothing wrong. 

 

You talk about innocent people dying in drive by shootings (which isn't the same) and use the fact that people dont make a big deal out of that as justification for innocent people dying from accidents that could easily be lessened or prevented by inexpensive, readily available technology. And you quote scripture to try and justify it as well.

 

I guess I just dont think people should have to die for mistakes that can be prevented because they are irresponsible or because they are simply human and make a mistake. This doesn't mean there shouldnt be any consequences.  If someone is routinely causing problems or breaking the law, take their license, put them in jail, whatever is relevant in each particular case, but doesn't mean we shouldn't lessen their impact, or in many cases, prevent them from hurting or killing other people. 

 

 

Scripture was not justification. I was explanation and it wasn't my explanation. Look up. I didn't write it, I just quoted it.  

 

That said I see your point, to a point. But you need to see reality as well. As a long time motorcycle guy I lived well before helmet laws and even seat belts for that matter. Both of these devices can and have saved lives. That is not even a question. So yes tech can and does save lives and limit property damage.

 

But here is also what happens. You put a helmet on a rider and his speed automatically increases. He takes more risk riding. You give him a plated Kevlar racing suit and now he doing 200 mph on his Suzy Hayabusa on public streets. This isn't isolated. It is human nature to risk more when protected more. This stuff makes people feel like Superman and they rely on it to be total morons. It's how people fall into the Grand Canyon climbing the rail for a selfie. Because of the human tendency to risk proportionally to perceived safety there is a clamor of driverless transport. You certainly must see this! 

 

I've also seen technology take life or cause injury. My helmet broke my neck when I was young. Kept my melon without mark. My walking is a testament to the doctor not the helmet. My friend Wayne died a few years ago when a woman made a left turn in front of him on his motorcycle. He was wearing his helmet. Dead on impact of the crown of his head into the side of her Jeep. Not only broke his neck but liquified his brain.

 

Here's the thing. If he would have been in a car with forward crash braking he would have still hit her. Given his speed likely died. Technology can not and will never trump physics. Hit the brakes as hard as you like and if there isn't enough room, there isn't enough room period. 

 

Thus: because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.

 

There is no win in this. That is reality. 

[heymrdjCW]

Scripture was not justification. I was explanation and it wasn't my explanation. Look up. I didn't write it, I just quoted it.  
 
That said I see your point, to a point. But you need to see reality as well. As a long time motorcycle guy I lived well before helmet laws and even seat belts for that matter. Both of these devices can and have saved lives. That is not even a question. So yes tech can and does save lives and limit property damage.
 
But here is also what happens. You put a helmet on a rider and his speed automatically increases. He takes more risk riding. You give him a plated Kevlar racing suit and now he doing 200 mph on his Suzy Hayabusa on public streets. This isn't isolated. It is human nature to risk more when protected more. This stuff makes people feel like Superman and they rely on it to be total morons. It's how people fall into the Grand Canyon climbing the rail for a selfie. Because of the human tendency to risk proportionally to perceived safety there is a clamor of driverless transport. You certainly must see this! 
 
I've also seen technology take life or cause injury. My helmet broke my neck when I was young. Kept my melon without mark. My walking is a testament to the doctor not the helmet. My friend Wayne died a few years ago when a woman made a left turn in front of him on his motorcycle. He was wearing his helmet. Dead on impact of the crown of his head into the side of her Jeep. Not only broke his neck but liquified his brain.
 
Here's the thing. If he would have been in a car with forward crash braking he would have still hit her. Given his speed likely died. Technology can not and will never trump physics. Hit the brakes as hard as you like and if there isn't enough room, there isn't enough room period. 
 
Thus: because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.
 
There is no win in this. That is reality. 

Interesting. I’ve never increased my speed due to wearing a seat belt. I’ve never swerved wildly wearing a helmet. I’ve never swung chainsawed a lot over my knee thinking that my chaps will protect a miss. Do sane humans really not contemplate physics. NEVER in my life have I talked to an ordinary human being and then tell me they aren’t nervous about an accident because there’s enough safety to prevent it. Even linemen use probes and grounders on verified disconnected lines.

Your main example, falling at the GC. I was recently there again. No one says this nonsense, NO ONE. They climb the rail because it offers a more amazing vantage point. No normal person says “this rail protects me if I climb over it.” Circumventing safety doesn’t allow safety to work, amazing discovery! Sweet Jesus...

[KARNUT]

Football is a good example. More tec isn’t the complete answer. Limit the weight of the players my be the answer. Somethings carry risks. I grew up riding dirt bikes. Got one for the road shortly after getting my license. My uncle a bike rider informed me, you will have some kind of mishap riding. It comes with the territory. I determined I wasn’t responsible enough to ride. That’s called personal responsibility.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[j-ten-ner]

I think that we can all agree that nobody deserves to die and that modern technology CAN save life's.

 

But...The best example is running lights. If there is now automatic switch to turn them on, they drive w/o lights and don't even know it.

Or 4x4. Many people don't understand that 4x4 can get you up to speed faster, but it doesn't make you stop faster.

ABS is a great feature, IF you know the limits and can act accordingly.

Lane departure warning....don't even get me started, it's the most useless feature ever.

Front collision warning/breaking....I've seen a guy gunning his car, pulling out behind a semi into the right lane and slammed into a stranded car with innocent people in it. No technology available as of today would have prevented this.

 

Bottom line is that those nanny's give people a wrong sense of safety because they put all their fate in it.

Proper driver education is the key. Not technology. Technology is only an aid for the educated (and skilled) driver.

 

so long

j-ten-ner