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you are right, but these are always fun comparisons as long as everybody is civil.  Lots of misconceptions by both camps.  The way I see it is the diesel will always cost more and the gas engine doesn

For some, trucks are toys. For some, trucks are tools.   If it's a tool, it needs to be the one that does the job the best. If it's a toy, it should be the one that provides the mo

Very true.  Although they are pretty reliable.  But I would never own a diesel without a power train warranty, also I dont own anything more 4-5 years,  send em down the road before they start causing

27 minutes ago, CaptainMorganNC said:

I have been watching many reviews of gas vs diesel and they almost always bring up that diesels cost more to own.  They do not go into much detail.  What are some quick examples if you don't mind sharing.

Diesel exhaust fluid,  fairly expensive fuel filter that has to be changed frequently,  using a diesel fuel additive such as Stanadyne,  oil changes cost more due to higher oil capacity,  and higher cost of diesel fuel at the pump.    biggest cost, I believe is laying out the initial $10,000 for the diesel engine package itself.  You can buy a lot of unleaded fuel for $10,000.   I;ve had diesel pickups for the past 21 years.  I went back to a gasser.  I now have a 2020 GMC Sierra 2500  CCSB  6.6 gas. and love it.  Never thought I would do that.   Modern diesels with their finicky emissions systems have been a pain.   I got stranded on two occasions while pulling my camper,  1,000 miles from home.  All emissions related.  Not fun.  Diesels are better pullers but the modern gassers are no slouches either.  

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21 minutes ago, artie2908 said:

Diesel exhaust fluid,  fairly expensive fuel filter that has to be changed frequently,  using a diesel fuel additive such as Stanadyne,  oil changes cost more due to higher oil capacity,  and higher cost of diesel fuel at the pump.    biggest cost, I believe is laying out the initial $10,000 for the diesel engine package itself.  You can buy a lot of unleaded fuel for $10,000.   I;ve had diesel pickups for the past 21 years.  I went back to a gasser.  I now have a 2020 GMC Sierra 2500  CCSB  6.6 gas. and love it.  Never thought I would do that.   Modern diesels with their finicky emissions systems have been a pain.   I got stranded on two occasions while pulling my camper,  1,000 miles from home.  All emissions related.  Not fun.  Diesels are better pullers but the modern gassers are no slouches either.  

Thanks. I went with gas and will be pulling 8k lbs travel trailer in the mountains.  I was on the fence but couldn't convince myself to put down the extra $10k for the diesel.  Hoping I didn't make a mistake.

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I tow a 37’ camper all in I guess I’m approaching 10k. Tows like a dream with the gas motor. I’m very happy. 

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10 hours ago, CaptainMorganNC said:

Thanks. I went with gas and will be pulling 8k lbs travel trailer in the mountains.  I was on the fence but couldn't convince myself to put down the extra $10k for the diesel.  Hoping I didn't make a mistake.

I'm on the fence on how to respond given you already bought the gas.  Ok..so the 6.6 gas will get it done, no mistake made!   BUT If I were towing 8k in the mountains, I'd spend the extra for the Dmax, it is a flat out towing beast!  Flatland towing would leave more room for debate.

 

My personal truck is a 2020 HC 3500 Dmax but also have 2020 gas HD's for my business.  I have had issues on both trucks.  The duramax needed a def tank replaced that left me w/o a truck for 3 weeks.  The funny thing is we've had more issue with the gas trucks so far.  One has had two high pressure fuel pumps replaced as well as an electrical gremlin.  The other had a tranny cooler line pop off and destroyed the transmission (truck was just out of warranty). 

 

Bottom line it really depends on what you want, both good trucks that will handle whatever you need them too.  Now if they offered a 10spd with the gas motor, that might get me interested.

 

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Heres the deal,  you will never save money with a diesel, bottom line anybody else tells you otherwise they arent telling the truth.  But there are a few caveats.  1.  Commerical usage or if you are high mileage, you may get to the point where you break even or potentially pull ahead,  but you are talking hundreds of thousands of miles or hours to get there.  2.  Its like anything else, you are buying capability,  and the other bottom line is that diesel motor will out haul that gas motor any day any time.

 

As to some cost

 

1.  DEF fluid probably an added 100-200 bucks a years

 

2. Oil Changes  dealers charge anywhere from 120-200 bucks an oil change vs 50ish,  also need fuel filters yearly at another 30-40 bucks

 

3.  Initial cost of the engine is 10k more. 

 

4.  Diesel fuel cost on average 20 cents more a gallon, some places more some less,  around here its closer to 30 cents more.  Although you will likely get 20-30% better MPG with diesel maybe more.  Ive done calculations here at 15k miles a year  between the gas engine and diesel, and with the better MPG of diesel your literally at like 10-15  years maybe more on breaking even with point number 3, with an average 15k miles a year.   Could speed up that break even point if you live somewhere where diesel is the same or cheaper or haul a ton of miles, but the bottom line is you will probably never see that break even point

 

The only diesel I could a break even point to make sense was the dodge eco diesel in the half ton,  engine was only a 3-4k upgrade and the mileage bump made it so the break even point was like 4 years.  But with that said that motor was less capable than many gas engines on the market, so really didnt make sense unless you were crusing long miles in the truck.

 

4a. Diesel cost more up front, but you will hold value better at trade or selling time, so you will get some of that back.  4-5 year old diesels still command 40k plus and you simply wouldnt see that in gas truck.

 

5.  Break fix maintenance will be more as well.  Personally I would never own a diesel without some sort of warranty on the power train.

 

With this all being said I am currently in a gas truck and just ordered a diesel 2500, and have owned diesels in the past.  Nothing pulls like a diesel it just doesn't.  And dont forget throwing a big load on a gas engine and getting 10mpg or sometimes less, sucks having to shell out at that pump at an already expensive trip.   Theres hauling with gas and RPM, slowing down etc,  where the diesel will just keep going. 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, CRApex said:

I'm on the fence on how to respond given you already bought the gas.  Ok..so the 6.6 gas will get it done, no mistake made!   BUT If I were towing 8k in the mountains, I'd spend the extra for the Dmax, it is a flat out towing beast!  Flatland towing would leave more room for debate.

 

My personal truck is a 2020 HC 3500 Dmax but also have 2020 gas HD's for my business.  I have had issues on both trucks.  The duramax needed a def tank replaced that left me w/o a truck for 3 weeks.  The funny thing is we've had more issue with the gas trucks so far.  One has had two high pressure fuel pumps replaced as well as an electrical gremlin.  The other had a tranny cooler line pop off and destroyed the transmission (truck was just out of warranty). 

 

Bottom line it really depends on what you want, both good trucks that will handle whatever you need them too.  Now if they offered a 10spd with the gas motor, that might get me interested.

 

Sorry to hear you had issues with both trucks.  I agree both trucks will get the job done.  I think as a whole, the diesels are more problematic.  I replaced (2) DEF tanks, and (3) nitrogen sensors with my last truck.   Now add in the potential for CP4 injector pump problems  destroying your fuel injection system and the EGR valve  ($1,000 repair) it kinda makes you a little apprehensive.  I think the fact that you went with a gasser for your business truck speaks volumes.   I would have gone the same route and saved myself $10,000 in the process, along with much cheaper fuel and maintenance.   Even with the added costs and more expensive problems, I still like diesels.  Just hope they would straighten out the emissions.    but right now, IMHO,  gassers are the way to go .... unless you pull heavy and frequently.   The gassers get it done. 

I used to pull a 11,000 5th wheel with my diesels.   I now tow a 7,0000 bumper pull trailer.   The mileage difference really surprised me.     Pulling that 7,000 trailer on average I got  12. to 13 Mpg. with diesel.     with my gasser pulling the same trailer   10.5  to 11.0 not a world of difference  there.       I thought I would miss the exhaust brake but not that much.    The gasser trans in the tow/haul mode is pretty good. 

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19 minutes ago, artie2908 said:

Sorry to hear you had issues with both trucks.  I agree both trucks will get the job done.  I think as a whole, the diesels are more problematic.  I replaced (2) DEF tanks, and (3) nitrogen sensors with my last truck.   Now add in the potential for CP4 injector pump problems  destroying your fuel injection system and the EGR valve  ($1,000 repair) it kinda makes you a little apprehensive.  I think the fact that you went with a gasser for your business truck speaks volumes.   I would have gone the same route and saved myself $10,000 in the process, along with much cheaper fuel and maintenance.   Even with the added costs and more expensive problems, I still like diesels.  Just hope they would straighten out the emissions.    but right now, IMHO,  gassers are the way to go .... unless you pull heavy and frequently.   The gassers get it done. 

I used to pull a 11,000 5th wheel with my diesels.   I now tow a 7,0000 bumper pull trailer.   The mileage difference really surprised me.     Pulling that 7,000 trailer on average I got  12. to 13 Mpg. with diesel.     with my gasser pulling the same trailer   10.5  to 11.0 not a world of difference  there.       I thought I would miss the exhaust brake but not that much.    The gasser trans in the tow/haul mode is pretty good. 

When my diesel was down, i drove the gas truck and it was significantly more thirsty while towing.  I pull the same trailer many weekends to my cabin and the gas truck barely made it, while my Duramax would still have over half a tank..nothing scientific just real world experience,  Like I was saying as a response to the original post, IMO if towing 8k in the mountains, I’d buy the diesel and in that scenario (mountain towing) you would miss the exhaust brake.  The diesel is much quieter and hums along barely breaking a sweat, the gasser felt like it was really working hard..high revs, noticeable shifting etc..BUT it did get the job done. 

 

The issue my Dmax had was an electrical problem with DEF tank heater, yes emissions related, but more of a supplier issue with the def tank change,  This is the 1st Duramax that I’ve had an issue with so hopefully it will be good to go now.   I agree though, certainly more to go wrong with the diesel.  That and the initial cost of the truck is why we went for gas trucks.  Again offer a 10spd with the gas and I’m interested.

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47 minutes ago, CRApex said:

When my diesel was down, i drove the gas truck and it was significantly more thirsty while towing.  I pull the same trailer many weekends to my cabin and the gas truck barely made it, while my Duramax would still have over half a tank..nothing scientific just real world experience,  Like I was saying as a response to the original post, IMO if towing 8k in the mountains, I’d buy the diesel and in that scenario (mountain towing) you would miss the exhaust brake.  The diesel is much quieter and hums along barely breaking a sweat, the gasser felt like it was really working hard..high revs, noticeable shifting etc..BUT it did get the job done. 

 

The issue my Dmax had was an electrical problem with DEF tank heater, yes emissions related, but more of a supplier issue with the def tank change,  This is the 1st Duramax that I’ve had an issue with so hopefully it will be good to go now.   I agree though, certainly more to go wrong with the diesel.  That and the initial cost of the truck is why we went for gas trucks.  Again offer a 10spd with the gas and I’m interested.

The gas motor is more than enough.  But TBH I think some people dont know the difference unless they have owned the two.

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17 hours ago, CaptainMorganNC said:

Thanks. I went with gas and will be pulling 8k lbs travel trailer in the mountains.  I was on the fence but couldn't convince myself to put down the extra $10k for the diesel.  Hoping I didn't make a mistake.

I'm going to pull similar loads and I ordered gas as well.  I could afford diesel if I wanted it.  It was an easy decision for me after I drove both and all factors that mattered to me were considered.  I don't think you'll regret your decision unless you later decide to get a 12K plus trailer and tow it a lot.   My new truck should arrive late next week. 

 

 

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12 hours ago, i82much said:

i think it is more a question of whether you get burned by a big repair bill, which is far more likely with a diesel.

Very true.  Although they are pretty reliable.  But I would never own a diesel without a power train warranty, also I dont own anything more 4-5 years,  send em down the road before they start causing me problems.

Edited by nards444
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i love diesels and the duramax. however, all the issues with them has me looking to go back to gas. the emission issues are ridiculous. I  don't understand after all these years of using DEF and having the systems they have, how there are still issues. The wiring shorting out because the DEF heater is drawing too much current is obsurd. Come on GM engineers. My RAMs with DEF never had any issues. 

I only tow 7500#s occasionally. Next truck will be gas

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Does the 6.6 gas engine require premium fuel like the 6.2? On our trips towing last summer through CA, OR, NV, UT and ID the premium fuel required for my 6.2 was the most expensive at every stop, I looked. From memory diesel was around the price of regular unleaded which was often  $.50 a gallon less than the premium I was buying. Also, the direct injection gas engine needs frequent intake valve cleaning. You can do it yourself for less than $15 or pay over $100 at the dealership. I do it myself now before each oil change. An oil catch can might help too. 

 

I also noticed that no one mentioned resale value. You will definitely make up a nice chunk of the $10k diesel premium when selling/trading in down the road. Resale value and fuel economy together can certainly reduce the cost gap. Unfortunately, the emissions crap have made diesels less reliable and expensive to repair. The Ford 7.3 gas seems like it might be a good way to go since it's port injected and runs on regular unleaded. I'm shopping for an HD currently. I've always wanted a diesel but I'm still not sure.

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